General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)
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RandomWalk
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Yes. The management complained about the FMCB meeting frequency, and how it made it a full time job generating PowerPoint presentations.
Good question. My guess: less frequent service provides bigger service windows and they can switch the CR trains to alt tracks in a lot of situations for maintenance because or the less frequent service.
This is only a guess too, but my light understanding does recall FRA have stronger perceived and actual regulatory power so it's possible better practices and effort has been done for commuter rail than the subway. This doesn't mean there's not any regulation, as the MBTA has been experiencing, just more leeway until there isn't.
Working with live 3rd rail next to you, live catenary above you, in a restricted right of way or tunnel also creates time and access constraints that are not as big an issue on commuter rail. Productive work can not be accomplished in the 1:30 to 4:30 non-service hours.
Or on weekends, since shutting down on the weekends is NBD.
Haven't they done this in the past few years on the Orange line? I remember bus shuttles coming online at 21:00 from Wellington or Sullivan within the past five years.
RandomWalk
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They really need to answer:
- How many bodies do they need to keep up with routine maintenance during the current overnight windows? How many bodies do they currently have?
- What are acceptable times to start and end daily service to allow routine maintenance to happen during the off hours, without backsliding?
- How many bodies do they need to keep up with routine maintenance during the current overnight windows? How many bodies do they currently have?
- What are acceptable times to start and end daily service to allow routine maintenance to happen during the off hours, without backsliding?
They are doing that this week on Braintree.
millerm277
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While I believe this, is there some sort of reason they're unable to do single-track operations on segments they want to work on after the PM rush when both demand and scheduled service is already low? And if frequency has to be cut a little lower, it's still vastly less disruptive to have a train every 20 minutes vs shuttle busing. That kind of thing seems to be how other places get work done.
JeffDowntown
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I cannot image there is an effective way to work right next to a live track that is in service. That is just a catastrophic accident waiting to happen.
I also don't think the T power management system allows for cutting power to one track and not the other. You typically cut power to a whole block of track or tunnel.
I know the MTA in NYC does a lot of inspection and setup work in live tunnels. (Preparation for more major work with a shutdown.) 2-3 MTA track workers are killed per year in 3rd rail and train collision accidents.
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Sorry, but people work next to live third rails on in-service track in basically every subway system in the world including Boston’s. Workers are trained on how to operate safely in those conditions. However, it is much slower going than working when the trains are not in service.
I couldn't find any stats on that, but I have a hard time believing there are that many deaths a year in a major transit system in the US. I have thought doing single track running, especially in the tunnels which are a bit more separated on the track for maintenance would potentially work well (and also in cases where there is a problem in one direction just route to single track instead of shutting things down entirely). Perhaps more crossovers would be need? It would also be good if the third rail could be independently controlled on each side. I don't see how either things would be that big of a project to implement.
JeffDowntown
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As of 2007, and little has changed (except COVID which killed a huge number of workers in 2020 and 2021, skewing the numbers).
"Since 1946, at least 238 New York City subway workers have been killed on the job, according to a tabulation of the fatal accidents provided yesterday by New York City Transit. As dangerous as the work is today, the hazards appear to have been even greater in the 1940s and ’50s. From 1946 through 1959, 120 died. In 1948 alone, 17 men were killed."
3.9 transit workers per year killed on the MTA.
Looking Back at 6 Decades of Subway Worker Deaths (Published 2007)
At least 238 subway workers have been killed on the job since 1946, according to a recent review by New York City Transit.
millerm277
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3.9 transit workers per year killed on the MTA.
Looking Back at 6 Decades of Subway Workers Deaths.Looking Back at 6 Decades of Subway Worker Deaths (Published 2007)
At least 238 subway workers have been killed on the job since 1946, according to a recent review by New York City Transit.www.nytimes.com
Not sure looking at "since 1946" numbers and imagining safety standards in 1946 + 2006 were the same makes for a very fair average.
Looking at the article, I see:
"Since 2000, nine have been killed, according to the tally."
So that would suggest a rate of 1.28/yr for 2000-06. I'm not sure the MBTA is doing better than that, even with it's much smaller size. Especially since those look to be systemwide numbers, not specifically track workers.
As of 2007, and little has changed (except COVID which killed a huge number of workers in 2020 and 2021, skewing the numbers).
"Since 1946, at least 238 New York City subway workers have been killed on the job, according to a tabulation of the fatal accidents provided yesterday by New York City Transit. As dangerous as the work is today, the hazards appear to have been even greater in the 1940s and ’50s. From 1946 through 1959, 120 died. In 1948 alone, 17 men were killed."
3.9 transit workers per year killed on the MTA.
Looking Back at 6 Decades of Subway Workers Deaths.Looking Back at 6 Decades of Subway Worker Deaths (Published 2007)
At least 238 subway workers have been killed on the job since 1946, according to a recent review by New York City Transit.
I mean that says:
So, the article states that this is all deaths total since 1946, and that the deaths heavily skew into the1940s and 50s, where on would think safety wasn't the priority it is today. OSHA, as an example, wasn't founded until 1971.
It does drill down a bit to third rail electrocutions:
So 24 dead since 1946 due to the third rail. with the example given being in the 1940s. and it probably trending to more happening in the 40s & 50s. If 2-3 people a year where dying doing track work (let alone electrocution), OSHA and the feds would be all over that....
For this particular argument, we have lovely amounts of *data,* thanks to the FTA's NTD (National Transit Database) and the DOL's (Dept. of Labor) OSHA / Census reporting requirements feeding into BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics), so lets dive into it a bit. Nationally, between 2013 and November 2022, the last point that BLS or the NTD has formally released data for, a total of 94 urban transit workers, across all modes of bus, rail, commuter rail, etc. were fatally injured.
Assuming that the percentage distribution has not changed much 2003-2010 from the last published analysis in 2015, (since I don't feel like processing x years worth of BLS census data) we see that the vast majority of these fatalities are caused by transportation accidents, aka crashes. Additionally, from the ratio of reported injuries, a slight majority of all transit worker lost time incidents occurred in bus modes, simply due to the number of transit systems that are bus-only operations. Notably, the second most prominent cause of fatal injuries is violent acts - while contacts with objects or equipment would capture incidents where an employee was struck by a vehicle or touched a live third rail during maintenance, only accounted for 7% of all fatalities. On a national basis therefore, in the preceding 10 years, likely only 6-7 fatalities could be thusly attributed. Granted, those struck by a vehicle may be captured under transportation accidents as well, as the data is somewhat unclear on classification - but lets get more granular than what BLS publishes.
As a component of USDOT, the FTA tracks worker and passenger injuries, fatal and otherwise, in far greater detail. Looking at the 2020 NTD, there were 9 fatalities nationwide at FTA reporting agencies. Unfortunately, 2 of the 9 were MBTA bus operators, struck by other MBTA buses at Quincy sta. and Charleston Yard, while the rail operator was the sole casualty of the 2020 NYC subway arson incident. Of the non-operator deaths, there were only 4 - these are the only candidates for having suffered fatal injuries as a result of other causes, such as falls or contact with equipment, but the dataset doesn't break it down further.
Specifically only looking at the MBTA and MTA NYC Transit, here's a complete readout from the NTD's safety time series dataset for the past 4 years or so, from 2019 through Nov 2022, the last available data point. This captures everything, including passengers, but I've highlighted employee fatalities and injuries. As you can see, all 4 of the fatalities across both agencies in that period were in 2020, and 3 were previously explained: 2 MBTA bus operators struck by buses, 1 MTA worker the victim of arson. The last was a electrocution fatality: a car cleaner contacted the collection shoe on a train in a yard. However, note that such employee fatalities, even singularly, that are not easily explained by transportation accidents, falls or criminal action, may be subject to investigation by the NTSB regardless of whether they were an employee of a public transit agency or private freight railroad. A NTSB investigation of the NYCT incident was conducted, a report written and issued. Even if they don't necessarily investigate each case, patterns would definitely be subject to heightened scrutiny.
Generally, I would expect that the likelihood of being investigated to be higher at passenger carrying transit agencies than in industry - and a brief look at the NTSB's Railroad Investigations section shows recent investigations of track worker fatalities at SEPTA, NYCT, PATH, BART, Amtrak, etc.
Assuming that the percentage distribution has not changed much 2003-2010 from the last published analysis in 2015, (since I don't feel like processing x years worth of BLS census data) we see that the vast majority of these fatalities are caused by transportation accidents, aka crashes. Additionally, from the ratio of reported injuries, a slight majority of all transit worker lost time incidents occurred in bus modes, simply due to the number of transit systems that are bus-only operations. Notably, the second most prominent cause of fatal injuries is violent acts - while contacts with objects or equipment would capture incidents where an employee was struck by a vehicle or touched a live third rail during maintenance, only accounted for 7% of all fatalities. On a national basis therefore, in the preceding 10 years, likely only 6-7 fatalities could be thusly attributed. Granted, those struck by a vehicle may be captured under transportation accidents as well, as the data is somewhat unclear on classification - but lets get more granular than what BLS publishes.
As a component of USDOT, the FTA tracks worker and passenger injuries, fatal and otherwise, in far greater detail. Looking at the 2020 NTD, there were 9 fatalities nationwide at FTA reporting agencies. Unfortunately, 2 of the 9 were MBTA bus operators, struck by other MBTA buses at Quincy sta. and Charleston Yard, while the rail operator was the sole casualty of the 2020 NYC subway arson incident. Of the non-operator deaths, there were only 4 - these are the only candidates for having suffered fatal injuries as a result of other causes, such as falls or contact with equipment, but the dataset doesn't break it down further.
Specifically only looking at the MBTA and MTA NYC Transit, here's a complete readout from the NTD's safety time series dataset for the past 4 years or so, from 2019 through Nov 2022, the last available data point. This captures everything, including passengers, but I've highlighted employee fatalities and injuries. As you can see, all 4 of the fatalities across both agencies in that period were in 2020, and 3 were previously explained: 2 MBTA bus operators struck by buses, 1 MTA worker the victim of arson. The last was a electrocution fatality: a car cleaner contacted the collection shoe on a train in a yard. However, note that such employee fatalities, even singularly, that are not easily explained by transportation accidents, falls or criminal action, may be subject to investigation by the NTSB regardless of whether they were an employee of a public transit agency or private freight railroad. A NTSB investigation of the NYCT incident was conducted, a report written and issued. Even if they don't necessarily investigate each case, patterns would definitely be subject to heightened scrutiny.
Generally, I would expect that the likelihood of being investigated to be higher at passenger carrying transit agencies than in industry - and a brief look at the NTSB's Railroad Investigations section shows recent investigations of track worker fatalities at SEPTA, NYCT, PATH, BART, Amtrak, etc.
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Jahvon09
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If the MBTA is trying to eliminate this problem, them why do they just keep on bringing it back again?!! Come on! Who is zooming who here?!!
commonwealthmagazine.org
For now, slow zones on the T the new normal
ONE-QUARTER OF the entire MBTA subway system will still be subject to more-sluggish-than-usual travel once the agency lifts end-to-end speed restrictions
commonwealthmagazine.org