Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

I like the shape and proportions of this building but it fails for me in other departments. I think it does a poor job relating to its neighbors, it just doesnt fit in well with the back bay skyline. I also dont think it fits in well with the climate here- we get a ton of grey days and it looks bad on grey dull days.

I've seen a couple of shots on newscasts when it was getting dark from some weird angles and it reminds me of the weird goth kid in the corner just lurking. Some interesting lighting effects would help it and I think that's why everyone is hopeful about a lit logo accent but I dont think it's happening...Overall IMO its only getting a 5.5/10
 
I thought the glass was too dark when it started to climb up the side. Gave it time for the interiors to be added hoping it would lighten up... and it did slightly. It's still too dark though.

Oh well.
 
I think the glass looks great and I think the building itself looks great. My biggest issue is with the exact location of it. It would have looked better if it was lined up with the Hancock and Pru closer to the river, and it would have looked better if it had some height differentiation from the Pru. It looks particularly galling from the Longfellow Bridge, as it's half hidden behind the Pru but overall ruins the Back Bay's balance.

On the other hand, the way all 3 towers line up from the Fenway area is spectacular. We really need a few more large buildings in the Back Bay to better "integrate" this into the new skyline. Parcel 15 will help, and that Huntington tower that is sitting on the backburner will also help. A revival of the Copley Place Tower would go a long way toward restoring a new balance in the area.

How about just going the full 100% and putting up a 925' including spire at the Kings garage. I always knew this tower would make the area feel "weird" without additional substantial towers to fill out the skyline.
 
This is something I noticed as well seeing this building in a photo in another thread. The glass looks awfully dark and without any LED's on the side or a lit crown, it seems really dark for the often grayness of the Boston sky.

However, the flip side if that could be shiny silvery/blue glass, like you get in NYC. Where I live in Hudson Yards, there is a lot of shiny glass, and the buildings start to look the same.

On my building (one of the very shiny new glass boxes in HY), the reflection is so pronounced that it makes the window frames, etc. stand out in a not very elegant way. Looks a little clunky.

I am not sure if the glass here was a highly reflective sort like I have or others in the area would work here - I think it would stick out even more.

What do you guys think would improve things?
 
Boston is the Aleutian Islands and they do this drab color? i think slightly blackish green, more greenish, more aqua-greenish or aquabluish, more New Yorkish or just more elegance would have been welcome change to contrast the Pru and 111 Huntington. Half the glass in Vegas is better. The greyish whatever you call that color is a huge letdown. The opaque crown is so provincial Boston.

Imagine if 111's crown was stretched out vertically 3X. Would'a been epic.

Superlative job with those nicely aligned photos. :smile:
 
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DHZ I agree. Height differentiation would have made it better. I think once 1000 Boylston goes up it will look a little better...
 
we're nearing over-saturation for reflective/blue glass in town. i like that 1 dalton is a shade not seen elsewhere in the city.

i also think the overall thing will effectively "pop" more than it currently does once the remaining gaps in the cladding are filled in (elevator, missing windows, other construction-related cleanup).

as for relating to its neighbors, if there's one thing cobb is justly celebrated as a master of it's working within context of surrounding buildings and geography. folks thought JHT didn't work well with copley square back in the day and who's saying that now?

the one critique i absolutely do agree with is that the homogeny between the pru, JHT, and 1 dalton is too static. i'm not a height fetishist at all, but if 1 dalton had been 100 feet taller the overall effect on the skyline would have been much more pleasing.
 
Copley needs to be sold and built... has to. Its in too key of a position. It holds the fate of the high spine. Will the back bay be thrown together or will it be a master stroke. With 1 dalton built at pru height but off to the right it is in a special position that does 2 things. It helps complete the spine from all 4 sides. From the front and back youll have a center spine and left and right spine. That position perfectly lines up with both 111 huntington and copley tower from the front/rear and then from the charles/south end it lines up with the main spine of the pru, hancock, copley, 1000 boylston.

From the charles view it would have completed the main spine. Along with 1 dalton and 1000 boylston it would have evened out the gaps and tapered off away from back bay towards fenway and also towards downtown. Perfection. Finished.




Then from the front/rear it lines up perfect in the right spine. See how copley is perfectly in line with 111 huntington, then the triangle where 1 dalton is built. Its literally meant to be.



Then 1000 boylston lines up in the left spine with 888 boylston and 500 boylston. Again meant to be...



1000 boylston will taper the spine



And dont even worry bout this



Cuz...



But its perfect. Even from the opposite angle it creates perfect balance and spacing and again theyre both on the right spine too.

Boston02124 said:
66BE7E10-CC09-4C9E-B211-EDD57E3B945C_zpsbb81qnfa.jpeg
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Even this angle with less impact is still a loss without copley
DZH22 said:
IMG_0543 by David Z, on Flickr
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There needs to be a genuine push to get something done there. They should not be able to hold the back bay hostage. Either build or sell, pick one. Sitting on the sidelines benefits nobody and actually actively hurts the spine which was planned. I vote the city uses eminent domain for the air rights plot if they wont sell... fuck em its too important. Snooze ya loose. Sorry but were gettin shit done so you can step tf to the side if your not going to follow through on your 20 years of bullshit and failure...
 
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Eminent domain to justify taking a department store and building a luxe tower? Christ, rein it in, lad.
 
I completely agree. The loss of the Copley tower is the biggest blow I can think of in recent years to potential look of the skyline. Ironically, the addition of 1 Dalton makes that gap look worse.

Here's hoping that the Bsck Bay Garage development gets underway quickly.
 
I just want to see an easier/more streamlined approval process, and less patchwork zoning. Then you'll see more development.

I don't think eminent domain for a tower makes any sense. If the department store land is valuable enough, private companies will build a tower on it. As retail dies that becomes more likely.
 
HarvardP said:
Eminent domain to justify taking a department store and building a luxe tower? Christ, rein it in, lad.
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Nope I didnt say that, dont do that. I said the air rights, thats a windswept cobble stone corner plot without a sidewalk... and thats only if they wont sell it to a developer. Theres no reason for them to sit on it and not let anyone else do anything with it, get out of the way. Once they realized they couldnt build they should have sold it to someone who could. In most situations it would be whatever, but they have the last air rights in copley square... ever. Thats what changes things.

That or transfer the air rights to the hancock garage development which is just across the street, that could work too and doesnt have as tricky construction. If the state can rescind the air rights and put them up for sale for the immediate surrounding plots that would be good, as it sits now its ridiculous.

 
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^^ZUMA NOBU which is better does it really matter?

meddlepal said:
LOL okay, this thread has derailed.
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not so much: Stick just wants to talk about ____ing skyscrapers.

Stick derailments aren't really that.

It happens quite often with Stick and other of his ilk.

We need a thread called,

LET'S TALK ABOUT ____ING SKYSCRAPERS I WANNA DO YOU?
 
Speaking of Zuma, I brought this up many pages back, but Zuma is on the outer end of ridiculous expensive. What is the over/under on this lasting more than a year.
Not that people in Boston don't have money to spend, it is just not Boston's style.

The one is NYC is over the top, very expensive and generally busy, but no one I know has been there more than once, if at all. It's a models and bottles, flashy place.

Hotel guests, some condo residents, Mandarin Oriental guests, maybe birthday/anniversary/special occasions - is that enough to keep this place afloat?
 
Only 1 way to find out. Dalton st is kind of out of the way too, but who knows maybe thats a plus for exclusivity or whatever.
 
Czervik.Construction said:
Speaking of Zuma, I brought this up many pages back, but Zuma is on the outer end of ridiculous expensive. What is the over/under on this lasting more than a year.
Not that people in Boston don't have money to spend, it is just not Boston's style.

The one is NYC is over the top, very expensive and generally busy, but no one I know has been there more than once, if at all. It's a models and bottles, flashy place.

Hotel guests, some condo residents, Mandarin Oriental guests, maybe birthday/anniversary/special occasions - is that enough to keep this place afloat?
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I just looked at the Zuma menu and don't see much of a difference in prices between Zuma and places like Oishii in the South End, O Ya etc. i.e. places that have loyal followings and have been around a LONG time. Pabu, while much newer, also has similar prices in the same genre. If we can support 20 high end steak places downtown, I think 4 or 5 high end sushi/Japanese places can make it work.
 
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