Encore Boston Harbor Casino | 1 Broadway | Everett

[Scalziand]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

If this is getting started next year then I imagine there are some actual plans for these improvements? I don't know how much $11 million gets you in the black hole that is Sullivan Square, but I imagine it is more than just fresh green paint for the bike lanes.

I'd hope it involves fixing the horrible side walk leading to Sullivan from Broadway that's half obstructed by the overpass pier.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.385...TXQeNtqKT2yc-JNwzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Best case would be adding a proper Perkins street entrance.

 

[stick n move]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

I don't disagree with this position. Instant games are particularly predatory and destructive.

With that said, if we're speaking about the spectrum of deleterious impacts that gambling can have on individuals, families, and communities, a lottery is positioned in differently on the "Richter Scale" than a slot or poker machine.

Definitely. A casino is an experience, you have to plan ahead, drive there, and its more of an entertainment experience- while also losing all of your money, than just buying a scratch ticket at a gas station and losing your $2 on the spot and you didn't even get a free drink. I've been to Vegas and hate gambling, but Casinos offer a pretty good amount of other options for entertainment and WYNN said you will be able to go through without ever seeing a slot machine- which is my biggest gripe about Vegas. In Vegas I went to the Mirage and in the art gallery you are able to see Davinci's only surviving model sculpture.... but you have to walk past 2,576,934 slot machines to get to it. Here it sounds like that wont be the case if you want to see the other things that casinos can offer.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

I don't disagree with this position. Instant games are particularly predatory and destructive.

With that said, if we're speaking about the spectrum of deleterious impacts that gambling can have on individuals, families, and communities, a lottery is positioned in differently on the "Richter Scale" than a slot or poker machine.

You really want to get political on this?
Name one area in a America where a Casino added real community value?
Vegas is the only exception since it evolved from a desert community.


The only good thing that comes out of this casino is they are cleaning land up that was completely destroyed by MONSANTO which should be under investigation for all the people in the surrounding areas that got cancer from this type of environmental corruption.

Where the hell was the EPA on this?

 

[dshoost88]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

You really want to get political on this?
Name one area in a America where a Casino added real community value?
Vegas is the only exception since it evolved from a desert community.


The only good thing that comes out of this casino is they are cleaning land up that was completely destroyed by MONSANTO which should be under investigation for all the people in the surrounding areas that got cancer from this type of environmental corruption.

Where the hell was the EPA on this?

I'd argue that the Harrah's in New Orleans is a nice link/bridge between the French Quarter and the Waterfront, is well-maintained, and complements the city's reputable nightlife scene year round (especially for bachelorette and bachelor parties).

I think you forget about the other good that comes out of casinos: jobs!

A large sect of the unemployed population have low educational attainment (i.e. no college degree(s)) and low job skills. While Cambridge and Boston scramble to secure/nurture economic giants in the life sciences, healthcare, education, engineering, and financial trades, low skill employment opportunities are biting the dust. The only exception, frankly, are anytime new retail and hotel/accommodation spaces get built here.

When the Wynn Boston Harbor employs 4,000 people in mainly low-skill jobs, it will have a drastically positive impact on the circumstances for thousands of families across the region. Many will have the means to reinvest their new earnings into their communities and others.

Lastly on your EPA question, this was not a federal site--it's a state one. The proper avenue is to comply with MEPA (the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act) and get approval from an EIR (Environmental Impact Report). The Secretary of Environmental Affairs determined the project complies with MEPA about a year ago (see certificate here).

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

^^^^
Good Post---You could be right that the Casino might offset because of Boston highly educated groups of people in the surrounding areas.

 

[Blackdog]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

If this is getting started next year then I imagine there are some actual plans for these improvements? I don't know how much $11 million gets you in the black hole that is Sullivan Square, but I imagine it is more than just fresh green paint for the bike lanes.

11 million will get you fresh green reflective paint.

 

[chmeeee]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Does anybody know if there is going to be public involvement, design hearings, etc for any of the mitigation work? That's still an important process even if this is privately funded mitigation rather than a public project, so I hope they're not just blindly designing and constructing our roadway network with no consult from the public.

 

[CSTH]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

I think you forget about the other good that comes out of casinos: jobs!


When the Wynn Boston Harbor employs 4,000 people in mainly low-skill jobs, it will have a drastically positive impact on the circumstances for thousands of families across the region. Many will have the means to reinvest their new earnings into their communities and others.

.

This is only true on a net basis of a significant portion of the money being spent at the casino comes from out of town (including the net market share gain from the CT casinos). That's why the casino promoters always make a lot of noise about 'destination' and 'resort' casinos.

Otherwise its just shifting local spending from other venues / activities. And all the profit is going to be headed out of town too.

 

[tangent]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

This is only true on a net basis of a significant portion of the money being spent at the casino comes from out of town (including the net market share gain from the CT casinos). That's why the casino promoters always make a lot of noise about 'destination' and 'resort' casinos.

Otherwise its just shifting local spending from other venues / activities. And all the profit is going to be headed out of town too.

I always try to hammer that point home. Economic activity that results in a net loss in capital is bad for the region. That is why things like manufacturing are so good for a local and regional economy because money comes primarily from out of state to support local income.

Sure the owners of these casinos could close the loop and invest all locally generated profits back into Massachusetts, but more likely they will invest a good portion of the profits out of state or into new casinos elsewhere. There is some break even point where as long as the revenues that are going out of state (rather than being reinvested in state) are matched by revenues coming in from out of state gamblers then the casino is at least not a loss for the local economy.

Of course you somewhat have to factor in the already built-in loss from Massachusetts residents that would otherwise have gone to Connecticut, Las Vegas or somewhere else to gamble. It is a local benefit if you can keep those people from going to Connecticut as much.

Still, the upshot of this is that local and state leaders need to realize that they are partners with Wynn now and to make this venture succeed not just for Wynn, not just for State and local revenues. but also for the local economy then we want and need Wynn to succeed in attracting as many out of state gamblers as possible.

In that, State and local interests diverge somewhat from Wynn. Wynn cares about the bottom line and doesn't really care where the gamblers are coming from. So it is really up to the state to focus on making sure that Wynn Boston Harbor is successful in attracting out of state gamblers.

Money from the casino needs to as much as possible go into making the surrounding area as attractive as possible so that in the first 5 to 10 years of operation we see a transformation of the area into a place that will continue attracting tourists over the next 50 years.

 

[boston85]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

I always try to hammer that point home. Economic activity that results in a net loss in capital is bad for the region. That is why things like manufacturing are so good for a local and regional economy because money comes primarily from out of state to support local income.

Sure the owners of these casinos could close the loop and invest all locally generated profits back into Massachusetts, but more likely they will invest a good portion of the profits out of state or into new casinos elsewhere. There is some break even point where as long as the revenues that are going out of state (rather than being reinvested in state) are matched by revenues coming in from out of state gamblers then the casino is at least not a loss for the local economy.

Of course you somewhat have to factor in the already built-in loss from Massachusetts residents that would otherwise have gone to Connecticut, Las Vegas or somewhere else to gamble. It is a local benefit if you can keep those people from going to Connecticut as much.

The math is not that simple. Looking at the equation from a net capital flow is not the way to go about it. If that was the case, you would conclude that trade deficits are always bad. Most economists will concur that the benefits of trade far outweigh the costs of running small deficits. Yes, you do not want to continually siphon capital out of the area, but you need to look at the overall impact.

Even if you assume that all the casino revenue comes from the local area, the casino buys services and goods, as stipulated in the community agreements from mainly local businesses, hires local employees, and pays local taxes. The worker and businesses use the salaries/revenue they earn from the casino on other goods and services in the area, increasing the economic multiplier. Higher employment and business activity in the area, leads to high property valuations. A better economy leads to increase in population, wealth, and outside investment. So on and so on. You need to factor in the secondary and indirect effects before weighing in on the fact that the casino is siphoning off profits and moving money out of town. Then factor in the use case that there are out of town patrons going to the casino and injecting money in to the casino and thus local economy.

Yes, the casino can take out more profits than the net effect, but it is just not as simple as, out of state money and subtracting profits out.

 

[choo]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

If you take away the social ills of a casino - (I know this is a big if and question of magnitude itself) - why shouldn't you look at a casino like any other entertainment business based on consumers spending their discretionary income.

This is how i think of gambling- I don't do it a lot or big- but i bet an amount i'm willing to lose and consider losing $200 at a table in a night the same way i would spending that money on Celtics tickets and concessions.

When an AMC movie theater goes in Assembly and shows films made in LA, we don't complain about a capital outflow to go to LA movie studios, AMC HQ and new theaters built in Texas. We say, great a movie theater that i will choose to spend my money at., a venue that provides some entry level jobs, and a venue that may spend some money at local suppliers for its own events.

Even if the consumers are all local, which I don't think they are, i think the repatriation of what is lost now to CT and RI is important.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Does anybody know if the Mystic River is just as polluted as the land on this development?
I remember hearing that the corporations around Everett were dumping in the river:
Monsanto, GE, Avaco Ect...

 

[statler]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

From a 2015 article:

Despite those scars, there's evidence that the Mystic is healing. At one point, part of the river was choked by an aggressive invasion of water chestnuts. But, thanks to an eradication program, the plants are mostly gone and the river is flowing again.

There are also a series of water quality and improvement programs that have actually made long stretches of the Mystic safe for boating and recreation. Parts of it are even swimmable — but there's a lot more work to do.

You can't help but compare the Mystic River to the Charles. Once upon a time, the Charles was dangerously contaminated. Today, it's one of the world's cleanest urban waterways, which provides a kind of model for what the Mystic River Watershed Association wants to do.

Edit: There is also this.

 

[dshoost88]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

This is only true on a net basis of a significant portion of the money being spent at the casino comes from out of town (including the net market share gain from the CT casinos). That's why the casino promoters always make a lot of noise about 'destination' and 'resort' casinos.

Otherwise its just shifting local spending from other venues / activities. And all the profit is going to be headed out of town too.

Wynn was selected by the gaming commission in the first place because of their track record luring visitors from around the world. Ask any person who's visited his hotels: they are a destination. Every dime of the $1 billion to $2 billion spent on each resort shows, and as such are a treat people believe is worth traveling for.

And in terms of 'shifting local spending from other venues/activities', I don't think that argument can be made for very long. Between 2010 and 2020, the City of Boston is forecast to see its population climb by 100,000+ people (nearly 20% growth). As the region continues to see population growth, economic growth, and (in this case) growth of the hospitality sector (i.e. # of hotel rooms), I really don't envision a scenario where Wynn cannibalizes local businesses in the long term. Just as I don't foresee the saturation of new movie theaters to the market as threatening to each other or existing venues... not unless they fail to innovate.

 

[CSTH]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Yeah the point is just that there's a difference between employing people and 'creating jobs' in economic development terms. Population growth per se is irrelevant, and so is innovation in the movie theater business.

And it's still located in between a Costco and a power plant. No one's going to get on a plane to come to this place. If you're on a plane to go to a Casino, you're on a plane to Vegas. His other properties are in Vegas and Macau.

For gamblers, this place will compete with Foxwoods, Mohegan Sun, and the lottery (and maybe day trading, for the 21-st century junkies). For luxury nightlife experiences, it'll compete with pro sports, concerts, and downtown restaurants and clubs.

Frankly, I doubt we'll notice any impact on a regional scale. It is what it is. Fine.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

This is only true on a net basis of a significant portion of the money being spent at the casino comes from out of town (including the net market share gain from the CT casinos). That's why the casino promoters always make a lot of noise about 'destination' and 'resort' casinos.

Otherwise its just shifting local spending from other venues / activities. And all the profit is going to be headed out of town too.

Profit yes (potentially). Payroll is still local, so it always does good for those 4,000 employees.

Now, I like many expect this particular casino to see lots of outside money being spent. Meaning mkney into the local economy. But, even if it doesn't see that. There is still a fair amount of the so called 'disposable income' many in the greater Boston area supposedly have. We have plenty of affluent folks around here. If they can afford it, then it's not a real loss to the area. The fear is for the trouble gamblers and down on their luck, last five bucks hoping to make it rich or die, poor schlubs people seem to think will be here at all hours.

There will be some for sure. I just am willing to wager it won't be as pervasive as so many seem to think.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

This is what I envision for the Everett Casino when built:
The ultimate degenerate zone near Boston (the new upscale Combat Zone)
High End Hookers
Drug Dealers buy up all the Everett Real Estate for distribution purposes
Traffic (RED Everywhere)
Lots of FIGHTS (Dude looking at my girl type mentality)

Basically I said this before.
Back to the Future II (BIFF'S CASINO) And the aftermath will be EVERETT.

I'm sure I'm wrong.

 

[tangent]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Trade deficits are not that simple in the short term, but it is that simple in the long run. At some point trade deficits really do matter and will be a drain on the economy. Economic activity is restrained when there is a lack of capital.

Employing people with local gambling money is fine, but it is a short term gain in employment and long term loss if the money that could have otherwise been used to employ even more people is continuing to leave the state.

All I am saying is that a sizable chunk of the tax revenue from the casino can and should go a long way towards investing in plans to remake that area of Everett and Sullivan Square into more of a reality. An area that at least won't scare off tourists and will provide additional economic benefits.

Plenty of people from around here are going to go to Wynn because it doesn't take two hours to drive to and won't really care about what it looks like around the casino. But what we need is a lot of people to come to Boston and visit Wynn even though it takes 2, 3 or 5 hours to fly to.

And state and local leaders need to worry less about Wynn competing with local businesses for local dollars and more about Wynn being competitive with other cities that also have casinos.

Sure "recapturing" the money that would otherwise go to Mohegan or Foxwoods will be of significant benefit. But there is every reason not to be satisfied with the status quo.

At the very least Boston should be competing to be a better East Coast destination than Montreal, Philadelphia, New York and Atlantic City.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

The fear is for the trouble gamblers and down on their luck, last five bucks hoping to make it rich or die, poor schlubs people seem to think will be here at all hours..

I don't get this fear. So some schlub with $5 left in his pocket is going to make his way to the casino and then what? Play penny slots for 2 hours? $5 likely won't even get you one single hand of blackjack 95% of the time at the Wynn if not all the time. There are PLENTY of places in greater Boston for the troubled gamblers down to their last few dollars. I see them daily in every convenience store lining up for scratch tickets, cigs alcohol etc. Those expecting to find a high concentration of degenerates, bros looking for fights, thieves, drug dealers and whores at the Wynn are going to be very disappointed.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Those expecting to find a high concentration of degenerates, bros looking for fights, thieves, drug dealers and whores at the Wynn are going to be very disappointed.

Then what is the sense of going to the casino?