Copley Place Expansion and Tower | Back Bay
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atlantaden
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
What exactly is the income range for someone to qualify for one of the affordable units? With all the new housing construction combined with the city affordable housing requirement, there must have been well over a thousand new residential units built in the past few years which is the equivalent to several large buildings of affordable housing. Not too shabby.
What exactly is the income range for someone to qualify for one of the affordable units? With all the new housing construction combined with the city affordable housing requirement, there must have been well over a thousand new residential units built in the past few years which is the equivalent to several large buildings of affordable housing. Not too shabby.
dshoost88
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
The city dictates what the affordable housing rates will be in these new projects. It's based on a percent of annual area median income. I don't remember off hand (surely there's an affordable housing expert in our midst on these forums), but who lives in these units is determined by a housing lottery and they pay the affordable rate for up to 50 years.
I have to say for a meeting about a technical modification to the building plans that could have let out after 5 minutes, I was very annoyed by the 1 hour of affordable housing questions that followed. There were residents contradicting themselves on multiple occasions just to make a fuss, or they were selectively hearing what information the developer was sharing to address their concerns. The developer was right, though: you'd be hard pressed to find another development project in Boston that offers that amount and diversity of public benefits as the Copley Place Tower does.
The city dictates what the affordable housing rates will be in these new projects. It's based on a percent of annual area median income. I don't remember off hand (surely there's an affordable housing expert in our midst on these forums), but who lives in these units is determined by a housing lottery and they pay the affordable rate for up to 50 years.
I have to say for a meeting about a technical modification to the building plans that could have let out after 5 minutes, I was very annoyed by the 1 hour of affordable housing questions that followed. There were residents contradicting themselves on multiple occasions just to make a fuss, or they were selectively hearing what information the developer was sharing to address their concerns. The developer was right, though: you'd be hard pressed to find another development project in Boston that offers that amount and diversity of public benefits as the Copley Place Tower does.
bigeman312
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
Don't count your chickens before they hatch: this one isn't under construction yet.
I'm pretty sure (not 100% positive) that One Financial Center, One Post Office Square, and Exchange place were all under construction at the same time in the early-mid '80s.
EDIT: I'm more certain that The Hancock, The Federal Reserve Bank Building, and 60 State Street, (and maybe One Federal Street) were all under construction at the same time in the mid-to-late '70s.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch: this one isn't under construction yet.
I'm pretty sure (not 100% positive) that One Financial Center, One Post Office Square, and Exchange place were all under construction at the same time in the early-mid '80s.
EDIT: I'm more certain that The Hancock, The Federal Reserve Bank Building, and 60 State Street, (and maybe One Federal Street) were all under construction at the same time in the mid-to-late '70s.
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
Affordable housing programs vary in both their income eligibility terms and their rent limits. There are local, state, and federal programs (multiple at each level), it's not always the city. Most affordable properties have multiple layers of support, which means multiple thresholds or tiers for qualification and rent limits. You're right that sometimes it's a lottery, not always though (very commonly it is in Boston given the extreme demand). A lot of the programs derive their income limits from annually updated HUD data, and then tweak it a bit. So they're not all exactly the same, but close.
I don't happen to know which programs this property has, so I can't say whether the City has a say. This web site has a useful introduction to what the limits look like in three MA cities for a range of programs (please note that some of these charts are for 60% AMI, some for 80% AMI, etc):
http://www.massresources.org/affordable-housing-financial-eligibility.html
So just for a taste of what the 60AMI implies: if you've got federal Low Income Housing Tax Credits, you've probably got a bunch of units at the 60% AMI level for a household of four in Boston is $56,460. That's total gross income for the family, before taxes. If there are two adults working equal hours, 40 hours per week base and averaging 10 hours overtime at time and a half, for 50 weeks, that gets to a ballpark base hourly wage of a tad over $10 per hour, just above minimum. Many households at this income level have far more patchy collections of income: multiple jobs, some more or less predictable in hours per week. These are folks often referred to as "the working poor", cause they're working, but feeding, clothing, housing four people on that sum of money in Boston is a real struggle.
The full source charts (deeper links within the link I've attached) break it down by household size, so there's different limits for differently sized households.
Note that the Tax Credit, and a number of other programs, are NOT operating subsidies. They help finance the project's construction, and in return the owner must meet program requirements for X years. Flat minimum term these days is 30 years, and I just about never see less than 50 in Boston; some go 99 years, a few try for "in perpetuity". Section 8 is an operating subsidy, by contrast.
Affordable housing programs vary in both their income eligibility terms and their rent limits. There are local, state, and federal programs (multiple at each level), it's not always the city. Most affordable properties have multiple layers of support, which means multiple thresholds or tiers for qualification and rent limits. You're right that sometimes it's a lottery, not always though (very commonly it is in Boston given the extreme demand). A lot of the programs derive their income limits from annually updated HUD data, and then tweak it a bit. So they're not all exactly the same, but close.
I don't happen to know which programs this property has, so I can't say whether the City has a say. This web site has a useful introduction to what the limits look like in three MA cities for a range of programs (please note that some of these charts are for 60% AMI, some for 80% AMI, etc):
http://www.massresources.org/affordable-housing-financial-eligibility.html
So just for a taste of what the 60AMI implies: if you've got federal Low Income Housing Tax Credits, you've probably got a bunch of units at the 60% AMI level for a household of four in Boston is $56,460. That's total gross income for the family, before taxes. If there are two adults working equal hours, 40 hours per week base and averaging 10 hours overtime at time and a half, for 50 weeks, that gets to a ballpark base hourly wage of a tad over $10 per hour, just above minimum. Many households at this income level have far more patchy collections of income: multiple jobs, some more or less predictable in hours per week. These are folks often referred to as "the working poor", cause they're working, but feeding, clothing, housing four people on that sum of money in Boston is a real struggle.
The full source charts (deeper links within the link I've attached) break it down by household size, so there's different limits for differently sized households.
Note that the Tax Credit, and a number of other programs, are NOT operating subsidies. They help finance the project's construction, and in return the owner must meet program requirements for X years. Flat minimum term these days is 30 years, and I just about never see less than 50 in Boston; some go 99 years, a few try for "in perpetuity". Section 8 is an operating subsidy, by contrast.
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
Huh? There are loads of renders and detailing for exactly where it's going. This has been planned for years.
Where in the Sam Hill would they put it?!!
Huh? There are loads of renders and detailing for exactly where it's going. This has been planned for years.
Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
Geez, I hope I don't jinx it! I should amend my post to say assuming Copley comes to fruition.
Geez, I hope I don't jinx it! I should amend my post to say assuming Copley comes to fruition.
whighlander
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
Bigeman -- doesn't really matter what the particular mix of buildings -- suffice it to say that a period with this much major construction activity only happens about once per decade
When you add the geographic diversity of the major construction projects all underway at once and offering skyline-changing towers from North Station to Dalton St and Congress to Washington -- that is close to unprecedented for Boston
Bigeman -- doesn't really matter what the particular mix of buildings -- suffice it to say that a period with this much major construction activity only happens about once per decade
When you add the geographic diversity of the major construction projects all underway at once and offering skyline-changing towers from North Station to Dalton St and Congress to Washington -- that is close to unprecedented for Boston
DigitalSciGuy
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Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower
Unprecedented, indeed. Casey Ross did a little blurb in The Globe the other day about this recent construction boom and relating it to past bouts of construction.
What's the barometer on neighbourhood sentiment for this project these days?
Unprecedented, indeed. Casey Ross did a little blurb in The Globe the other day about this recent construction boom and relating it to past bouts of construction.
What's the barometer on neighbourhood sentiment for this project these days?
JohnAKeith
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I don't think neighborhood sentiment has changed during the past couple of years. There was resistance to the height and also questions raised about whether or not the developer was satisfying old affordable housing promises from Copley Place it was first built (something like that). The project was approved, though, and it looks as though these minor modifications announced last week won't require new approvals?
The only thing holding this up has been the developer, from what I can tell.
I think we'll see this break ground this year (the 1-year prep work, at least). We'll see this tower long before Fenway Center gets going. What is up with THAT??!
The only thing holding this up has been the developer, from what I can tell.
I think we'll see this break ground this year (the 1-year prep work, at least). We'll see this tower long before Fenway Center gets going. What is up with THAT??!
Unprecedented, but explainable. High tech is the future and we have an awesome foundation for that here. Whether it be research, software, bio-engineering or the fields that touch them such as law, finance, marketing and sales. Boston's economy (and hopefully the surrounding regions) is really well positioned for the early 21st century.
This is a boom, but I think we're somewhere still on the incline of the demand curve rather than at the top or even near it.
I agree. The skyline now reminds me of Hong Kong, Singapore, and Sydney during my business travel in the early 2000's. I used to be able to keep up with Boston events by checking archboston every few weeks or so. That doesn't work anymore!
whighlander
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Anyone want to see the transformation of Boston in one generation -- find a cable channel with Banacek. In the intro to each episode George Peppard as Bancek sculls down the Charles with the Hancock and One Beacon Street under construction circa 1973
I saw an episode recently on MeTV on Fios -- this particular episode had some exterior shots of venues that have changed substantially in the subsequent 40 years
JohnAKeith
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I agree with the "incline" in construction & development. I'm usually skeptical about things (I mean, pessimistic) but I'm pretty positive about things.
Millennium Tower really could be the start of something new - with that, CSC/Four Seasons, and Copley/Simon, things could really get exciting.
Millennium Tower really could be the start of something new - with that, CSC/Four Seasons, and Copley/Simon, things could really get exciting.
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DigitalSciGuy
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Yeah, I, too, have guarded optimism about the uptick in construction. I certainly hope we see more of this type of development, especially as we have this latent need to build over the many single-storey retail stalls around Boston. Thinking of Hong Kong and Sydney, does anyone have context for how residents felt about all the taller development? Does it even matter today? My concern is whether this city's apparently continued hangover from Urban Renewal is going to hold us back at all; the fact that it didn't stop this tower from achieving its height is perhaps testament to changing attitudes? With this going up, can we now revisit Columbus Center?...
On the development itself, do we know or think Simon will be closing the retail immediately under the tower during construction? I can't recall the last time I saw a tower go up over an existing building to use it as the podium.
On the development itself, do we know or think Simon will be closing the retail immediately under the tower during construction? I can't recall the last time I saw a tower go up over an existing building to use it as the podium.
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