Yes, and add to that the harborwalk across the street and down around Pier 4 and the ICA, becoming a really great neighborhood, one of the best in the city imo.
Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport
- Thread starter xec
- Start date
The space looks awesome but, by the same token, I get the same feeling I did as when I was last in the Seaport - I'm simply not cool enough to exist there. I guess that's a "me" problem, but I wonder sometimes if certain public spaces are so targeted to making upmarket clientele feel safe that they end up inadvertently exclusionary.
dshoost88
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,158
- Reaction score
- 2,510
I went to a design meeting for the Copley Place Tower project years ago and distinctly remember a 16-year-old resident of Tent City Apartments tell the developer he opposed the tower because Copley Place’s upmarket clientele focus made him—an African American living in low-income housing—feel excluded. When Simon Properties responded that everyone’s welcome at the mall, the teen emotionally retorted, “Then why do your mall security tail me, my family, and friends—brown people—every time we walk through there? Why do they intimidate us.”
Ten years have passed and I never forgot about that powerful interaction. Especially amid the reckoning nationally from the George Floyd Protests and Black Lives Matter movement. When it comes to the built environment, I agree it’s definitely possible some spaces inadvertently exclude certain people. However, another important question to consider is why people from one built environment feel excluded in another. As I’ve professionally and academically studied the built environment and human behavior, I think there are systemic inadequacies in the built environments that many people live among; work among; frequent for leisure. So inadequate that when they discover a place where everything is thoughtfully-designed, progressive, well-invested, and aspirational, it causes you to contemplate whether you’re worthy to be there (like visiting the rich kid’s mansion when you were little).
If the Harborwalk and new development in the Seaport works (from a street-level, anyway—not debating architecturally), then I say do as Jane Jacobs would: determine what works about the neighborhood and do more of that work elsewhere. Determine what doesn’t work about the neighborhood and stop. As more neighborhoods across the city begin to see long overdue investment and thoughtfulness put into their built environments, we will all feel richer. And that’s a good thing.
If the alternative is a public space that feels shady, dirty, messy, etc., then I’d prefer the upmarket approach every single time.
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2018
- Messages
- 1,422
- Reaction score
- 3,685
The plaza lighting is lovely, hope they maintain it well. Can't wait to see the ground floor filled in a bit to bring some life in, it was eerily quiet for the early weekend evening while the rest of the Seaport was still alive.
I walked through here twice during the day last week... and yea five years from now with a lot of this hopefully filled in with restaurants and bars - it could be a special place.
This being Boston though, I'm sure we'll fuck it up somehow... probably with two or three bank branches.
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 6,997
- Reaction score
- 1,735
That isn't a Boston thing, that's a YUPie development thing. The rents on these new retail spaces are so high (and layouts so large) that they basically require high end clients like banks to pop in.
Also, to play devils advocate, you think there are too many bank branches around until you actually need one and all of a sudden there are none to be found!
Also, to play devils advocate, you think there are too many bank branches around until you actually need one and all of a sudden there are none to be found!
Massachoicetts
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2019
- Messages
- 573
- Reaction score
- 712
Are they even leased out?
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 6,997
- Reaction score
- 1,735
Who knows. But I do know that plenty of new developments like this in NYC have never rented out their retail. Honestly, the future of retail is bleak and I think we've over built. You might see these turning into office space, health care facilities, or even apartments.
Massachoicetts
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2019
- Messages
- 573
- Reaction score
- 712
Or hopefully, restaurants and cafes!
Hah... this has actually been a problem for me when traveling. A couple years ago I needed a BofA while in Austin and there was a single one on Congress St for the entire downtown if I recall correctly. Very annoying.
DigitalSciGuy
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 670
- Reaction score
- 421
From Saturday.
Just striking how nothing in these photos existed 5 years ago. I really hope this space livens up after the pandemic and as the units fill up, but as y'all have cautioned, retail has been in a decline for years and many of these spaces may just fill up with banks and offices that may never really show much human activity inside (the NACA offices in my building at 225 Centre always keep their shades down and it adds no activity on Columbus Ave) unless CIC or WeWork sets up a co-working space (if WeWork even exists after the pandemic and the crash from its overvaluation).
Just striking how nothing in these photos existed 5 years ago. I really hope this space livens up after the pandemic and as the units fill up, but as y'all have cautioned, retail has been in a decline for years and many of these spaces may just fill up with banks and offices that may never really show much human activity inside (the NACA offices in my building at 225 Centre always keep their shades down and it adds no activity on Columbus Ave) unless CIC or WeWork sets up a co-working space (if WeWork even exists after the pandemic and the crash from its overvaluation).
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 4,558
- Reaction score
- 3,189
^ It is genuinely spooky that there are no people in your pictures. It looks post-apocalyptic.
dshoost88
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,158
- Reaction score
- 2,510
If your vision of 'post-apocalyptic' looks anything like DigitalSciGuy's photos, then I want in!
To me it doesn't look post-apocalyptic but it does look soooo gray...Could use a splash of color here and there. Maybe once the shops have signage it won't look so depressing.
And I still haven't reconciled myself to the choice of benches. Still hoping it's just a temporary pandemic expediency.
DigitalSciGuy
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 670
- Reaction score
- 421
Yeah, it definitely reads like I've stumbled upon the largely untouched upscale shopping district that everyone fled at the start of a zombie outbreak. In my headcanon, they all ran to the marinas to get their yachts out of cold storage and fled, so there was no one left to scuff up the place. Since the zombie outbreak happened before retail moved in, no scavengers have come through to smash windows and they'd be a garbage place to set up camp anyway. (YouTube has been serving me a lot of 'practical' zombie/end of days survival videos lately, for some reason...)
I definitely timed the shots to avoid the few folks walking through the space and there's definitely plenty of pedestrian activity right on Seaport Boulevard, even on a cold day like yesterday. Still can't shake how much it kinda feels like Canary Wharf was made out to be like in '28 Weeks Later' as the enclave of uninfected to restart society...
I definitely timed the shots to avoid the few folks walking through the space and there's definitely plenty of pedestrian activity right on Seaport Boulevard, even on a cold day like yesterday. Still can't shake how much it kinda feels like Canary Wharf was made out to be like in '28 Weeks Later' as the enclave of uninfected to restart society...
DigitalSciGuy
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2013
- Messages
- 670
- Reaction score
- 421
The benches are okay and I honestly like the touch of wood. (I'm looking to procure street furniture for a bus stop amenity program and I've become obsessed with choosing any bench material other than metal after the number of uncomfortable benches I've sat on during the pandemic to sit outside and eat food.) The styling of the arms is definitely a little discordant, though it's not too far off from that 'glam', quasi-art deco styling that's really popular on Instagram and the aesthetic of CB2 that's really in fashion right now. The barely present bench back is probably the most uncomfortable aspect of the benches.
Czervik.Construction
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
- Messages
- 1,878
- Reaction score
- 980
I just looked at the Alyx website.... wow.
I know Boston is lot more expensive these days and this is high end and in a desirable new building, but 550 sq ft studios for $3300/mo, 1 br for $3500-$5200 - that is wild. $5200 for a 1 br - albeit with 2 bathrooms and about 900 sq ft, that is top in the top end of Manhattan rentals.
I know Boston is lot more expensive these days and this is high end and in a desirable new building, but 550 sq ft studios for $3300/mo, 1 br for $3500-$5200 - that is wild. $5200 for a 1 br - albeit with 2 bathrooms and about 900 sq ft, that is top in the top end of Manhattan rentals.
Two free months though so NER is ~$2750/$2900-4300. The real top tier stuff in Manhattan starts around $6k.
It's all about the higher gross rents to satisfy the building's lenders (you're not lowering the price of the rental), and as a real estate trick it works better with commercial tenants (you throw them 2-3 free months over five years) than it does in residential buildings.