Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Providing rapid transit access to the most densely populated town in the state?

We all know that's a bogus a stat. Somerville neighborhoods rarely approach the density of everett or chelsea neighborhoods. It's Somerville's lack of commercial or industrial neighborhoods within the municipality that gave birth to that oft-repeated line.

If my building lot seceded from boston and became an independent municipality I'd be living in the most densely populated city in new England. Would I get a green line extension then or would I still have to walk 4 blocks to maverick?

Also I think the mbta brought rapid transit service to Somerville in the 1980s w davis station and most of the population within walking distance of Sullivan is Somerville too.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

So how 'bout that Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail?

Anybody witness the grade-crossing and bridge work going on this summer?

(by the way: take the GLX debate to the GLX thread)
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

(by the way: take the GLX debate to the GLX thread)

Uhhh damn and I had stats I want to share. (mods?)

Just saying, the US census tries to assign census tracts to encompass 4000 people at the most - that's a standard to measure from. Belmont's (also bogus) claim is that somehow Somervile isn't dense enough to support a light-rail system - which is a specious argument. Of the two towns, the census tract covering Bellingham Square in Chelsea is the most populated at 9000. The next six tracts in order of population are all in Somerville (5000-7000), which is well above average for an American city and well within the average density required to support light rail. The argument isn't that Somerville isn't dense enough, it's that other areas are so dense that deserve/need to be wired in to the rapid transit with better facilities.

Anyways, FR/NB....what's the impact of MBTA-CR service on the new port infra down on the coast? Are they sharing trackage?
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Anyways, FR/NB....what's the impact of MBTA-CR service on the new port infra down on the coast? Are they sharing trackage?
From Taunton-Southward, yes.

And the cost problem with FR/NB rail is the silly insistance that the Stoughton-Taunton shortcut-through-wetland segment be reactivated and electrified and be single-track none of which make sense, and they get worse when you put them together.

Adding capacity via Middleboro (double tracking) or via Attleboro (passing sidings or Fairmont electrification & tie-in) and then sharing the CSX freight system southward would be much more cost effective (and get you weekend Cape Flyer-style service from BOS to both FR & NB, and also let you sponsor new Amtrak weekend New York to FR/NB/Hyannis serivice--THAT is a real system for

- Park and Ride at Attleboro, Taunton, & Middleboro with usable frequencies
- Weekend Summer Service that actually delivers tourists from Boston, RI, Connecticut and NYC.
- Good freight service for everything else.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

From Taunton-Southward, yes.

Adding capacity via Middleboro (double tracking) or via Attleboro (passing sidings or Fairmont electrification & tie-in) and then sharing the CSX freight system southward would be much more cost effective (and get you weekend Cape Flyer-style service from BOS to both FR & NB, and also let you sponsor new Amtrak weekend New York to FR/NB/Hyannis service

Haven't they already programmed funds for the Middleborough Secondary work in the current CIP? Could that an precede an attempt to salvage some sort of Cape Flyer and/or Cape Codder restoration service pattern - or just standard maintenance?
 
The single track bottlenecks on the South Station to Braintree route need to be addressed even if you don't expect to ever have the Old Colony Lines serve station stops they aren't already serving, so it probably makes a lot of sense to just plan on double tracking South Station to Braintree commuter rail with the costs of doing that not charged to South Coast Rail, and then run South Coast Rail via Braintree and Quincy.

(And part of this probably ought to involve acknowledging that having 4 Red Line tracks and only one commuter rail track at Savin Hill makes zero sense. It made some sense when it was one freight track with no commuter rail. A new flyover south of Savin Hill might provide the most straightforward service pattern, with all future Braintree trains stopping at Savin Hill, but another option would be to keep the southbound Red Line trains on their current tracks at Savin Hill, and use the northbound platform track at Savin Hill for both Braintree and Ashmont trains; the simplest way to do that might involve left hand running on the Braintree branch.)
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

new Amtrak weekend New York to FR/NB/Hyannis

I suspect Amtrak is going to claim that on Friday evenings, wasting a Connecticut River bridge slot on a train going to Hyannis instead of South Station doesn't make sense. However, having a Providence to Hyannis train meeting Amtrak service for a cross platform transfer at Providence might work. Or maybe extending Shore Line East train 1636 (arrives New London at 5:42 PM) to Hyannis would work.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

The single track bottlenecks on the South Station to Braintree route need to be addressed even if you don't expect to ever have the Old Colony Lines serve station stops they aren't already serving, so it probably makes a lot of sense to just plan on double tracking South Station to Braintree commuter rail with the costs of doing that not charged to South Coast Rail, and then run South Coast Rail via Braintree and Quincy.

(And part of this probably ought to involve acknowledging that having 4 Red Line tracks and only one commuter rail track at Savin Hill makes zero sense. It made some sense when it was one freight track with no commuter rail. A new flyover south of Savin Hill might provide the most straightforward service pattern, with all future Braintree trains stopping at Savin Hill, but another option would be to keep the southbound Red Line trains on their current tracks at Savin Hill, and use the northbound platform track at Savin Hill for both Braintree and Ashmont trains; the simplest way to do that might involve left hand running on the Braintree branch.)

No one's touching the OC pinch through Dorchester until the State is willing to engage with Southeast Expressway again (if they ever want to go down that HOV lanes will solve everything path). MPO mapped out a conceptual plan for the eliminating the flyover and burying + double tracking OC from Southampton St to the Neponset Embankment as part of a 93 widening/HOV lane project. Also finally settling the "which track will the inbound come to" at JFK. That's not going to be any cheaper than SCR though, I'd say it'd carry some real benefits (especially if they tacked another infill station on the Braintree branch), but OC only happens with 93.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

No one's touching the OC pinch through Dorchester until the State is willing to engage with Southeast Expressway again (if they ever want to go down that HOV lanes will solve everything path). MPO mapped out a conceptual plan for the eliminating the flyover and burying + double tracking OC from Southampton St to the Neponset Embankment as part of a 93 widening/HOV lane project. Also finally settling the "which track will the inbound come to" at JFK. That's not going to be any cheaper than SCR though, I'd say it'd carry some real benefits (especially if they tacked another infill station on the Braintree branch), but OC only happens with 93.

Why would one be confident that everyone is committed to the do nothing option if the gold plated option is too expensive? The key to addressing the Old Colony bottlenecks is to look at how to value engineer a solution so that something can actually get built, and the best bang for the buck with respect to capacity is reallocate one of the Red Line tracks at Savin Hill to become the second commuter rail track. (If it improves commuter rail service enough that some passengers switch from Red Line to commuter rail, Red Line dwell times south of the Neponset might even improve enough to offset any increased travel time on the Red Line that might come from making the extra station stop at Savin Hill.)

The sections in Quincy where there's a roadway right next to the tracks filling the right of way will probably be the bigger challenge to Old Colony double tracking.

(Yes, eliminating the fourth Red Line track at Savin Hill cuts off the crazy transit pitches that want to extend the Cabot yard leads into a new tunnel for revenue service somewhere. But I don't think any of the crazy transit pitches have successfully argued that their plans make more sense than addressing the Old Colony bottlenecks, and there'd be nothing stopping us from going back several decades later to add the express bypass tracks at Savin Hill in the expensive tunnel as part of a bigger Cabot Yard lead tunnel project.)
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Well, well, look what MassDOT just tweeted:

Mass. Transportation @MassDOT
#Taunton: new Dean Street #RR crossing, part of #SouthCoastRail early action work. #Freetown #NewBedford

Ce-b2lLW4AAgemo.jpg:large


https://twitter.com/MassDOT/status/715962228172800001
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Looks good. Last time I went through that intersection, I practically knocked out a filling. MassDOT is slowly but surely upgrading and eliminating crossings on this line. There is still active freight on the "southern triangle" of Taunton, Fall River, and New Bedford and projects like these benefit freight rail and roadways.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Jesus Christ...this is generic freight work for Mass Coastal RR. They've been replacing crossings all around Taunton, FR, NB for the last 2 years. Including on the branches and industrial stubs that have jack squat to do with the magic South Coast FAIL rainbow-and-ice cream sharting unicorn. It's that region's turn; before that MassDOT was upgrading a bunch of crossings in Central and Western MA. Can these guys ever just call it what it truly is? It's freight SGR...nothing more, nothing less. Freight freight freight freight freight. Freight needs non- ass-condition grade crossing surfaces too. Business is up on the Dean St. industrial track. Derailing on Route 44 because the potholes have loosened up the crossing rails to spaghetti is a bad thing. It's a state-owned line crossing a state highway. Ergo, the state's going to do the work. What a concept!


Those bridges in downtown New Bedford that got TIGER grant-funded for replacement were freight projects. They were weight-restricted, falling-apart pieces of scrap metal inhibiting any freight unloading worth its salt in that big freight yard downtown, preventing Massport from doing anything with the port, and necessary to replace for all the road work they've been doing the last several years around Route 18. Terribly boring, mundane freight project the state had to do as an I.O.U. for that humongous CSX line purchase so Mass Coastal had ability to send more freight business to the CSX interchange and make it worth CSX's balance sheet to outsource those lines. TIGER grants are easy to score for freight; there's an obvious revenue payback. They've whiffed at all attempts for SCR grants because the feds no longer think it fits the "regional rail" mold and think--like the rest of the logical world--that it's just a hugely flawed and ludicrously mismanaged state project.

Didn't stop Governor Patrick from staging a golden-shovel ceremony at the first bridge to be touched and exclaim "SOUTH COAST RAIL IS UNDERWAY!!!", with the Standard-Times spending the next 3 years parroting that nonsense every time a traffic cone sprouted up under the bridges. Must keep the fantasy going. Must keep believing at all cost. Pay no attention to your eyes; the color of the sky over the South Coast is pink polka-dots.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^Well, F-Line, since the state govt is corrupt and worthless, this project is pretty likely to go through eventually. Nevermind that there's twenty other projects that in person-dollar-hours-saved projections would have a much much much bigger impact. Ugh.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^Well, F-Line, since the state govt is corrupt and worthless, this project is pretty likely to go through eventually. Nevermind that there's twenty other projects that in person-dollar-hours-saved projections would have a much much much bigger impact. Ugh.

Don't get me wrong, as freight projects what they're doing now is fine. It was all wrapped up in that megabucks public-private CSX deal. CSX wanted to focus on its intermodal freight profit center; it wasn't interested in running so many lower margin door-to-door locals all over Eastern MA. So CSX got its relocation to state-of-the-art Worcester and clearances to double-stack shipping cubes in the deal. The state got its real estate windfall. And then CSX cut deals with 2 private shortlines--Mass Coastal down here and Grafton & Upton RR in Norfolk County--to take over some of the smaller branchlines that didn't fit the corporate strategy. They did it because the shortlines would put more elbow grease into developing door-to-door business, increase carloads at their interchanges with CSX, and CSX would make higher profit margins than if they kept it to themselves. The state helped play matchmaker to sweeten its haul, and took on some I.O.U.'s to make SGR upgrades on these branches so the shortlines could make good on their promise to develop more business. Massport was bouncing around in there too with its long-range proposals to upgrade the minor ports at FR and NB, which supported these parties' goals to develop more business. Last year the state followed-up and bought the Framingham Secondary from CSX, the route they take from Worcester and Framingham to interchange with Mass Coastal in Middleboro every night. Piles of new rail and ties got dropped all along it over winter so they could start upgrading it this spring.

All of this is an inseparable part of that big wad of public-private deals and the ensuing I.O.U.'s the state took on so it could get its haul. Everybody will make money, and not a single commuter train has to run on any of these tracks--South Coast or Foxboro--for the investment to eventually pay itself off. Though clearly buying up a lot of prospective commuter rail territory was a motivation.



They would actually look somewhat smart to a skeptical electorate who doesn't think they're very smart if they'd just ^tell it like it is^. "Yeah, we spent money to make money. Look at how much money Worcester's making! Look at all this cool stuff like Beacon Park we got that's going to make us money. We're stimulating the local industrial and shipping economy right now on the South Coast. Stimulate the economy, and someday you're eventually going to need better transit; we got that covered too by owning all these lines. Goddamn, we are such magnificent bastards when it comes to stimulating the economy for you taxpayers! Re-elect me!"

You'd think they would have *slight* motivation to play that up as a general-purpose confidence builder. To build a case that their commitment to developing the region is a little broader than promising everyone a magic pony? To build any sort of case that they can be trusted with large sums of money without suspicion? To make some sort of confidence-building suggestion that they're doing something productive while this dumpster fire of a transit project goes for retooling?

Nope. "FREE PONIES FOR EVERYONE TODAY! [applause]" Even when they're half-right, they can't help but double-down on being twice as wrong.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

FLine -- only gonna nit one pick -- Massport has nothing to do with Fall River or New Bedford Harbor, or Gloucester or Newburyport, or Plymouth or Wood Hole harbors for that matter

Massport's only maritime responsibilities are associated with the Port of Boston including the Conley Container Terminal and the Black Falcon Cruise Port and ancillary properties located on or near to Boston Harbor
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Ten lanes. Ten...lanes...on the Expressway. Because of a public transit project. That will wreck every frequency on every existing Old Colony branch. Thus requiring the entire South Shore to once again drive the Expressway every morning like they did prior to 1997.

On ten lanes. Count 'em: ten of them.


Bonus: This will probably all cost more than the $3 billion price tag they're trying to "save" money from.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

The long history of putting transit underground in order to create more room for cars continues.

And this will be called a 'billion dollar commuter rail tunnel' rather than a 'billion dollar HOV lane'....
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I'm taking solace in the fact that the costs will be so comical it'll be blocked on "no Big Dig 2" grounds. If this actually happens I have no idea what the fuck transpo planners are doing- is the car culture so deeply ingrained there that this looks remotely reasonable to anyone?
 

Back
Top