Downtown Crossing/Financial District | Discussion

Suffolk 83 said:
Carrie Nation is definitely not in DTX. Oceanaire isnt really either
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The crowds at both are definitely from DTX. IMHO think one block away from the "border" counts.

Also, I forgot Townsman, on Essex at Kingston (although it is technically in Chinatown on that side of the street it is definitely NOT a Chinatown restaurant).
 
Are a lot of those (relatively) new? Like in the past 3-4 years? I know Stoddard's is, and I've enjoyed it when I visited home.
 
JeffDowntown said:
The crowds at both are definitely from DTX. IMHO think one block away from the "border" counts.

Also, I forgot Townsman, on Essex at Kingston (although it is technically in Chinatown on that side of the street it is definitely NOT a Chinatown restaurant).
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I'm not sure what the type of crowd has do with something's location. Carrie Nation is NOT in DTX, its on Beacon Hill
 
Suffolk 83 said:
I'm not sure what the type of crowd has do with something's location. Carrie Nation is NOT in DTX, its on Beacon Hill
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Suffolk,

What I am trying to point out is that the natural, effective boundaries of neighborhoods are different than the "official" lines on the map.

Carrie Nation is technically on Beacon Hill; but it is much closer to DTX than it is to the real commercial heart of Beacon Hill, Charles Street. And it attracts a crowd that easily walks one block up the hill from DTX (but that same crowd does not tend to walk on over the hill to Charles Street).

The effective commercial neighborhood boundaries are much more fluid than the lines on the map -- and Carrie Nation would not be on that side of Beacon Hill if DTX was not up and coming. (Same reason Townsman would not naturally locate in Chinatown, even though it is "over the boundary". It is effectively a DTX restaurant.)
 
Can we count Elephant & Castle then as a DTX dining opportunity?
 
Not to be a troll here, but I REALLY disagree with you Jeff. I don't look at something like this and say 'well the commercial heart of the neighborhood is over there so this commercial property isnt really in that neighborhood'.

I also don't think Carrie Nation is where it is because it's drawing from DTX at all, it's in the middle of the city it doesn't need to draw from anything. These two areas are both pretty small and I really don't think we need to dissect things and say no its not from this small neighborhood in Boston because really its heart and its essence is in DTX. It's on the damn hill, it's in Beacon Hill, nobody who's there all the time would ever call that DTX, they just wouldn't.
 
The original discussion was about whether or not there are enough sit-down restaurants in "the area" (see post #2957), so that's the question that's ultimately being addressed, not semantics about neighborhood boundaries. Of course, there will be differing opinions on what is or is not in an "area," and how far someone living or working in DTX will go for a meal.
 
I think there definitely needs to be more sit down restaurants along Washington St. They could easily spill out into the street with cafe tables and the like. This would create some great activity along there in the evening/night.
 
cden4 said:
I think there definitely needs to be more sit down restaurants along Washington St. They could easily spill out into the street with cafe tables and the like. This would create some great activity along there in the evening/night.
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I agree. The area isn't lacking in establishments at which one can eat and drink. It's lacking in establishments at which one can eat and drink that interact well with the street. The patio at Cafe Nero is something we need a whole lot more of.

Question for any ADA experts out there: On streets where vehicular traffic is so limited, could sidewalk seating take up the entire width of the sidewalk>
 
MBTAddict said:
I agree. The area isn't lacking in establishments at which one can eat and drink. It's lacking in establishments at which one can eat and drink that interact well with the street. The patio at Cafe Nero is something we need a whole lot more of.

Question for any ADA experts out there: On streets where vehicular traffic is so limited, could sidewalk seating take up the entire width of the sidewalk>
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Not an expert, but I'd assume that the street and sidewalk would have to be flush to even possibly allow that.
 
I think as long as you left 4-5' ft on the raised part of the sidewalk, that would satisfy ADA, but most people would probably walk in the street.
 
cden4 said:
I think as long as you left 4-5' ft on the raised part of the sidewalk, that would satisfy ADA, but most people would probably walk in the street.
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You'd definitely want at least 6' clear so two wheelchairs could pass each other comfortably, but ideally you'd just go with a flush curb, which is really what DTX needs anyway throughout the entire length.
 
One of the best things Bloomberg did for NYC was install pedestrian plazas by carving out space from bloated street intersections. There is a certain crowd density that is needed to support one but DTX could be the best place for it. I honestly think opening Washington St back up to traffic would help and keeping some of the side streets ped only. That brings energy back into the area but not so much that it is choked with traffic; It would be a slow zone for sure.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
One of the best things Bloomberg did for NYC was install pedestrian plazas by carving out space from bloated street intersections. There is a certain crowd density that is needed to support one but DTX could be the best place for it. I honestly think opening Washington St back up to traffic would help and keeping some of the side streets ped only. That brings energy back into the area but not so much that it is choked with traffic; It would be a slow zone for sure.
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Washington is actually already choked with thru & parked commercial traffic. It's pretty awful tbh. Giant tour buses, cabs, delivery trucks, etc plowing through all the pedestrians wandering about on the woonerf and pulling over next to the sidewalk. It really degrades the pedestrian experience. Opening it to public traffic (in addition to commercial traffic) would just be a nightmare. That street would be constantly clogged and unusable. As a worker in DTX, I'd argue it should actually be closed to commercial traffic as well or commercial traffic should only be allowed in the early hours.

Additionally, the BTD is actually getting tough about enforcing the no public traffic on Franklin/Washington rule, even for "lost" (more like clueless, can't read signs) tourists. I've seen many tickets given and I've thanked the enforcers for giving them.
 
from recent BBJ article
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/r...own-crossing-named-one-of-country-s-most.html
Downtown Crossing named one of country’s 'most livable' neighborhoods — but there’s a big caveat
Apr 21, 2015, 1:28pm EDT UPDATED: Apr 22, 2015, 2:54pm EDT

David L. Harris
The AARP Public Policy Institute study on “The Most Livable Places at 50+” named Boston's Downtown Crossing neighborhood as one of the "most livable neighborhoods" in the country.

Catherine Carlock
Real Estate Editor-
Boston Business Journal

With abundant housing and transportation options, a relatively clean environment, access to health care and parks, Boston’s Downtown Crossing neighborhoods has been named one of the “most livable neighborhoods” in the U.S. — but there’s a caveat, according to an intensive AARP Public Policy Institute study on “The Most Livable Places at 50+” released this month.

The caveat? Income inequality and lack of opportunity.

The AARP Livability Index examined seven categories of livability — housing, neighborhood, transportation, environment, health, civic and social engagement and opportunity — using nationally available data to study every Census-defined neighborhood across the country, said Rodney Harrell, director of livable communities for the AARP Public Policy Institute. It’s the first study of its kind that crosses such wide category ranges and analyzes every U.S. neighborhood, he said.

The study considered the Downtown Crossing neighborhood as the eight blocks bordered by Essex Street, Washington Street, Chauncy Street and Milk Street. The neighborhood scored a perfect 100 on transportation access, a 98 on housing and a 91 on the neighborhood score, and also rated above average on environment (clean air and water) and social engagement.
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what was supposed to be lacking was the category of "Opportunity"?
 
whighlander said:
what was supposed to be lacking was the category of "Opportunity"?
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That does come off really oddly. If he had said "income and opportunity inequality" maybe that'd be true. As in, overabundance of opportunity for white collar well educated, and shortage of opportunity for less well educated people.

But as compared to many cities' downtowns, I don't even think that's true. there's a far more mixed range of businesses than one finds in a stock financial district sort of downtown.

Very perplexing thing to say.
 
West said:
That does come off really oddly. If he had said "income and opportunity inequality" maybe that'd be true. As in, overabundance of opportunity for white collar well educated, and shortage of opportunity for less well educated people.

But as compared to many cities' downtowns, I don't even think that's true. there's a far more mixed range of businesses than one finds in a stock financial district sort of downtown.

Very perplexing thing to say.
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The article explains it. Whigh's excerpt is not the full article (we can't legally post full BBJ articles).

"But the one category where Downtown Crossing ranked below 50 on the 100-point scale is the “opportunity” category.

For that category, the study considered factors such as income inequality, jobs per person, high school graduation rates, and how multigenerational the neighborhood is."
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Apparently DTX's high school grad rate is 64.5%, which is well below the nat'l avg of 81.3%. Kind of weird, as DTX barely even has high school students living there.
 
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datadyne007 said:
The article explains it. Whigh's excerpt is not the full article (we can't legally post full BBJ articles).



Apparently DTX's high school grad rate is 64.5%, which is well below the nat'l avg of 81.3%. Kind of weird, as DTX barely even has high school children living there.
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Data - that's part of the perplexment -- these kinds of analysis compare apples to kumquats and mangos

Within the geographical definition used for DTX [ Essex Street, Washington Street, Chauncy Street and Milk Street ] there are not really any legitimate statistics on the opportunity categories

....The study considered factors such as income inequality, jobs per person, high school graduation rates, and how multigenerational the neighborhood is.
“We’re trying to understand, through our metrics and policies, whether people of all types and needs are included,” Harrell said
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For instance until very recently you could probably count the number of high school students living in the DTX who were graduating in a given year on the fingers of one hand

I would have given the opportunity categories an Incomplete until at least enough students are living in the neighborhood to fill a small suburban town's highschool
 
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