General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

F-Line to Dudley

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Wash

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Well, it's trendy with NJ Transit doing it. And if anyone trawls the outer Fitchburg Line often enough to see Norfolk Southern intermodal trains run, NS has the most extensive series of heritage loco paints in the industry honoring the innumerable defunct RR's that were absorbed (X many times removed) into their network, with those units on regular rotation on the Patriot Corridor. And their paint shop at famous Altoona Works RR shops is so good they're almost always spot-on accurate (because they'll hear about it from a rabid army of HO-scale foamers if a single line is non-authentic).


I'm just not sure what would quality as "T heritage". It's been variations on the same purple scheme with few radical changes ever since they first first equipment purchases in the late-70's. The Boston & Maine heritage on the northside is hard to replicate because the Budd RDC's were all- stainless steel with just logo decals, no "paint". Their only paint jobs--both the blue-dip paint w/ BM logo and the earlier red w/yellow stripes and Minuteman logo were freight-only jobs, with the steam era basically being non-schemed dull colors that absorbed soot well.


Southside you've got the good old NYNH&H interlocking NH, but State of Connecticut already wears that as its home scheme. Most Boston & Albany trains ran in pool fleet with their corporate owners New York Central...sometimes stickered with the cherry-red B&A logo over whatever the prevailing NYC scheme of the day was, but usually not. (pre- D Line Brookline Village, mid-1950's). . .
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And, well...the less said about the Penn Central era in Boston the better. :poop:
Regardless of how "Historically Accurate" it would be on a passenger locomotive, a red-and-yellow Minuteman F40 would be brilliant for the Northside. For the south side, the McGuinness red/white/black New Haven scheme is taken, but what about the old navy blue+yellow script one?
 

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F-Line to Dudley

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Regardless of how "Historically Accurate" it would be on a passenger locomotive, a red-and-yellow Minuteman F40 would be brilliant for the Northside. For the south side, the McGuinness red/white/black New Haven scheme is taken, but what about the old navy blue+yellow script one?
McGuinness scheme was rolled out for the diesel era. Scripted scheme was phased out with steam (though it lasted on coaches for awhile). Script era had no particularly well-defined color scheme, but navy green was used more often than not on passenger livery and dull clay red on freight cars. Steam locos were almost uniformly black across the industry for all the soot the accumulated, heavyweight steel coaches tended to be dark colors unlike today's exposed stainless steel or aluminum and also so they could wear soot well.


(Per the cheeky link in the last post). . .



Hmm...on second thought, maybe not. Green looks a little...poopy...leading a train. (n)
 

GP40MC

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A few weeks ago a friend of a friend told me that the T might be painting a few diesels in heritage paint schemes; any updates?
The last three units of the F40PH-3C rebuilds are rumored to be in heritage paint: B&A, B&M and NH.
 

HenryAlan

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If there had ever been a way to build phase III or otherwise achieve the station listing/service pattern on that flyer, the Silver Line might actually have been a somewhat decent thing. But the lack of through connectivity for both branches is a real service killer.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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If there had ever been a way to build phase III or otherwise achieve the station listing/service pattern on that flyer, the Silver Line might actually have been a somewhat decent thing. But the lack of through connectivity for both branches is a real service killer.
That flyer pre-dates the service downgrade to forced Boylston Under transfer from both halves of the circuit...so unfortunately real thru-and-thru service ended up being a pipe dream once the tunnel design started collapsing on itself. Ended up too heinously slow to chunk together a complete service plan. Seaport would've still been enormously better off by getting their Orange and Green transfers to relieve the Red overloading that's killing us today, but Washington (surprise-surprise) would've totally gotten shaftted getting no Orange or Red touches whatsoever behind fare control with Boylston being the forced end of their service pattern. Equal or better my arse.

We probably should've known better than winging it on a prayer that things would work out betting the farm on a triple-decker Chinatown Station with 2 new levels of stacked Silver platforms structurally underpinning an already kookily-arranged 1908 OL level and requiring buses to charge up the maximum allowable grade at minimum allowable width for the stacking. I mean, the aB Crazy Transit Pitches thread usually has some level of self-regulated self-awareness of when too many ugly design hacks poured on top of too many ugly design hacks starts to lose the war of attrition on cost & feasibility vs. throughput & ridership. You don't often expect the official planners to go nth-degree Civil Engineering Strongman painting themselves straight into a corner then go catatonic when their house of cards collapses on itself. But...yup...that really, truly happened here. It almost doesn't seem real 15 years later that this is how it went down, but somewhere on RR.net's broken search function you'll find newbie-poster 2005 me going through the Seven Stages of "What is this I don't even?. . ." in real time at the skull-crushing inanity of the latest project revelations. 😨
 

HenryAlan

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but somewhere on RR.net's broken search function you'll find newbie-poster 2005 me going through the Seven Stages of "What is this I don't even?. . ." in real time at the skull-crushing inanity of the latest project revelations. 😨
Given the way they view bus topics over at railroad.net, I'm somewhat shocked you weren't banned right on the spot (with the thread disappearing into the void), rather than years later.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Given the way they view bus topics over at railroad.net, I'm somewhat shocked you weren't banned right on the spot (with the thread disappearing into the void), rather than years later.
Hating on the Silver Line was fully allowed and encouraged as Corollary #7.2.b of the bus rule. :cautious:
 

The EGE

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On the same day that the state spent $159 million on South Coast Rail (out of $1,050 million total for the first phase alone), the GM report included this graph:

graph.png


Red, Orange, Green, and Silver all between 5-10% of normal ridership, Blue at 15%, and bus at 20%. Commuter rail, meanwhile, is below 1%.
 

Arlington

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^ gives you a really good sense of jobs done by riders of each in their workplace. Bus & Blue = essential physical work. CR = thought work (or able to park at the office when they do go?)
 
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jklo

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CR = thought work (or able to park at the office when they do go?)
It says m ticket activations and not people with passes. Driving is way faster now and probably cheaper if downtown parking places cut rates.

I should add that there is also likely some amount of people who are afraid to be in an enclosed space with others. If you would take the CR you definitely have a car. The people taking the subway/bus don't have that option.
 
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F-Line to Dudley

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On the same day that the state spent $159 million on South Coast Rail (out of $1,050 million total for the first phase alone), the GM report included this graph:

View attachment 5170

Red, Orange, Green, and Silver all between 5-10% of normal ridership, Blue at 15%, and bus at 20%. Commuter rail, meanwhile, is below 1%.
...and right on cue, Concern Trollmaster-in-Chief Pollack floats slamming the brakes on the Rail Vision buildout: https://commonwealthmagazine.org/tr...loats-idea-of-slowing-commuter-rail-makeover/

...with Designated Pioneer Institute Managing Brainslug Poftak echoing sentiments that taking actionable policy stances in 'totes overrated in this day and age: https://commonwealthmagazine.org/podcast/poftak-wary-of-taking-hard-policy-stances-at-t/


:rolleyes: When does the revolving door next turn? These flaks are really starting to overstay their welcome.
 

jass

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Are the CR employees still collecting fares? I dont mean officially, I mean in practice. If not, that would also depress the activation numbers
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Are the CR employees still collecting fares? I dont mean officially, I mean in practice. If not, that would also depress the activation numbers
Yes for app fares, because that's contactless. I'd bet on the onboard cash/tix transactions being a bit more depressed.
 

HenryAlan

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Pollack floated the idea that it may make sense to push the expensive commuter rail overhaul further into the future, giving ridership a chance to slowly rebound and creating a dynamic that would give rail operators a greater incentive to bid on the project.
No, no, no, no! Ridership will rebound much faster when there is frequent, reliable, and reasonably priced service. You don't wait for ridership to build on an ill suited, over priced service that doesn't work for most people.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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No, no, no, no! Ridership will rebound much faster when there is frequent, reliable, and reasonably priced service. You don't wait for ridership to build on an ill suited, over priced service that doesn't work for most people.
What did you expect her to say? She's a loyal foot soldier, and never wastes an opportunity to sow F.U.D. on a project her boss is getting bent back by public pressure into carrying at arm's length. The other members of the FCMB seem to have long ago taken to ignoring her when she's playing the heel because it's too transparently obvious what the game is (ditto Pioneer-lackey Poftak's simulcast supporting statements), and it's pretty unfathomable that she--or Baker for that matter--have the stomach to sign on for another 4-year prison term at this. They've both looked/felt exhausted ever since the RMV scandal of last year, and the current crisis certainly isn't conducive to that rejuvenation feeling.

This is placeholder whining. No, it's not helping at all...no way, no how. But the Rail Vision and Better Bus also aren't nearly ready for a final up/down vote because serious prerequisite number-crunching is still continuing apace with those initiatives before there's truly an actionable final-final thing to vote on. So nothing's really changed, either. We weren't ready to put it to a vote because there's still crucial busywork ongoing, and that busywork is continuing apace. It'll be next year...last fiscal year before they announce if (...or likely) if they're bowing out for '22. The advocacy already scored a big win framing Pollack's trolling as empty water-carrying by appealing over her head straight to the Board. They've just got to keep on that, because when it's time for the substantive decisions on implementation (incl. whether symbolic gestures to-date are going to be trampled upon) she's going to be a lame-duck, Poftak's going to be sending resumes out, and they're not going to have any stomach to put up a resistance that ends up becoming a Top 3 most prominent election issue for who succeeds them. They'll just roll over even more readily than last year's concession to RUR.

I mean, look at Pollack's self-interest here. She lives/breathes transpo and probably wants wide-open job selection in that field. But after 1.5 terms of being a loyal foot soldier she's now lasted way longer than most cabinet Secretaries do and is staring down the diminishing returns of overstaying welcome by increasingly being pigeon-holed as a one-note scold incapable of independent thought. She seems to have no intention of leaving the job, however, before the term is done. Does she really want to expend more energy doing this over the next year when it's just going to back her into more of a corner...with her very loyalty making her almost a troll meme? I doubt it. Enthusiasm level for this performance act certainly isn't going to increase with more time. The advocacy can almost bank on increasing fatigue at the top for ramping up their own counter-messaging. If this was just running up the probable Summer/Fall messaging up the flagpole while other things are preoccupying people's attention, then it should be transparently obvious which knives TransitMatters et al need to sharpen to counter it. The rest is just countering increasing fatigue with increasing vigor. Vigor isn't in any short supply amongst the advocates, and they're well-motivated to framing their core arguments to a post-COVID universe anyway.
 

jklo

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I would like to see the monthly pass numbers.

No, no, no, no! Ridership will rebound much faster when there is frequent, reliable, and reasonably priced service. You don't wait for ridership to build on an ill suited, over priced service that doesn't work for most people.
Ridership won't rebound if people don't need to go to the office, either because they are working from home or are laid off. I personally think demand will return but it's not a given.
 

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