General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

There becomes a point where not filling positions and paying out overtime becomes more expensive than hiring to fill positions. We've reached this point and gone far, far past it.

Secondly, my question is this for the guys "working" insane overtime. Is it actually worked overtime, or is it mandatory paid time? I.e. Is he called in for extra work, but no matter how long it takes, the worker is paid a minimum 4 or 8 hours at overtime pay.

I suspect some of this is going on, but this is still an insane number to make that work.

Wormtown -- it seems to be a complex scam based on Family Medical Leave Act + the trigger for overtime is working more than 8 hours in a day [not the traditional exceeding of 40 hours]


So here's how it works:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_politics/2015/12/t_chief_wants_to_curb_excessive_overtime

MBTA workers bank overtime after more than eight hours worked in a single day, while federal regulations require most workers receive overtime pay only after they work more than 40 hours in a single week, according 
to Shortsleeve.

According to union contracts, T workers are allowed to call out sick and then pick up more work hours and shifts on different days in the same week, which means they are paid higher overtime rates for roughly the same hours on the clock, T 
officials said.....
Shortsleeve said the T has hired an outside firm to track time off through the Family Medical Leave Act, including authenticating requests and following up with doctors.

A Herald investigation earlier this year uncovered abuse at the T of the FMLA, which allows workers to take unpaid time off for a serious illness or to take care of a sick relative. The federal leave provision was used by 50 percent of Carmen’s Union members in fiscal 2014 — compared with up to 10 percent in the state government, according to Shortsleeve.

Then the pièce de résistance -- the T Carmen's Union Pension is set based on the highest 3 years of wages -- so you spend 3 years working a full year overtime and you can then retire and collect for the rest of your life

-- and if you should happen to get injured say lifting a box -- well then you can retire early and collect the full value of the pension

Greece here we come....

This has become so blatant an abuse that even the House Speaker is concerned

State Speaker of the House Robert A. DeLeo said he’s waiting to see what the MBTA control board will do to corral costs at the T.

“I was impressed with the figures in terms with what some people are taking in at the T,” DeLeo said yesterday on Boston Herald Radio’s “Morning Meeting” show. “My first thought was how can one person work so many hours and even just working the hours, how they 
be effective?”

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

The state should fight the unions on these practices if they think they can get away with more fare hikes and service cuts. At the very least, put a cap on the pension rate and give overtime only after working 40 hours/week.

 

[FK4]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

^is it actually true that MBTA emplyees get paid overtime if they work over eight hours in a single day? That is absolutely ridiculous if true. Like utterly absurd. Anyone who actually works an eight hour day is a lucky man.

Edit - this is just unreal. It truly makes me sick that this is actually the case . I know of nowhere else where this is the case and the 40hr mark should be the only case where overtime is paid. That 50 percent of these guys used FMLA is nothing but egregious abuse. I am so glad the fiscal control board was created... They should have one for every state agency.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_politics/2015/12/t_chief_wants_to_curb_excessive_overtime

 

[Scalziand]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

That's LIRR tier pension abuse.

 

[CSTH]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

..anyone else remember the 'calling in sick' kerfuffle from last winter? It would appear that the other shoe has dropped...

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

..anyone else remember the 'calling in sick' kerfuffle from last winter? It would appear that the other shoe has dropped...

Yep. Call-out sick and work two 16 hour days and get paid way more than if you worked a regular work week. I don't blame the employees. I blame the system that encourages this behavior. The system is broken and needs to be removed. Fight the union.

 

[underground]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

^is it actually true that MBTA emplyees get paid overtime if they work over eight hours in a single day? That is absolutely ridiculous if true. Like utterly absurd. Anyone who actually works an eight hour day is a lucky man.

You're not wrong that few people only work 8 hours a day anymore, but it's also 100% Race to the Bottom to criticize a work-place/union/whatever for sticking to it.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

You're not wrong that few people only work 8 hours a day anymore, but it's also 100% Race to the Bottom to criticize a work-place/union/whatever for sticking to it.

It is not wrong to call out these overtime practices. These practices are wrong. MBTA employees make more than any other comparable agency's employees. In itself that isn't wrong. But when paired with pushes to increase fares for people who have no other option, the fact that these are "public servants" and the organization is in so much debt and staring down major deficits, IT IS WRONG!

 

[FitchburgLine]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

You're not wrong that few people only work 8 hours a day anymore, but it's also 100% Race to the Bottom to criticize a work-place/union/whatever for sticking to it.

Racing to the bottom sounds fantastic. The public benefit from cutting the pay of MBTA workers in the pursuit of more affordable transit far outweighs the benefit of the MBTA as a jobs program. The T's job is to provide the max possible transit per dollar, and any ancillary goals involving employee compensation should be subordinate to that goal.

 

[Tombstoner]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

Yep. Call-out sick and work two 16 hour days and get paid way more than if you worked a regular work week. I don't blame the employees. I blame the system that encourages this behavior. The system is broken and needs to be removed. Fight the union.

Why wouldn't you blame the employees?? Yes, there are structural facilitators of corruption, but do you not expect that people have an internal moral compass? Just because my boss isn't around to watch me steal doesn't mean I can't be blamed for stealing.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

Why wouldn't you blame the employees?? Yes, there are structural facilitators of corruption, but do you not expect that people have an internal moral compass? Just because my boss isn't around to watch me steal doesn't mean I can't be blamed for stealing.

That example is very different. By stealing, you would be breaking the law. These employees did not break any rules. Rather, the rules were/are screwed up.

 

[cden4]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. But unfortunately that's how a lot of people seem to operate.

Just like how one SHOULDN'T drive in a bus lane or bike lane because they are not a bus or a bike, but because they know the likelihood of getting a ticket is practically zero, they do it anyway.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. But unfortunately that's how a lot of people seem to operate.

Just like how one SHOULDN'T drive in a bus lane or bike lane because they are not a bus or a bike, but because they know the likelihood of getting a ticket is practically zero, they do it anyway.

Again, I disagree with the analogy. If your employer tells you that you can work overtime and you say yes, you have done nothing wrong. If you steal, that is wrong. If you drive in a bus/bike lane, that is wrong. These people are taking overtime that is offered to them. Do not vilify the bus drivers, maintenance workers, and cleaning crews for working overtime when offered to them. Instead, vilify the system that created this practice.

Would you turn in your salary to your boss if you thought you were overpaid? Of course not.

So far, both of you have compared this to breaking the law and not getting caught. These employees have done nothing criminal, or even rule-breaking. Blame the system.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

That example is very different. By stealing, you would be breaking the law. These employees did not break any rules. Rather, the rules were/are screwed up.

Bigeman -- the T Union broke the Social Contract

the T exists to provide a public service and since it is paid for by a combination of fares and taxes -- the "Public Sector Union" by its contract is supposed to be working in the Public Interest

By structuring the contract to reward shirkers, layabout and thieves [the ones who work overtime to make-up for faux Medical leave] -- the Union and its political enablers are directly working against the interest of the Public

Its no surprise why there are people who still refer to the MBTA as Mr Bulger's Transit Agency -- my only question was it Billy or perhaps Whitey who was managing the scam

The only reason that the dirt is coming to light is that we had such a total fail during last winter that even the political hacks were embarrassed

Now with the FCB we have a genuine opportunity to reform the T to put together an operating budget paid for with current funds and a separate capital budget

With support of the Legislature in 5 years the New T could be:
heading toward ending the backlog in work to achieve a State of Good Repair;
starting on investing capital in system reliability and capacity improvements;
and even begin thinking about the next wave of expansion projects

PS: speaking of driving here's some holiday cheer courtesy of Boston Dynamics
https://youtu.be/RDZu04v7_hc

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

I actually agree with everything you just, whigh. Go figure. Anyways, that's why I blame the union and system in place. But we are just splitting hairs at this point. What is happening is wrong. Changes need to be made. I was just hoping that T employees weren't the ones receiving the ire.

 

[underground]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

Racing to the bottom sounds fantastic. The public benefit from cutting the pay of MBTA workers in the pursuit of more affordable transit far outweighs the benefit of the MBTA as a jobs program. The T's job is to provide the max possible transit per dollar, and any ancillary goals involving employee compensation should be subordinate to that goal.

Maybe it's just me, but I think there's plenty of space between employees sleeping on the job and employees being chained to their work stations with the exits locked. And I'm not sure what improvement in quality you'd hope to see by running the T like Walmart. Walmart screams "quality" to you? But hey, it's cheap so who cares!

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

I actually agree with everything you just, whigh. Go figure. Anyways, that's why I blame the union and system in place. But we are just splitting hairs at this point. What is happening is wrong. Changes need to be made. I was just hoping that T employees weren't the ones receiving the ire.

I am not clear on how you can differentiate between the T employees and the T union and systems.

The union is made up of T employees. It is their union.

The system is populated with T employees, it is their system.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

I am not clear on how you can differentiate between the T employees and the T union and systems.

The union is made up of T employees. It is their union.

The system is populated with T employees, it is their system.

The bus driver who works overtime because it's available for him is not the same guy as the union rep who fights for absurd pay schemes that screw over the taxpayer, or the politician who agrees to the union demands because he wants their votes in the upcoming election.

Have you guys ever had a union, shift job?

ADDITION: Many union workers don't even like the unions they are a part of. The vast majority of those involved have little to no say in their representation, or at least think that's the case. They show up to work, get paid money, pay money in union dues, go home, put food on the table, and don't think about it. Don't believe that an average MBTA employee is any way responsible for the fact that his union is overpaying him, when that is simply not the case. Again, if you thought you were being overpaid, would you give your salary back to your boss rather than help your family? Of course not.

Heck, union workers have far less control over their salary than non-unionized employees. They can't negotiate pay. They have to operate under the strict rules of the union.

DOUBLE ADDITION: We clearly aren't going to agree. You blame overpaid MBTA employees. I do not. That's okay. We all think there is a problem. And the union rules have to be overhauled, or even removed.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

The bus driver who works overtime because it's available for him is not the same guy as the union rep who fights for absurd pay schemes that screw over the taxpayer, or the politician who agrees to the union demands because he wants their votes in the upcoming election.

Have you guys ever had a union, shift job?

ADDITION: Many union workers don't even like the unions they are a part of. The vast majority of those involved have little to no say in their representation, or at least think that's the case. They show up to work, get paid money, pay money in union dues, go home, put food on the table, and don't think about it. Don't believe that an average MBTA employee is any way responsible for the fact that his union is overpaying him, when that is simply not the case. Again, if you thought you were being overpaid, would you give your salary back to your boss rather than help your family? Of course not.

Heck, union workers have far less control over their salary than non-unionized employees. They can't negotiate pay. They have to operate under the strict rules of the union.

DOUBLE ADDITION: We clearly aren't going to agree. You blame overpaid MBTA employees. I do not. That's okay. We all think there is a problem. And the union rules have to be overhauled, or even removed.

OK, I can agree that the average employee is likely not the source of the problem, but they are complicit.

If you take the money and look the other way, you are part of the problem. Employees can vote out a union. T employees are happily profiting from the sucky situation we all pay for.

 

[Arlington]

Re: Driven By.... Uhh... Hello? Anybody?

I know Verizon workers who fully-game their system. It don't blame them for exploiting rules, nor do I fault employers for wanting to close the loopholes. Partly we don't see this kind of "abuse" in Verizon's system because it isn't so generous as to permit sick/leave time in the same week (or day!) as they claim "overtime".

But the real question for the T, us, and workers, is how hard the Unions fight the "fix" of loopholes that do violate the social contract like leave-overtime abuse does (and the general understanding of how/why one EARNS overtime)

So when the financial control board asks both that vacancies not be filled *and* that overtime be reduced, I suspect they are not being as idiotic as that sounds under normal understanding of vacancies and overtime, but rather that they are really asking that each worker show up when healthy/available and work their shifts as assigned.