Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street | Downtown

Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Nonsense. A blank streetwall here even after all this investment would be a really bad outcome.

This parcel and the adjacent ramp parcel should both have a complete rethinking / redesign.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Needs at least some ground floor retail, otherwise it perpetuates the "edge of civilization" dead zone out at the Greenway.

In terms of what it is, I like it as rendered. IRL, though, there's so much that could go so, so wrong.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

It's been a slow beginning. But in the not too distant future, more approved + proposed projects will reach market, and people will finally spill into the Greenway.... and trigger a modest avalanche.

.
 
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

This will end up much closer to the dull conformity of parcel 9. Contextualism is a double edge sword, sometimes it works well other times it is a suffocating albatross.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Existing retail is cut from 15,000 sq ft to 8,000 sq ft.

Parking: Current parking goes from 698 to 682, of which 402 are self-parked spaces, and the remaining 280 vehicles will be accommodated by valet service, including the possible use of mechanical stackers. Residents will have access to the public parking garage, including by possible leasing spaces. Likely with resident leasing, the loss of 'public' spaces will be significantly more than 11. The PNF does list other nearby projects and the net loss of parking spaces, although two projects (Garden, and Garden garage) will increase the number of available spaces by 1050.

Flooding
"According to the BPDA Sea Level Rise Flood Hazard Area Map, the Sea Level Rise – Base Flood Elevation for the site is 19.5 feet Boston City Base (BCB). This is a calculation based on a 1% annual chance of flooding with 40 inches on sea level rise. The first-floor elevation of the existing parking garage is at 15.65 ft BCB, making the site vulnerable to sea level rise, storm surge, and stormwater flooding. Because the Project consists of construction an addition on the existing building, raising the first-floor elevation or designing higher ceiling heights is not feasible. However, the Project will take measures to minimize the impact of potential flooding at the site, including the following:
>> Existing ground floor spaces will be upgraded utilizing water-resistant materials;
>> Backup power supply and fuel sources will be located above the Sea Level Rise Base Flood Elevation;"

On Jan 4, 2018, the flood level was 15.1 feet. Not sure how that level relates to the Boston City Base. The max tide for Boston was the Blizzard of '78, with a height of 18.62 feet.

Historic resources.
The PNF lists the large number of historic sites proximate to the site, and nearby. The PNF then states:

Given its proximity to the Blackstone Block Historic District and Quincy Market, the Project will be visible from, and has the potential to affect views of historic properties within these districts. However, the Project is not expected to introduce new elements that are visually incompatible to the adjacent districts. As envisioned, the Project’s design will transform a brick-veneered parking garage into a mixed-use building, clad with high-quality materials, and softened with rooftop green space. The existing garage brick façade will be re-clad along its entire perimeter. The new garage façade will be composed of a combination of terra-cotta louvers and perforated metal panels, organized in a vertical grid pattern to reduce the scale of the existing garage facade. The residential addition above the garage will be skinned throughout with glass curtainwall facades. Subtle surface undulations will be included to add interest to the glass surfaces, and to allow for unit balconies (see Figure 5-4). The goal of the overall façade composition is to create a warm-colored building base that fits in the context of the historical neighborhood.

This single paragraph in a 330+ page document is so half-heartedly, superficially, and insincerely expressed -- not to mention the subjective claims -- that I am left to believe that the PNF submission is basically a massing model. The few elevations are black and white sketches. No design review of the external elements is possible because so little has been provided.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

This will end up much closer to the dull conformity of parcel 9. Contextualism is a double edge sword, sometimes it works well other times it is a suffocating albatross.
In this case of Parcel 9 the context is seemingly the ArchBoston proverbial field of frisky donkeys.

The planners are missing the proper historical context...an area that is an exciting magnet for people and commerce.

Using "specimen planning" turns Quincy Market into the shiny knick knack in a pauper's drab sitting room.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Tear it down.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

This is sick! All I can think of though..."tear down city hall"
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

They're literally building on top of the garage so with that in mind its pretty good. In the most recent meeting proponents are trying to get some ground floor retail space added in to the plan, which needs to happen imo. If it does this will be a pretty big success given the location.
https://northendwaterfront.com/2018/04/dock-square-garage-plan-shows-limits-of-building-over-existing-parking-structure/
https://northendwaterfront.com/2018/02/renderings-released-dock-square-garage-development/

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pocket-park-at-dock-square.jpg

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The Haymarket/Blackstone Market is going up literally next door to this, and the Boston Public Market is next to that. Not bad. The garage being replaces is top left in first render.

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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Hear that sound? That's the sound of Boston improving every minute.

This project is what happens when smart and caring urban planners, architects and developers work to make a city a better place. This isn't just "win-win". This is "win-win-win-win-win".

Kudos all around. Now build it.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Check this thread in a year when the curtain wall glazing doesn't match that render in real life.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Holy crap! I read the comments in the North End Waterfront newsletter that Stick posted! People were absolutely besides themselves....comments such as...this is massive, a skyscraper, monstrous, will block views, Boston is being destroyed, this is not New York, etc. Comments seem over the top even for North Enders...or maybe not. Am I not seeing what they're seeing? I was stunned!
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Hear that sound? That's the sound of Boston improving every minute.

This project is what happens when smart and caring urban planners, architects and developers work to make a city a better place. This isn't just "win-win". This is "win-win-win-win-win".

Kudos all around. Now build it.

The only sounds I hear are the sounds of clanging pitchforks and North Ender's heads exploding. I personally don't think this is happening. Not this iteration. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

They're literally building on top of the garage so with that in mind its pretty good. In the most recent meeting proponents are trying to get some ground floor retail space added in to the plan, which needs to happen imo. If it does this will be a pretty big success given the location.
https://northendwaterfront.com/2018/04/dock-square-garage-plan-shows-limits-of-building-over-existing-parking-structure/
https://northendwaterfront.com/2018/02/renderings-released-dock-square-garage-development/

Dock-Square-Garage-model.jpg

pocket-park-at-dock-square.jpg

Dock-Square-3.jpg


Dock-Square-1.jpg

Dock-Square-3.jpg

Dock-Square-2.jpg

Dock-Square-5.jpg

Dock-Square-4.jpg

Dock-Square-6.jpg





The Haymarket/Blackstone Market is going up literally next door to this, and the Boston Public Market is next to that. Not bad. The garage being replaces is top left in first render.

Screen-Shot-2018-03-20-at-11.05.30-PM.png

31dfdce5-3eaa-40ba-853d-11d3c0a2f6a8

Presentations like this are so exasperating. Virtually no one is going to be viewing the building from mid air over the greenway (at least not until we get our flying cars).

What does it look like from the ground? It totally looms over poor Quincy Market--which is a major tourism draw in Boston. I think a lot of the way this is being thought about is creative and right but keeping a bad parking garage with terrible street engagement makes money but not a good project.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Presentations like this are so exasperating. Virtually no one is going to be viewing the building from mid air over the greenway (at least not until we get our flying cars).

What does it look like from the ground? It totally looms over poor Quincy Market--which is a major tourism draw in Boston. I think a lot of the way this is being thought about is creative and right but keeping a bad parking garage with terrible street engagement makes money but not a good project.

"Looming over"???? Are SHADOWS now going to be an issue for "Poor Quincy Market"? Will it affect the fish and fowl there (the ones that aren't baked or grilled)? Will it put an immediate stop to the tanning enjoyed by millions of sun worshippers who flock there each year to lie on the cobblestones? Honestly, the Custom House and 3 other towers on the other side of QM from this landscraper are larger loomers.

The comment about the mid air views of the renders are ponderous also. Seems like most projects have those.

The parking garage is going nowhere. This is a great development to camouflage it. I agree with some of the other posters who curbed my enthusiasm by pointing out the greater danger is VE for this project.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

"Looming over"???? Are SHADOWS now going to be an issue for "Poor Quincy Market"? Will it affect the fish and fowl there (the ones that aren't baked or grilled)? Will it put an immediate stop to the tanning enjoyed by millions of sun worshippers who flock there each year to lie on the cobblestones? Honestly, the Custom House and 3 other towers on the other side of QM from this landscraper are larger loomers.

The comment about the mid air views of the renders are ponderous also. Seems like most projects have those.

The parking garage is going nowhere. This is a great development to camouflage it.

I've been waiting for someone to bring up the Custom House because it is not an equal comparison. The Custom House has a tight footprint and is carefully articulated as a tower. This literally creates a massive wall right next to Quincy Market. The massing of the tower on top of the garage should be broken up and better articulated.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

The concept looks pretty good.

i doubt this design will be approved. But i like it.

The North End Gang is Boston's Fredo Corleone.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

I've been waiting for someone to bring up the Custom House because it is not an equal comparison. The Custom House has a tight footprint and is carefully articulated as a tower. This literally creates a massive wall right next to Quincy Market. The massing of the tower on top of the garage should be broken up and better articulated.

Yes, and the Custom House is approximately 2-3 times taller than this project. So are the other 3 towers 'looming' over QM. It is not a wildlife preserve.

Seriously, why are shadows a 'thing" for Quincy Market? I get the arguments for parks, and large squares where people hang out and get sun. In 40+ years I've yet to see one person at QM look up for the sun.

I agree with your aesthetic point, however, about breaking up and better articulating the top of the project (sorry, not a "tower").
 
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Theres no way they couldnt fit a little bit of retail in the base. It looks pretty good though. If they can cover this garage like this they can cover any garage like this and theres no need for a plain garage like in Assembly or even the fins.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Theres no way they couldnt fit a little bit of retail in the base. It looks pretty good though. If they can cover this garage like this they can cover any garage like this and theres no need for a plain garage like in Assembly or even the fins.

+1. The city should prioritize that EVERY garage should be retro-covered and have retail soften up the ground level where possible. It would very much improve the urban fabric.
 

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