Fort Point Infill and Small Developments

stefalarchitect said:
I know we've concluded they'll never move, but how much is their entire plot of land valued at? 40 acres in downtown Boston must be some pretty good cash.
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It's a win-win-win-win....for everyone if they move.

Boston is hot as a pistol and interest rates are rising.

P+G should sell NOW and they can manufacture in Lawrence or Lowell and pocket $billions$ for that Fort Point land. How is that not business-savvy?

That Channel should be a world class urban space.
 
odurandina said:
We'll see close to 290' here.

Amazon's HQ's first project site? :)
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Shockingly, I actually think your outlook is too low, Odurandina.

This parcel is less than 400 yards from South Station.
 
stefalarchitect said:
I know we've concluded they'll never move, but how much is their entire plot of land valued at? 40 acres in downtown Boston must be some pretty good cash.
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I don't think we have concluded that they'll never move... I think we really just concluded that they will never move to another location in or around Boston.

If Gillette moves manufacturing facilities then it is moving wholesale to someplace much much cheaper than Boston. Which would be a loss of jobs and taxes that would be unfortunate. So pushing/hoping that they will move had really bring with it a plan for more jobs and state and local tax revenue than the city would be losing.

I personally hope that there is still room for manufacturing in Boston, it really does bring money into the area and gives people job options.

But selling off parking lots makes great sense if they can just built a parking garage for the parking they actually need.
 
tangent said:
I don't think we have concluded that they'll never move... I think we really just concluded that they will never move to another location in or around Boston.

If Gillette moves manufacturing facilities then it is moving wholesale to someplace much much cheaper than Boston. Which would be a loss of jobs and taxes that would be unfortunate. So pushing/hoping that they will move had really bring with it a plan for more jobs and state and local tax revenue than the city would be losing.

I personally hope that there is still room for manufacturing in Boston, it really does bring money into the area and gives people job options.

But selling off parking lots makes great sense if they can just built a parking garage for the parking they actually need.
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Your excellent post misses 3 key points, however.

1) The city/state would NOT be losing any tax revenue. It would mean INCREASED tax revenue from higher paying jobs, residents, businesses. The land that Gillette vacates would not be fallow.

2) "I think we really just concluded that they will never move to another location in or around Boston." Who is "we"? I never concluded that. Why not Chelsea or Lawrence or Lowell. That way they can keep most of their personnel (not have to retrain new hires) and pocket the difference on the real estate. For those who may argue that new hires in Mississippi would be a huge savings over experienced/trained workers in Lawrence/Lowell, I would say that the personnel you envision to be dirt cheap are also at the manual level that will be automated in the not to distant future anyway.

3) And if Gillette moves out of state, but we get 3 times as many tech/service workers in exchange why is that a bad thing. Look, I get the whole nostalgia for manufacturing, but we also used to have gas station pumpers, toll takers, bank tellers, etc. Economies evolve and change. We'll have more barristas, hospitality workers, etc. along with the high paying jobs too.
 
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shmessy said:
Your eloquent post misses a key point, however.

The city/state would NOT be losing any tax revenue. It would mean INCREASED tax revenue from higher paying jobs, residents, businesses. The land that Gillette vacates would not be fallow.
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The point would be that there is a trade away of value by replacing Gillette. I would hope that it would be net positive, but it is hard to say and it depends on how many jobs are supported and where the money comes from.

There are 1,300 jobs there right now. And according to their website "The South Boston facility adds over $300 million to the Massachusetts economy annually." That money comes from manufacturing here and selling product largely out of state.

https://boston.pglocations.com/about-gillette/

So if 1,300 jobs go away, including manufacturing jobs, and $300 million disappears from the Massachusetts economy every year then that is a lot to make up before you get to net positive with whatever you can dream up replacing them.

More importantly, once you replace the parking lots at Gillette, then there is still underdeveloped land in the area that is better on balance to redevelop than displacing Gillette.

Replacing the surface parking and keeping Gillette is optimal for the foreseeable future.
 
tangent said:
The point would be that there is a trade away of value by replacing Gillette. I would hope that it would be net positive, but it is hard to say and it depends on how many jobs are supported and where the money comes from.

There are 1,300 jobs there right now. And according to their website "The South Boston facility adds over $300 million to the Massachusetts economy annually." That money comes from manufacturing here and selling product largely out of state.

https://boston.pglocations.com/about-gillette/

So if 1,300 jobs go away, including manufacturing jobs, and $300 million disappears from the Massachusetts economy every year then that is a lot to make up before you get to net positive with whatever you can dream up replacing them.

More importantly, once you replace the parking lots at Gillette, then there is still underdeveloped land in the area that is better on balance to redevelop than displacing Gillette.

Replacing the surface parking and keeping Gillette is optimal for the foreseeable future.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but given this parcel and the rest of the Gillete facility land, that should amount to approximately 30 acres along the bottom of the "U" of Fort Point Channel. That should be enough space for at least a third of what Amazon H2Q is talking about (and if not them, 8-10 medium large companies employing around 10 k overall in a potentially world class/dense area. If only 1,300 jobs take up that amount of land in the future, then someone built one helluva large park there.

Look, I'm sure some people still miss all those fishery jobs in the Seaport. Anyone want to return to the 1970's?

Let's face it - - Gillete and the US Postal Service are just sitting in the way compared to what this could become. I can only say, let's get going on it.
 
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Precisely. Love to see Gillette in Lowell, Lawrence, Worcester, Springfield, New Bedford, Fall River, Brockton, etc....
 
...would just like to add that, in addition to manufacturing jobs, Gillette-Boston has significant research and development activity in Boston. Boston-area university engineering students have internships or co-ops there...this is an important piece of the city's eng. educational ecosystem. So while it is fine to talk about moving manufacturing around the state...especially to areas that would really benefit from it...I wouldn't say we should wish away the entire operation.

I'm just excited about today's news about this parcel (Thanks Rev Paco for the graphic):
reverend_paco said:
That lot must be this:
TYT2oVxh.png


as this is almost exactly 6.5 acres.

to try your own:
Area Finder
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Every time I had gone by it, the parking lot seemed full, especially once GE bought the other parking lot section.

Have to agree that if Gillette leaves, they won't be going to Lowell or Lawrence. Selling this parcel might be part of them scaling back to leave eventually.
 
jklo said:
Every time I had gone by it, the parking lot seemed full, especially once GE bought the other parking lot section.

Have to agree that if Gillette leaves, they won't be going to Lowell or Lawrence. Selling this parcel might be part of them scaling back to leave eventually.
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I feel like it's more likely that they're cashing out. A parking lot doesn't add any value to their operation here on its own. If they were selling buildings that would be a different story.

I imagine traffic on A St will be much better once the lot is closed! So many cars will be off the road here.
 
sm89 said:
I imagine traffic on A St will be much better once the lot is closed! So many cars will be off the road here.
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Now that I agree with. Looks like it is directly on top of the Pike though, don't know if that would cause problems in building a big foundation.
 
The highway tunnel goes right under this parking lot. How much does that affect what can be built on top?
 
stevebikes said:
The highway tunnel goes right under this parking lot. How much does that affect what can be built on top?
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Uncertain of the limitations, but I imagine they're similar to the Bullfinch Triangle. I believe the concrete tunnel segments at this location were cast in a drydock and then pushed into place using giant hydraulic jacks. No idea if that method of fabrication and deployment is further limiting.
 
Isn't at least 1/2 of this parcel on terra firma? (seems that way according to Google maps)
 
Wasn’t this area the dry dock where they built the tunnel segments? They jacked under the active train lines on the west side of Ft Point. Here they buried the tunnel segments when they didn’t need the dry dock anymore.
 
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