Crazy Transit Pitches

What would difference in engineering complexity be between a Comm Ave subway and a Mass Pike subway?
A cut-and-cover tunnel could be built under one roadway of the Pike, while temporarily making the other side of the Pike 2 lanes each way separated by a Jersey barrier. There are virtually no utilities under the Pike roadway, so it would be cheaper than a Commonwealth Ave tunnel.
 
A cut-and-cover tunnel could be built under one roadway of the Pike, while temporarily making the other side of the Pike 2 lanes each way separated by a Jersey barrier. There are virtually no utilities under the Pike roadway, so it would be cheaper than a Commonwealth Ave tunnel.
There's virtually no utilities under the B reservation, either. The streetcar trackage has been active on that footprint since 1892, so there were never enough service outages in history to trench crap underneath. The only places you'd have criscrossing utility lines are at the intersections where it's easy to re-route stuff. Beyond that, the carriageways of Comm Ave. are hermetically sealed from each other. Cut-and-covering the reservation footprint is some of the cheapest tunneling in the city because of how clean it verifiably is underneath.

Plus you probably wouldn't have to close any lanes whatsoever to trench a tunnel under the reservation. Comm Ave. out to BU Bridge has already been narrowed somewhat from its former 6-lane footprint with the grass medians framing the reservation. Plenty of room to excavate and pour with nothing more than traffic-coning the construction vehicles in the left lane for a few dozen feet at the point of ongoing construction. The Pike lane closure mitigations are MUCH more invasive despite that also being clean of utilities.
 
A cut-and-cover tunnel could be built under one roadway of the Pike, while temporarily making the other side of the Pike 2 lanes each way separated by a Jersey barrier. There are virtually no utilities under the Pike roadway, so it would be cheaper than a Commonwealth Ave tunnel.
Hehe. Sometimes I worry I'm being too aggressively anti-car in some of these conversations. Then here you come and casually suggesting cut-and-covering though an interstate. I thought would be beyond the pale, even for a crazy transit pitch.

But you know what? I'm on board. I like it. I love it! I'd vote for you.
 
Hehe. Sometimes I worry I'm being too aggressively anti-car in some of these conversations. Then here you come and casually suggesting cut-and-covering though an interstate. I thought would be beyond the pale, even for a crazy transit pitch.

But you know what? I'm on board. I like it. I love it! I'd vote for you.
OK, common, seriously. Doesn't it really make much more sense to build the tunnel in the existing transit reservation, where a robust transit walkshed has developed over the past 130 years of transit service in the corridor?
 
OK, common, seriously. Doesn't it really make much more sense to build the tunnel in the existing transit reservation, where a robust transit walkshed has developed over the past 130 years of transit service in the corridor?
Is that the correct interpretation of what Riverside proposes, though? When I look at his map, I see something that is not meant to replace the B-Line, but rather instead just passes through the area in order to make some connections that don't currently exist (eg Harvard to Longwood). Since it's not a B-line replacement, does it really make sense for it to follow the same ROW?
 
OK, common, seriously. Doesn't it really make much more sense to build the tunnel in the existing transit reservation, where a robust transit walkshed has developed over the past 130 years of transit service in the corridor?
Oh yeah, I agree with you. Just goofing around.

I got a chuckle out of @Charlie_mta 's answer mainly because it didn't even occur to me. Maintaining car traffic levels, especially on a highway, still feels almost sacrosanct. I don't believe it should be sacrosanct, but it's hard to shake, and in my first reply I ran with the assumption that we can't disrupt highway traffic. I appreciated Charlie's answer because he's right: Of course we can cut-and-cover through the Pike. It's just concrete. We can divert traffic. It's an option to consider with its own pros and cons, and disrupting a highway doesn't have to make it a non-starter. It was funny to have to be reminded of that.
 
Is that the correct interpretation of what Riverside proposes, though? When I look at his map, I see something that is not meant to replace the B-Line, but rather instead just passes through the area in order to make some connections that don't currently exist (eg Harvard to Longwood). Since it's not a B-line replacement, does it really make sense for it to follow the same ROW?
Yes, I'm not sure where the confusion has arisen, but to be clear: I am asking about a subway under the Mass Pike in addition to a Commonwealth subway. The comparison between them was meant to investigate the challenges of a Mass Pike subway -- i.e. if a Comm Ave subway is "easy", a Mass Pike subway should be "easy" as well, right?

And it sounds like the answer is yes, from a subterranean perspective: Comm Ave should be free of utilities, as should the Mass Pike, and I believe the substrate is similar (I think they both sit on fill). The big difference of course is in the surface mitigation. Yes, a Mass Pike subway would require closing lanes but... I kinda don't care. We close lanes on highways all the time. The closure would enable a one-seat rapid transit ride connecting Kendall, Allston, Harvard, and Longwood, which would be transformative. That seems like it would probably be worth it.

(Plus, you have the commuter rail tracks right there. You could definitely find some way to beef up service as a mitigation measure.)

And even if the disruption on the Pike is more significant -- i.e. all lanes have to be closed -- I still think that isn't a deal breaker. A Mass Pike subway would let you link the Grand Junction with the Fenway Branch while remaining almost entirely within the public right-of-way, and with potentially minimal use of TBM. I haven't seen any other proposal for a Kendall <> Longwood OSR that does that.

~~~

One alternative that looks initially appealing is to instead run Kendall trains into a Comm Ave subway and somehow cut over from Comm Ave to Longwood. But I think this comes up short in a few areas.

First: that "somehow cut over from Comm Ave to Longwood" is not trivial at all. BU has built a wall of buildings between Comm Ave and the Mass Pike, with one tiny gap at Blandford Mall. Blandford would require a sharp speed-reducing curve to reach from Comm Ave, and otherwise your only option is to go further east and do... something... on the outskirts of Kenmore Square. The Mass Pike alignment is valuable for solving the north-south access problem, not just the east-west access problem.

Second: utilizing the Comm Ave subway means building two flying junctions just about 2,100 feet apart, which suddenly makes the otherwise-dead-simple Comm Ave subway a lot more complex to construct. And the short overlap means that you get the worst of both worlds: not very much money saved on tunneling, with zero isolation between the two services, intrinsically linking the reliability of one to the other.

Third: the grades become hostile quickly. At the western end, the westbound Comm Ave subway would need to duck down under the Mass Pike while the Kendall branch would need to rise to reach a surface portal. At the eastern end, just 2000 feet away, the spur down to Longwood would need to dive quickly to drop from a -1 Comm Ave subway to a -2 tunnel under the Pike, and I'm not quite sure there is enough running space along Blandford to do that in addition to a flying junction. Which then means you need to sink the Comm Ave subway down further in order to accommodate the drop to get under the Mass Pike.

By keeping the Comm Ave radial infrastructure separate from the Kendall <> Longwood circumferential infrastructure, both can be built much more straightforwardly (and without requiring both to be built at the same time or otherwise particularly future-proofed).

I've drawn up some diagrams on all this, I'll try to post those this weekend.
 
At the Commonwealth/Pike/BU Bridge area, both lines (B under Comm Ave, new under Pike) would have to cross under the Pike. Isn't that the logical point for the branching?

One of those tunnels ends up super deep, and is no longer a candidate for cut-and-cover.
 
1696017521674.png


Gold Line does a shallow cut-and-cover in a -1 subway from the portal until it crosses over the Comm Ave subway, at which point it starts to drop to -2 so it can cut under the Pike. It needs about 260 feet of horizontal distance to do this, so it should be able to reach the needed depth just east of Carlton St. (Potentially sooner, depending on if the Comm Ave subway can be shifted into the northern lanes of the Avenue.) Beyond there, it runs cut-and-cover under the Pike.

Comm Ave subway (shown here with both Blue and Green Line tracks) runs in a shallow cut-and-cover -1 subway until around St Mary's St, after which it does a (more gradual) decline to -2 to pass under both the Gold Line and the Mass Pike. By running the Gold Line parallel to the Pike under Comm Ave, the Green/Blue Line can avoid deeper tunneling.

As for branching: I think an Allston/Harvard branch is better served as part of a circumferential Gold Line/Urban Ring service, rather than as a branch of the Green Line. If you really do want a Green Line branch to West Station + Harvard, yes you could put a flying interchange in this area, especially if you are not future-proofing for a Blue Line subway alongside.
 
I did a lot of crayoning and "literature search" (on this forum) for a Kendall-Longwood Urban Ring route half a year ago, but didn't manage to post it as a complete proposal.

Here's a TL;DR of the best attempt I came up with back then, which is also my most preferred route:
1696283623393.png


Build a two-level, six-track subway under Comm Ave for Blue Line, Green Line A/B branches, and Urban Ring/"Yellow Line". Comm Ave looks like it has room for 6 tracks side by side, but two levels are needed at the consolidated BU station for platforms, as well as both ends of Yellow for flying junctions.

Yellow Line turns south at Brookline Ave, goes under the present-day flying junction with B and C/D branches, and then arrives at a Kenmore-Lansdowne station that has transfer walkways to both Kenmore and Lansdowne stations. From there, it uses the old Highland Branch ROW to get to Fenway station on the D. (There should be just enough space between the turns for a 300-ft platform, but they can be extended south to part of the gentler curve to Lansdowne if needed.)

Explanations, combined with a rough recall of what I read half a year ago:
  • I didn't opt for a Mass Turnpike route for two reasons: (1) The location and catchment are less than ideal, as discussed above. (2) The insertion from the Pike to the D branch is very sharp, and a flat junction with the C branch is necessary.
  • Once you get on Comm Ave, F-Line insisted that turning anywhere west of the Kenmore vicinity is a no-go because of tall BU buildings and sharp turns. Negative examples include Blandford Mall and St. Mary's St. So that leaves us to Brookline Ave for the turn.
  • F-Line also mentioned there's an Eversource substation near the intersection of Beacon St and Mass Pike, specifically to the ENE, that messes up with digging subways there (though I don't recall exactly how). I tried to avoid that vicinity as much as possible, though I'm not sure if it also affects Brookline Ave and Fitchburg ROW.
  • Once the routing is done, having a station at Brookline Ave becomes self-explanatory, connecting Yellow to both Green and Worcester lines. I don't recall any prior Urban Ring proposals with a direct connection to regional rail at Lansdowne (though most of its practical uses can be achieved at West Station and Back Bay).
What I'm not sure about or haven't worked out yet:
  • Turning radii, especially for the turn from Comm Ave to Brookline Ave
  • Possible impacts of the Eversource substation
  • Whether the merge onto the D branch is feasible, as the D turns north underneath a building
  • Design for the 6-track Comm Ave subway and flying junctions
  • Grades
I'll add in links to previous discussions when I can, but I have a few busy weeks ahead, so don't count on it.
 
Last edited:
Did a quick search, found some old posts from @F-Line to Dudley about that power station, I'll drop those below. It's here, the last building on the south side of Beacon just before the Mass Pike. It looks like your alignment steers well clear of it.

(More thoughts later! Interesting idea!)

EDIT: Re Comm Ave <> Brookline Ave turning radii -- my quick check suggests that the industry standard 82' radius should be doable.

 
I'll use this as a prompt to get my sketch for this corner of the system finished up:

1696338758639.png


[EDIT: color changes indicate grade changes]

Comm Ave:

Comm Ave subway (shown here with both Blue and Green Line tracks) runs in a shallow cut-and-cover -1 subway until around St Mary's St, after which it does a (gradual) decline to -2 to pass under both the Gold Line and the Mass Pike.

Gold Line does a shallow cut-and-cover in a -1 subway from the portal until it crosses over the Comm Ave subway, at which point it starts to quickly drop to -2 so it can cut under the Pike. It needs about 260 feet of horizontal distance to do this, so it should be able to reach the needed depth just east of Carlton St. (Potentially sooner, depending on if the Comm Ave subway can be shifted into the northern lanes of the Avenue.) Beyond there, it runs cut-and-cover under the Pike.

By running the Gold Line parallel to the Pike under Comm Ave, the Green/Blue Line can avoid deeper tunneling.

Beacon Junction:

Just a little bit east of the BU Engineering Research Building, the Gold Line curves south while completing its descent to -3. (Particularly if the Gold Line hugs the northern side of the Mass Pike, there should be ample space here to build an industry-standard 82' curve radius.) The curve targets alignment with the short tangent stretch of tunnel currently used by the D Line in its approach to the flat junction with the C Line. Terrible sketch using Van's track map:

1696339376389.png


The Gold Line passes under the Beacon Street Subway at -3 and then quickly ascends into the existing D tunnel. By using the existing D tunnel as a "jump off" point for digging our new tunnel, we can avoid cut-and-cover on the surface -- instead, we do cut-and-cover under the existing subway.

I'm not totally sure about the existing grades in the tunnel -- it's possible that the entire tunnel, plus some of the incline at Fenway station, would need to be dug out to make for a steeper grade sufficient to do the necessary elevation changes. But, as I've tried to indicate with the placement of the 260' scale markers, there should be enough distance between Fenway station and the Beacon Subway to make the necessary drops within the existing ROW's footprint (even if none of the extant physical track would be used).

Then at Fenway you have a flat junction for a surface branch into Longwood proper. This part is... fuzzy and has a significant impact on the intersection with Park Dr, which I haven't fully vetted. But that's out of scope for the particular question of getting between Fenway and BU Bridge.

Boston University station:

Parallel stations at/near St. Mary's Street, joined by a pedestrian tunnel underneath the street, with headhouses on Comm Ave and Mountfort Street, and probably on the northern edge of the Pike for the BU buildings there. Pedestrians cross the highway below ground level behind fare control. (Or, I mean, I guess it doesn't actually have to be behind fare control.)

The horizontal distance between platforms and headhouses is within the realm of existing downtown transfers, though the level of vertical circulation is less than ideal; the north-south pedestrian underpass would need to dip all the way down to -3 in order to clear under the Gold Line, which would require some long escalators which in turn likely increases the horizontal distance. It's the most painful for commuters going between Comm Ave street level and the Gold Line -- will require four stories' worth of escalators (3 down, 1 up), plus something like 300'-350' of walking.

~~~

That all being said, while I need to look at it more closely, I think I like @Teban54's design better. One way or another, I think this stretch would need 2 sets of LRT tracks, plus I want to future-proof a Blue Line tunnel through here as well, and I think Comm Ave could handle 6 tracks (and definitely could if they were double-stacked). Comm Ave would be easier to dig under than the Mass Pike, and while I am less pessimistic about a Mass Pike subway station than some, obviously it would be better for everyone if it were under Comm Ave instead.

The double-back is somewhat inelegant, and the extra stop would increase travel time. But a transfer at Kenmore would be valuable, especially since it reduces the pressure to extend the Blue Line to BU in an initial build (since the Gold <> Blue transfer would be available at Kenmore, and a Purple <> Blue transfer would be made easier with an internal connection between the stations).

EDIT: Also, the Brookline Ave alignment would allow a non-revenue connection between Fenway and the Beacon St Subway to remain extant, which I do think would be valuable.

Plus, another station at Kenmore/Lansdowne would be invaluable with crowd distribution during "Code Red [Sox]" situations.
 
I did a lot of crayoning and "literature search" (on this forum) for a Kendall-Longwood Urban Ring route half a year ago, but didn't manage to post it as a complete proposal.

Here's a TL;DR of the best attempt I came up with back then, which is also my most preferred route:
View attachment 43181

Build a two-level, six-track subway under Comm Ave for Blue Line, Green Line A/B branches, and Urban Ring/"Yellow Line". Comm Ave looks like it has room for 6 tracks side by side, but two levels are needed at the consolidated BU station for platforms, as well as both ends of Yellow for flying junctions.

Yellow Line turns south at Brookline Ave, goes under the present-day flying junction with B and C/D branches, and then arrives at a Kenmore-Lansdowne station that has transfer walkways to both Kenmore and Lansdowne stations. From there, it uses the old Highland Branch ROW to get to Fenway station on the D. (There should be just enough space between the turns for a 300-ft platform, but they can be extended south to part of the gentler curve to Lansdowne if needed.)

Explanations, combined with a rough recall of what I read half a year ago:
  • I didn't opt for a Mass Turnpike route for two reasons: (1) The location and catchment are less than ideal, as discussed above. (2) The insertion from the Pike to the D branch is very sharp, and a flat junction with the C branch is necessary.
  • Once you get on Comm Ave, F-Line insisted that turning anywhere west of the Kenmore vicinity is a no-go because of tall BU buildings and sharp turns. Negative examples include Blandford Mall and St. Mary's St. So that leaves us to Brookline Ave for the turn.
  • F-Line also mentioned there's an Eversource substation near the intersection of Beacon St and Mass Pike, specifically to the ENE, that messes up with digging subways there (though I don't recall exactly how). I tried to avoid that vicinity as much as possible, though I'm not sure if it also affects Brookline Ave and Fitchburg ROW.
  • Once the routing is done, having a station at Brookline Ave becomes self-explanatory, connecting Yellow to both Green and Worcester lines. I don't recall any prior Urban Ring proposals with a direct connection to regional rail at Lansdowne (though most of its practical uses can be achieved at West Station and Back Bay).
What I'm not sure about or haven't worked out yet:
  • Turning radii, especially for the turn from Comm Ave to Brookline Ave
  • Possible impacts of the Eversource substation
  • Whether the merge onto the D branch is feasible, as the D turns north underneath a building
  • Design for the 6-track Comm Ave subway and flying junctions
  • Grades
I'll add in links to previous discussions when I can, but I have a few busy weeks ahead, so don't count on it.
Digging into this more. Yeah, like I said, I think this is really interesting. It seems to me the pieces break down like this:

Least Concern: Comm Ave subway; as discussed, this should be "clean" and the road is very wide

Mid Concern: tunneling under the old Highland Branch ROW between Brookline Ave and Miner St; this should be "clean", since it's been under a railroad or a street since, like, forever, but it is less well-studied and is that much closer to the Muddy River

Also of mid concern is the curve through Kenmore Square -- again, some question about the substrate, and some question about how quickly the Beacon St Subway descends after the flying junction and in turn how deep and how quick the new subway would need to drop to dig underneath it

Most Concern: the stretch along Brookline Ave, which looks so tempting -- barely 500 feet, linking together two relatively clean ROWs. But to me it was the most mysterious and therefore concerning, so I went looking at the glorious tome that is the 1938 Bromley Atlas, where I found:

1696519446009.png


There, in tiny letters, we can see the label of the Muddy River Conduit (described in greater detail here). So, does that kill the plan dead? No idea -- maybe it's possible to integrate the conduit into the subway or something, I dunno. But, in my eyes at least, that seems like the main question mark for this otherwise very promising proposal.
 
Digging into this more. Yeah, like I said, I think this is really interesting. It seems to me the pieces break down like this:

Least Concern: Comm Ave subway; as discussed, this should be "clean" and the road is very wide

Mid Concern: tunneling under the old Highland Branch ROW between Brookline Ave and Miner St; this should be "clean", since it's been under a railroad or a street since, like, forever, but it is less well-studied and is that much closer to the Muddy River

Also of mid concern is the curve through Kenmore Square -- again, some question about the substrate, and some question about how quickly the Beacon St Subway descends after the flying junction and in turn how deep and how quick the new subway would need to drop to dig underneath it

Most Concern: the stretch along Brookline Ave, which looks so tempting -- barely 500 feet, linking together two relatively clean ROWs. But to me it was the most mysterious and therefore concerning, so I went looking at the glorious tome that is the 1938 Bromley Atlas, where I found:

View attachment 43248

There, in tiny letters, we can see the label of the Muddy River Conduit (described in greater detail here). So, does that kill the plan dead? No idea -- maybe it's possible to integrate the conduit into the subway or something, I dunno. But, in my eyes at least, that seems like the main question mark for this otherwise very promising proposal.
Hmm. I have no idea about the depth and width of the Muddy River Conduit, but the beginning of the conduit - the gate house in Muddy River near Park Dr - can be seen on satellite and street view. There are two pipes there that don't seem too big, about 15 ft wide combined:
1696542136114.png

1696542153109.png


If the conduit is indeed like this at the Brookline Ave section, and the road has no other utilities underneath (which admittedly is a big question mark), then it doesn't look like a death sentence. Looks like it should be relatively easy to reposition the pipes and make way for the subway and stations.

I'm not sure whether the conduit is above or below the B/C flyover, but even if it's below, it still seems plausible for the Urban Ring subway to go underneath it. (The subway will need to start its descent at Comm Ave, but there's plenty of space for that.) Or move the conduit below the subway. Or stack the tracks and platforms so that the station can be fit in one side of the conduit, possibly requiring the pipes to be shifted horizontally.
 
Hmm. I have no idea about the depth and width of the Muddy River Conduit, but the beginning of the conduit - the gate house in Muddy River near Park Dr - can be seen on satellite and street view. There are two pipes there that don't seem too big, about 15 ft wide combined:
View attachment 43261
View attachment 43262

If the conduit is indeed like this at the Brookline Ave section, and the road has no other utilities underneath (which admittedly is a big question mark), then it doesn't look like a death sentence. Looks like it should be relatively easy to reposition the pipes and make way for the subway and stations.

I'm not sure whether the conduit is above or below the B/C flyover, but even if it's below, it still seems plausible for the Urban Ring subway to go underneath it. (The subway will need to start its descent at Comm Ave, but there's plenty of space for that.) Or move the conduit below the subway. Or stack the tracks and platforms so that the station can be fit in one side of the conduit, possibly requiring the pipes to be shifted horizontally.
Just going to point out that the conduit likely has a gravity driven flow elevation, so you almost certainly are not moving the conduit (up or down).
 
The Green Line goes under the Muddy River between Auditorium and Kenmore so it's not like it's been done before. But also, I'm curious why Park Drive / Audubon Circle wasn't considered as the route. It's a 4 lane road so plenty of room to redirect traffic during cut and cover and I don't think there is any big infrastructure under that street.
 
What I'm not sure about or haven't worked out yet:
  • Turning radii, especially for the turn from Comm Ave to Brookline Ave
  • Possible impacts of the Eversource substation
  • Whether the merge onto the D branch is feasible, as the D turns north underneath a building
  • Design for the 6-track Comm Ave subway and flying junctions
  • Grades
I've had a strange series of days IRL, and I think I responded to some but not all of these.

Turning radii, especially for the turn from Comm Ave to Brookline Ave

By my read, this should be okay. The industry-standard 82' radius is maybe a hair too large, but we're gonna be stuck with the 60' Kenmore Loop so we have wiggle room to go sharper than the industry standard.

1696623329271.png


Possible impacts of the Eversource substation

I've highlighted the location of the substation on your original diagram (in red). To my eye, your proposed tunnels are quite far away, so it seems unlikely to cause impact.

1696623517445.png



Whether the merge onto the D branch is feasible, as the D turns north underneath a building

Can you elaborate what you mean here?

Design for the 6-track Comm Ave subway and flying junctions

Assuming we don't do a flying junction at BU Bridge to connect West Station with the Boylston Street Subway (which, as I think you know, I feel is unnecessary), I'm not sure you need any flying junctions for this design?

Grades

At the western end at BU Bridge, there should be no problem: the "diverging route" that runs Comm Ave <> BU Bridge stays level and curves parallel to the Mass Pike (as I showed above), while the "tangent route" that continues under Comm Ave simply has to start dropping early enough to drop to -2 to clear the Pike and the diverging tunnel. It's over 750 feet between St. Mary's St and Carlton St, so there should be plenty of space.

At the eastern end it's a little more complex, but quite doable. Borrowing Van's track map for illustration purposes:

1696628785573.png


At Point V, the two subways can be parallel and really at any depth we want, but probably at -1. Around Point W, both subways will need to start descending.

Point X is probably the most dicey part, grades-wise, although not for the Gold Line; the Gold Line will need to have dropped to -2 to cross under the Beacon Street Subway, which there's ample room for on Comm Ave. The concern I have is the Beacon Street Subway itself: somewhere around Point X, it needs to start its descent to clear under the Mass Pike at -2. If it starts that descent immediately, it might impinge on the ROW we're looking at for the Gold Line's curve. If so, we either need to push the Gold Line deeper, or partially reconstruct the Beacon Street Subway to accommodate.

At Point Y, the Gold Line needs to be at -2 to sit under the Pike (and potentially deeper if there's a mezzanine for those pedestrian connection tunnels). But again, that should be okay from a grade perspective, since it already will need to be at -2 to cross under the Beacon Street Subway.

Then it's just a matter of rising from -2ish at Point Y to the -1 portal at Point Z. There's something like 1,000 feet there -- enough even to rise from -3 or -4 to -1.

[EDIT: IIRC, the 7% grade used to calculate the 260 feet per level guideline is only permitted up to 500 or 600 feet, I think. So, enough to ride two levels, but not three. But again, I think there’s still enough room.]

So I think that should all be okay. The only question mark is whether the "C-D Connector" (shown in grey) would need to be reworked to accommodate a sharper descent in the new subway. But, again, there is plenty of running room, so the new subway would not need to dive immediately after the portal.

(Note that Van's diagram is [I think] not perfectly to scale. That's fine -- I'm not using it for precise measurements, but just to illustrate how the different pieces fit together.)
 
Last edited:
  • Whether the merge onto the D branch is feasible, as the D turns north underneath a building
To this point, one thing I've been thinking about recently is using the small maintenance yard adjacent to the Fenway stop for this. With a little reconfiguration of the station, it looks like there might be enough room for some sort of flying junction, or at-grade if it isn't too detrimental. The path would probably have to be relocated to start on a bridge at Park Dr overpass, but I think this would make sense for overall pedestrian flow between Park and Miner St. The Gold Line station could be east of Park. This way you can avoid a complicated underground junction.
1696641507462.png
 
Couldn't this be addressed with a pump?
It can be, but then it is a point of failure and potential flooding.

The Muddy River is going to be problematic enough from a flooding standpoint going forward without adding systems that can fail at critical times.

There is a pretty basic rule in drainage engineering, if gravity can do the job, don't design in the need for a pump. Because then you really need two full size pumps, and a backup power source to be safe. A pumped drainage system is your last resort.

We seem to have forgotten the 1996 Green Line flood due to the Muddy River. Rain events like this are getting ever more common:

"On October 20 and 21, 1996, torrential rain in excess of twelve inches fell in the Boston area. The storm overtaxed the municipal drainage systems in Boston and Brookline, and Boston's Muddy River overflowed. Over thirty million gallons of water poured into the Green Line, crippling seven subway stations and shutting down service on portions of all four branches of the Green Line. The tunnels were closed for six days during the pumping and emergency repair operation"
 
Last edited:

Back
Top