General Boston Discussion

[TheRifleman]

I would have agreed with you $20 trillion dollars ago. But right now we don't have the monetary system you think we have. We have a debt based monetary system. Debt represents money put into the economy. I don't think it should be represented on the books of the Federal Government as debt... because it isn't. It is mostly held by the Federal Reserve which created new money to buy that debt. We simply haven't seen all that new money having the effect you think it should have. The US dollar is not really that devalued and inflation hasn't been a problem.

If anything it looks to me like the US doesn't have enough circulating money to provide liquidity to all the things that need doing.

I agree with you concerning the monetary policies changing to a debt based.

The problem with the private Federal Reserve Bank is the debt is the American Taxpayers money being devalued.

I disagree with you concerning inflation. There is major inflation concerning the essentials of everyday necessities.
Homes
Healthcare costs
Colleges
Books Colleges
Food
Oil (is kept high but not out of control $2.7-3.00 Gallon)

What is in deflation?
Electronics
Plastics
Clothes
Toys

If the benefit of the cost is (in your own words) "Multiples", then why not do it?

So let me get this straight, Rifleman: If tomorrow, you could be certain that spending $25 billion on the NSRL, the Blue-Red Connection and Blue Extension to Lynn would bring a low "multiple" of three ($75 billion) in benefits to the region within 20 years - - - what would you decide?

I'm fascinated to hear your answer.

.

Investing in long-term infrastructure for a city should be viewed as very cautious and how to create a more efficient system without ongoing yearly costs through the decade or century.

I do support a massive Transit overhaul for all Red, Blue, Orange, Green purple for Massachusetts----Create a plan and make sure the plan includes how the system can become energy self-sufficient also.

If your going to spend 75 Billion in tax dollars make sure that it will last 100years along with not costing us a dime for yearly expenses. Along with having the most honorable individuals manage this money. Anything over the estimates will not be paid to the private companies and could possibly looked at as fraudulent bidding practices.


What I would decide is MBTA Transit expansions and super high velocity energy efficient cars.

 

[shmessy]

I agree with you concerning the monetary policies changing to a debt based.

The problem with the private Federal Reserve Bank is the debt is the American Taxpayers money being devalued.

I disagree with you concerning inflation. There is major inflation concerning the essentials of everyday necessities.
Homes
Healthcare costs
Colleges
Books Colleges
Food
Oil (is kept high but not out of control $2.7-3.00 Gallon)

What is in deflation?
Electronics
Plastics
Clothes
Toys





Investing in long-term infrastructure for a city should be viewed as very cautious and how to create a more efficient system without ongoing yearly costs through the decade or century.

I do support a massive Transit overhaul for all Red, Blue, Orange, Green purple for Massachusetts----Create a plan and make sure the plan includes how the system can become energy self-sufficient also.

If your going to spend 75 Billion in tax dollars make sure that it will last 100years along with not costing us a dime for yearly expenses. Along with having the most honorable individuals manage this money. Anything over the estimates will not be paid to the private companies and could possibly looked at as fraudulent bidding practices.


What I would decide is MBTA Transit expansions and super high velocity energy efficient cars.

That's alot of bloviating obfuscation to avoid answering: Would you spend $25 billion if it benefited the investing entity by "multiples".

You going on about pie in the sky impossibilities such as "finding the most honorable individuals to manage this money" (yeah, who judges that and how many times throughout history have people been fooled by what seemed at one point to be "honorable individuals" - - your statement there is an Aesop's Fable.

Forget your dreams of finding "honorable people". With all the overspending on the Big Dig through technical difficulties unimagined and corruption, it STILL has benefited the Commonwealth by MULTIPLES of its ultimate pricetag.

You can flatulate as much as you want here about the cost overruns (and I don't like them either). But your opposing the Springfield-Worcester-Boston high speed rail idea due to the cost overruns of the Big Dig have been shown to be a complete sham in the black and white objective economic sense.

The goal should be to make changes to the cost management system, not to simply reject any new large scale project. You are an over-reactor.

.

 

[TheRifleman]

Forget your dreams of finding "honorable people". With all the overspending on the Big Dig through technical difficulties unimagined and corruption, it STILL has benefited the Commonwealth by MULTIPLES of its ultimate pricetag.


.

So would any other project in any city could enjoy the MULTIPLES of 26 Billion being created in their city. The problem you get over time is servicing the area with ongoing inflated costs and expenses. Govt always expects inflation but the problem with inflation is local & state salaries do not keep up govt & state expenditures.

 

[shmessy]

So would any other project in any city could enjoy the MULTIPLES of 26 Billion being created in their city. The problem you get over time is servicing the area with ongoing inflated costs and expenses. Govt always expects inflation but the problem with inflation is local & state salaries do not keep up govt & state expenditures.

The discussion in which you were bloviating was about the Springfield-Worcester-Boston high speed rail.

YOU, yes YOU, decided to deride the idea by using the Big Dig as your template.

Then you acknowledged (after bloviating about the costs) that the return was several "MULTIPLES" of the cost.

Now you are moving the goalposts to other cities and regions. I'm not going to spend time on whether or not it is a good idea for Biloxi, Mississippi.

You're just trolling at this point and are wasting everyone's time here.

.

 

[TheRifleman]

The discussion in which you were bloviating was about the Springfield-Worcester-Boston high speed rail.

YOU, yes YOU, decided to deride the idea by using the Big Dig as your template.

Then you acknowledged (after bloviating about the costs) that the return was several "MULTIPLES" of the cost.

Now you are moving the goalposts to other cities and regions. I'm not going to spend time on whether or not it is a good idea for Biloxi, Mississippi.

You're just trolling at this point and are wasting everyone's time here.

.

My point is if you invest 26billion anywhere you will get positive multiple results for your investment. The problem is the 26billion was never yours to make that investment. Nothing is free thats what people don’t understand.

 

[Charlie_mta]

Rifleman,

I hear ya. I'm a fiscal conservative myself and vote that way. That being said, I'd rather see the Government spend funds on an American city than waste it overseas shoring up some corrupt regime.

 

[shmessy]

My point is if you invest 26billion anywhere you will get positive multiple results for your investment. The problem is the 26billion was never yours to make that investment. Nothing is free thats what people don’t understand.

Sentence #1 - "anywhere" is patent baloney - - Spending $26 billion on a Big Dig in Biloxi, Mississippi wuldn't produce the "multiples" of benefit it produced for Boston/Cambridge.

Sentences #2 - brings to mind the birds and the bees convo with a young child about where babies come from.......do you know where infrastructure comes from? Do you think they just magically appear because God created them or a stork flew them in? Or do they actually come from public spending? Which, yes unfortunately, also involves a screwing - but hopefully someday society can invent an Immaculate Conception.

Sentence #3 is you hallucinating - - who said anything about anything being "free"? I don't think anyone here would ever believe such a thing when it comes to infrastructure. There are costs and benefits. We have been discussing that about the Big Dig and possibly high speed rail connecting Springfield-Worcester-Boston.

The only person you should be addressing your misdirected post is to your deranged President who printed up a $12 billion debt to pay off the farmers for his trade war mistake. Compared to THAT, the Big Dig was a paragon of accountability.

 

[TheRifleman]

Rifleman,

I hear ya. I'm a fiscal conservative myself and vote that way. That being said, I'd rather see the Government spend funds on an American city than waste it overseas shoring up some corrupt regime.

I'm not even that conservative. That's the insane part. I do agree about spending the money at home than overseas thou.

Sentence #1 - "anywhere" is patent baloney - - Spending $26 billion on a Big Dig in Biloxi, Mississippi wuldn't produce the "multiples" of benefit it produced for Boston/Cambridge.

Sentences #2 - brings to mind the birds and the bees convo with a young child about where babies come from.......do you know where infrastructure comes from? Do you think they just magically appear because God created them or a stork flew them in? Or do they actually come from public spending? Which, yes unfortunately, also involves a screwing - but hopefully someday society can invent an Immaculate Conception.

Sentence #3 is you hallucinating - - who said anything about anything being "free"? I don't think anyone here would ever believe such a thing when it comes to infrastructure. There are costs and benefits. We have been discussing that about the Big Dig and possibly high speed rail connecting Springfield-Worcester-Boston.

The only person you should be addressing your misdirected post is to your deranged President who printed up a $12 billion debt to pay off the farmers for his trade war mistake. Compared to THAT, the Big Dig was a paragon of accountability.

I am not a fan of Trump spending habits and continues to show the same path that Bush, Obama have had us on financially.

#1 If you spend 26 Billion dollars anywhere the area will improve the quality of life for the groups of people that live in the area. Just watch the movie about Barry Seal in American Made with Tom Cruise when the CIA located him in Mena, Ark-- and did you see everyone around him profiting because of the drug money that was coming in. Everybody in town was making money and the town of Mena was prospering. The CIA threw him under the bus thou.

#2 I'm actually a big advocate of big infrastructure projects that help out the overall population. But don't come at the taxpayers with a 3 billion dollar quote only to overspend by 23 Billion--- That's absolutely disgraceful and only hurts this country and our hardworking families.

#3 Money is financial freedom---Nothing in America is Free. That's my point. When you have Federal Govts ripping us off with overspending it only drives up the cost of the everyday necessities for the taxpayers and families.

You can spin whatever you want but this country is run by a corporate elite that make all the decisions including who is elected and who is not. For Christ sake the Dems rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders and nothing was done. Very sad.

 

[shmessy]

I'm not even that conservative. That's the insane part. I do agree about spending the money at home than overseas thou.

I am not a fan of Trump spending habits and continues to show the same path that Bush, Obama have had us on financially.

#1 If you spend 26 Billion dollars anywhere the area will improve the quality of life for the groups of people that live in the area. Just watch the movie about Barry Seal in American Made with Tom Cruise when the CIA located him in Mena, Ark-- and did you see everyone around him profiting because of the drug money that was coming in. Everybody in town was making money and the town of Mena was prospering. The CIA threw him under the bus thou.

#2 I'm actually a big advocate of big infrastructure projects that help out the overall population. But don't come at the taxpayers with a 3 billion dollar quote only to overspend by 23 Billion--- That's absolutely disgraceful and only hurts this country and our hardworking families.

#3 Money is financial freedom---Nothing in America is Free. That's my point. When you have Federal Govts ripping us off with overspending it only drives up the cost of the everyday necessities for the taxpayers and families.

You can spin whatever you want but this country is run by a corporate elite that make all the decisions including who is elected and who is not. For Christ sake the Dems rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders and nothing was done. Very sad.

Honestly, I've reached the end of this discussion with you. This WAS a very direct question.

1) Initially you opposed the Springfield-Worcester-Boston High Speed Rail idea "Lets just print another 5 Trillion dollars and build windmills with flowers & unicorn decals on them."

2) Then you deflected a very direct question about the benefits (even after the badly bloated cost) of the Big Dig by stating "Any city in this country would benefit somehow with 26 Billion Tax dollars in infrastructure improvements by multiples. " (emphasis mine). I find that statement half correct and half insane - - because the amount of the "multiples" of benefit depends on the particular city/region and the particular project situation - - The Boston Big Dig was not the Biloxi Big Dig, or the Bud Shuster Highway - but you like to paint with a very general brush, so that works in your world I guess.

3) I have no real issue with #3, except the solution (if you want human progress) is not to throw up your hands and oppose every development project because of past screw ups/corruption. Things change and can be made better - - whatever you may think about Mayor Walsh or Governor Baker, they ain't Mayor Curley or Governor Ed King. That's a world view that you, evidently, don't have but others of us do.

SOLVE the problem, don't revert to a cave. People are going to need transportation infrastructure.

I'm done on this discussion. Peace out.

 

[datadyne007]

Honestly, I've reached the end of this discussion with you. This WAS a very direct question.

I'm done on this discussion. Peace out.

You should have reached the end before it began. Arguing with Rifle is like arguing with a wall.

 

[TheRifleman]

.

1) Initially you opposed the Springfield-Worcester-Boston High Speed Rail idea "Lets just print another 5 Trillion dollars and build windmills with flowers & unicorn decals on them."

.

When I made the comment it was more directed to the Big Dig and the 26 Billion not the proposal for the High Speed Rail.

I have said this many times on my posts. I believe in infrastructure but there needs to be accountability concerning local and state leaders.
I'm also okay with boosting private industry in good faith.

Not political scenarios like Menino and the downtown scenario. Crying about giving Vornado Tax incentives then forces the group to sell the project to the Millennium group only to issue tax incentives to them.

 

[bakgwailo]

When I made the comment it was more directed to the Big Dig and the 26 Billion not the proposal for the High Speed Rail.

I have said this many times on my posts. I believe in infrastructure but there needs to be accountability concerning local and state leaders.
I'm also okay with boosting private industry in good faith.

Not political scenarios like Menino and the downtown scenario. Crying about giving Vornado Tax incentives then forces the group to sell the project to the Millennium group only to issue tax incentives to them.

Vornardo kept a hole in the ground on purpose to try to extort the city for money to finally build. Their CEO literally got drunk and bragged about this tactic during a talk he gave that they would force cities to pay them by keeping them hostage via large holes in important areas.

 

[odurandina]

Correct.

Sorry Rifle;

BUILD THE GOD DAMNED TAX ASSET.

Get 40 Trinity, Back Bay Station tower/s, SST, Central Wharf rising already.

It's INSANELY expensive to build here. You have to give out deals.

Build the pike decking from 93 to Back Bay.... shit, get Simon on the line and do the site prep.

Those seemingly sweet deals that got that shyte built before and after the Great Recession is a parsecs-distant, secondary issue.

Yes, a few people REALLY did make a lot of money.

So what: it's the moving forward part and the momentum that followed (that matters).

The people making those decisions got it. You're not going to see many repeats of that; until the next big downturn, (anyway).

Thank Christ they still do (get it) or Boston would be in far worse shape than it's in.

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

If the benefit of the cost is (in your own words) "Multiples", then why not do it?

So let me get this straight, Rifleman: If tomorrow, you could be certain that spending $25 billion on the NSRL, the Blue-Red Connection and Blue Extension to Lynn would bring a low "multiple" of three ($75 billion) in benefits to the region within 20 years - - - what would you decide?

I'm fascinated to hear your answer.


.

Blue-Red Line connector to Charles MGH is short sighted.

Only a couple of problems. 1- You sometimes have to let train, after train, after train, go by on the Red Line if trying to board anywhere after Harvard Station. Meaning by Central and Kendall the trains are overstuffed. So good luck getting the Red Line at Kendall to get to Charles MGH to transfer to the Blue. MIT is still be ~ a mile away from the Blue Line. Better to just walk in that blizzard across the bridge to get the Blue Line home above the cold water rather than wait half an hour to try to get on the Red Line to go one stop. (It's like the Downtown Crossing to State Street connection issue all over again 50 years from now.)

2- The Urban Link that is proposed to go down the Grand Junction Rail line still won't connect with the Red Line nor the Blue Lines directly as planned. Hence it might make more sense to have the Blue Line tunnel under the Charles and land on the Cambridge side of the river. That would open up East Boston up directly to MIT/East Cambridge. I propose putting the Turn around for the Blue Line at Main/Vassar Streets and Galileo Galilei Way in Cambridge.

Once the Urban Link is built, the Blue Line would be able to connect with that line which would head towards Assembly Row Somerville, and also Allston/Brighton Landing. Thusly connecting MIT with a Rapid Bus Transit line towards Brookline and the Longwood Medical area. with the Blue This will take more pressure off the 66 bus which has chronic bus bunching.

 

[JumboBuc]

Blue-Red Line connector to Charles MGH is short sighted.

Only a couple of problems. 1- You sometimes have to let train, after train, after train, go by on the Red Line if trying to board anywhere after Harvard Station. Meaning by Central and Kendall the trains are overstuffed. So good luck getting the Red Line at Kendall to get to Charles MGH to transfer to the Blue. MIT is still be ~ a mile away from the Blue Line. Better to just walk in that blizzard across the bridge to get the Blue Line home above the cold water rather than wait half an hour to try to get on the Red Line to go one stop. (It's like the Downtown Crossing to State Street connection issue all over again 50 years from now.)

2- The Urban Link that is proposed to go down the Grand Junction Rail line still won't connect with the Red Line nor the Blue Lines directly as planned. Hence it might make more sense to have the Blue Line tunnel under the Charles and land on the Cambridge side of the river. That would open up East Boston up directly to MIT/East Cambridge. I propose putting the Turn around for the Blue Line at Main/Vassar Streets and Galileo Galilei Way in Cambridge.

Once the Urban Link is built, the Blue Line would be able to connect with that line which would head towards Assembly Row Somerville, and also Allston/Brighton Landing. Thusly connecting MIT with a Rapid Bus Transit line towards Brookline and the Longwood Medical area. with the Blue This will take more pressure off the 66 bus which has chronic bus bunching.

Huh?

The overcrowded Red through Cambridge will be largely fixed by new train sets coming on line c. 2021. Those trains are already ordered and under construction; they'll be here before we know it. Halting further Red Line development because of that is the epitome of short-sited. Plus, Red-Blue at Charles would cut down dwell times at Park and DTX, facilitating operations along the entire Red Line.

And if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that Red-Blue at Charles is inferior to walking from Kendall to Bowdoin? What?

Red-Blue at Charles is, all things considered, pretty low-hanging fruit. A tunnel under the river is decades (plural) away at best. Same goes for Urban Ring along the Grand Junction. And even if we do, one day, run Blue to Kendall, it should still stop at Charles along the way. So Red-Blue at Charles is a complement to Blue to Kendall, it's not a substitute.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

[fattony]

Red-Blue at Charles is, all things considered, pretty low-hanging fruit. A tunnel under the river is decades (plural) away at best. Same goes for Urban Ring along the Grand Junction. And even if we do, one day, run Blue to Kendall, it should still stop at Charles along the way. So Red-Blue at Charles is a complement to Blue to Kendall, it's not a substitute.

I agree with this. Blue to Kendall is a great idea, but it is an AND not an OR, with Blue to Charles/MGH.

 

[CSTH]

What do we want?

Blue to Kendall and then on to Longwood/Brookline via North Station, West Station & Kenmore!

When do we want it?

Approximately 4 decades from now!

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

What happened to the super-smart group that would argue on everything I would say.
KMP, Justin, Kentxie and the rest of the clowns.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2017/04/30/boston-traffic/2/
Boston Traffic Sucks—Here’s How to Fix It

How our city & state representatives spent the money on special deals and interests not what was best for the Boston Taxpayers.
Transit continues to get worse and worse everyday now.

The Massachusetts taxpayers should demand an AUDIT on all these side deals. And what did we get left?
High cost of living,
Traffic Gridlock around the surrounding areas of Boston
A bunch of Illegals living on Section 8 in million dollar multi-units.

Remember that.

Giving away MILLIONS in corporate welfare to G.E. and attempting to give away to Amazon too.

 

[Digital_Islandboy]

Huh?

And if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that Red-Blue at Charles is inferior to walking from Kendall to Bowdoin? What?

Red-Blue at Charles is, all things considered, pretty low-hanging fruit. A tunnel under the river is decades (plural) away at best. Same goes for Urban Ring along the Grand Junction. And even if we do, one day, run Blue to Kendall, it should still stop at Charles along the way. So Red-Blue at Charles is a complement to Blue to Kendall, it's not a substitute.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Hey, sorry for the lack of clarity. I agree Blue Line to Kendall is preferable to Bowdoin. In lieu of the fact that the tight turnaround and huge traffic to be experienced could be problematic to the hospitals in the area, and it seemed like a large amount of the cost would be working in the Charles MGH area. I was saying a one shot and done would be preferable (or even creating a stub with the partial leads towards Kendall if not actually building or casting/sinking tubes on the bottom of the river yet. That way once the tubes are floated in hopefully they could just connect it up.

I was more saying if you're at Kendall (and environs) it is actually quicker when the red line has delays to walk to Charles MGH than to bother trying to get on the red line train to go one stop. It would be better if the Red is broken down you could board somewhere on the Cambridge side bypass the Red Line pinch point and connect elsewhere within the system. ~D.I.

 

[TheRifleman]

Too bad Boston doesn’t have a thanksgiving parade right down the greenway—path