Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

[datadyne007]

Sexy motherfucker.

Data, you were talking about the copley project almost like you were in the know, is that still on track? Its been pretty quiet for a while now

I attended meetings for Copley Place, but am not involved in the project at all. If anything, I believe Seamus was involved at some point (CDs made it to 90% before being changed? irrc?), but don't quote me on it.

 

[FenwayResident]

I'm not arguing against the concept of perspective, just the magnitude being presented in that render. Check out this google maps perspective that is pretty much exactly where the render's perspective is. If we were to believe the render, in that google maps photo the tower would extend beyond the top of the screen. I'm sure it will appear taller than the pru, but not to the magnitude displayed in the render.

 

[datadyne007]

I'm not arguing against the concept of perspective, just the magnitude being presented in that render. Check out this google maps perspective that is pretty much exactly where the render's perspective is. If we were to believe the render, in that google maps photo the tower would extend beyond the top of the screen. I'm sure it will appear taller than the pru, but not to the magnitude displayed in the render.

You are correct and it's not entirely the perspective. The sheer scale of the tower is also off. Most "real-life" renders like this one are created by rendering the tower separately and then dropping the tower onto a photograph, masking it behind buildings as appropriate. In this case, they didn't scale the tower down enough when they put it in the background. It's both too tall and too wide.

 

[nepatz11]

I always enjoy the comment sections on these articles:

SpotPonc01/14/15 07:22 AM
And away goes the 360 degree of the city and surrounding communities. The incredible views from the Sky Walk on top of the Pru will be impacted by the taller building. All so that rich people can add another residence to their housing inventory. And the only ones from the shrinking middle class who will ever set a foot inside the new tower will be the maids. Sorry, but I have seen enough of the luxury housing being built all over Boston.

I saw that comment too, just so insane how negative some people are.

I couldn't help but comment on it!

 

[George_Apley]

Wait... what? hahahaha.

 

[jpdivola]

Any sense of this buildings street level presence? I can't tell if it will have an impact on Boylston or Newberry, Copley Square, Tremont along the Commons, etc?

This building is a huge win for the skyline, but will probably not have much impact on most people's Boston street level experience. Not complaining at all, MT, Copley and the other proposals will all probably skew in the other direction.

 

[FenwayResident]

Any sense of this buildings street level presence? I can't tell if it will have an impact on Boylston or Newberry, Copley Square, Tremont along the Commons, etc?

This building is a huge win for the skyline, but will probably not have much impact on most people's Boston street level experience. Not complaining at all, MT, Copley and the other proposals will all probably skew in the other direction.

Do you mean retail presence or how it will look from the street?

If it's the former, then there won't be much retail. I believe there will be one restaurant in the hotel but that's it.

If it's the latter, you will be able to see this building from pretty much any vantage where you can see the Pru. Pretty much all of Back Bay, Fenway, and the South End as well as parts of Beacon Hill and Cambridge.

 

[George_Apley]

This building is a huge win for the skyline, but will probably not have much impact on most people's Boston street level experience. Not complaining at all, MT, Copley and the other proposals will all probably skew in the other direction.

The parcel this is being built on is about as No-Man's-Land as you can get in the Back Bay. This definitely won't be a game changer for pedestrians in the area (short of looking up at it). This one has mostly a skyline impact.

 

[tmac9wr]

The argument every "boo rich people!" commenter seems to throw out about this and pretty much any other luxury development in the city is that nobody is living in, or will live in any of them and they're just foreign investments for rich people abroad.

Is there any truth to this or are they simply pulling this out of their butts?

On a side note, the comments there never fail to make me smile. Everything horrible in this world is going to happen to the city of Boston because this building is going to be built.

 

[datadyne007]

The argument every "boo rich people!" commenter seems to throw out about this and pretty much any other luxury development in the city is that nobody is living in, or will live in any of them and they're just foreign investments for rich people abroad.

Is there any truth to this or are they simply pulling this out of their butts?

China’s Town
The priciest homes, the best schools, the hottest handbags: From Newbury Street to the waterfront, big-money Chinese buyers are spending millions. Are we cashing in or selling out?

By Ben Schreckinger | Boston Magazine | October 2014

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/09/30/chinese-real-estate-boston/

---
The Millennium Tower website is also available in a couple Asian languages.

http://millenniumtowerboston.com/asia/simplified/?link=1

---
Note: Simply providing info. These aspects do not necessarily support the claim that all units will be empty, but it's been found that some investors are sitting on property.

 

[tmac9wr]

China’s Town
The priciest homes, the best schools, the hottest handbags: From Newbury Street to the waterfront, big-money Chinese buyers are spending millions. Are we cashing in or selling out?

By Ben Schreckinger | Boston Magazine | October 2014

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/09/30/chinese-real-estate-boston/

---
The Millennium Tower website is also available in a couple Asian languages.

http://millenniumtowerboston.com/asia/simplified/?link=1

---
Note: Simply providing info. These aspects do not necessarily support the claim that all units will be empty, but it's been found that some investors are sitting on property.

Very interesting. Yea, they seem to say at this point there isn't a glut of empty properties in Boston but without careful planning it could happen in the future, as it has in London & New York.

Hopefully we can do enough to combat that sort of thing. At this point, Boston's boom isn't just residential...it's also very much related to the economic explosion in biotechnology & life sciences in the area. Hopefully the economic boom will be able to support the residential boom enough to prevent luxury housing in the city from turning into a place to simply park some cash.

 

[whighlander]

Do you mean retail presence or how it will look from the street?

If it's the former, then there won't be much retail. I believe there will be one restaurant in the hotel but that's it.

If it's the latter, you will be able to see this building from pretty much any vantage where you can see the Pru. Pretty much all of Back Bay, Fenway, and the South End as well as parts of Beacon Hill and Cambridge.

Fenway -- have you set foot in the other Four Seasons?

No one is going to spend the money it takes to have a room in a Four Seasons without it being comfortable and accommodating and offering a number of dining experiences

 

[jpdivola]

The article sort of addresses the foreign investor issue:

China’s Town
By Ben Schreckinger | Boston Magazine | October 2014

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/a...estate-boston/

So far, Boston’s foreign real estate buyers are either living in their properties or renting them out. Even at Millennium Place, Boston’s flashiest luxury development, owners aren’t leaving their units dark, says Baumert, of Millennium Partners, its developer. “Not to say that it won’t happen here,” he says. “I think that it’s coming.”

This seems like an overblown issue. Many of these foreign investors buy these properties to rent them out. So it is simply transforming a condo into an apartment. In other cases, the people are legitimate immigrants who are buying property to live in Boston, no different than anyone else buying property in the city. Doesn't seem they should be singled out.

Yeah, there probably are a few people who hold on to them simply as a place to crash when they are in town. But, I doubt there are that many people and most of them would stick to NYC, London, Paris. And at the end of the day, that is really more of a function of demand, not supply. Better to have them underwrite the construction of new luxury towers (and the relating tax dollars) vs. bidding up the prices on the existing low rise housing stock in central Boston.

If pied-a-terres are really a problem in Boston, it seems the solution is to impose a special tax on them, rather than blame new construction (which is helping to ameliorate the "harm" anyways).

 

[Mongo]

The article sort of addresses the foreign investor issue:

China’s Town
By Ben Schreckinger | Boston Magazine | October 2014

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/a...estate-boston/


This seems like an overblown issue. Many of these foreign investors buy these properties to rent them out. So it is simply transforming a condo into an apartment. In other cases, the people are legitimate immigrants who are buying property to live in Boston, no different than anyone else buying property in the city. Doesn't seem they should be singled out.

Yeah, there probably are a few people who hold on to them simply as a place to crash when they are in town. But, I doubt there are that many people and most of them would stick to NYC, London, Paris. And at the end of the day, that is really more of a function of demand, not supply. Better to have them underwrite the construction of new luxury towers (and the relating tax dollars) vs. bidding up the prices on the existing low rise housing stock in central Boston.

If pied-a-terres are really a problem in Boston, it seems the solution is to impose a special tax on them, rather than blame new construction (which is helping to ameliorate the "harm" anyways).

The resident property tax exemption is sort of a tax on pied-a-terres.

Also the condo fees alone make a luxury condo a pretty shitty investment if you aren't renting it out to cover the fees.

 

[whighlander]

Mongo -- I don't think condo fees really matter if you are buying in the $10M+ range -- those kind of purchasers have a different ethos than do the rest of us

 

[kmp1284]

Fenway -- have you set foot in the other Four Seasons?

No one is going to spend the money it takes to have a room in a Four Seasons without it being comfortable and accommodating and offering a number of dining experiences

I'm guessing you haven't been there in a while either. There's only one restaurant - The Bristol. Aujourd'hui closed about five years ago.

 

[tobyjug]

The pied-a-terres owners already pay more than their share of tax. Children in school (67% or so of each tax dollar): no. Demand for public services: less.

So tax them even more? Doesn't seem fair to me. Probably not lawful either.

 

[Mongo]

Mongo -- I don't think condo fees really matter if you are buying in the $10M+ range -- those kind of purchasers have a different ethos than do the rest of us

Most of these condos are less than 10M, the vast majority of the Millennium place condos were 800k to 2M. Condo fees for an empty condo add up after awhile and really wipe out any potential upside for the investment.

 

[stellarfun]

Mongo -- I don't think condo fees really matter if you are buying in the $10M+ range -- those kind of purchasers have a different ethos than do the rest of us

Exactly.

There is a Four Seasons Residences being developed in Washington DC, and the total number of condos offered is being reduced because prospective buyers are wanting larger units. And I expect the majority of the units to be third and fourth homes for their owners. They are unloading cash in safe havens.

This tabulation of who is buying all the property in Mayfair/Belgravia/Grosvenor only accounts for 69 percent of the purchases.

http://zeenews.india.com/business/r...-among-top-buyers-of-london-homes_102028.html

But it gives an idea of how foreigners are buying most of the property.

Only one in 10 new apartments in Miami is bought as a primary residence.
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/10/something_very_strange_is_happening_in_miami/

 

[paperless paul]

Not sure I really captured it. But this is the most lavish groundbreaking performance I have seen. About 4 catering trucks and looks like a bar mitzvah inside. It must be for more than just the 20m photo-op. Suppose this is what it takes to sell a $5m condo.