General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

The MBTA podcast, "Spilling the T", is back:

MBTA Podcast | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com
 
Questions that I thought of as a result of the ongoing Red-Blue discussions.

1. How does the capacity of a 6-car Blue Line train with the current fleet compare to a 2-car Green Line Type 10 set?

2. F-Line mentioned this in June:
The far easier thing to do would be to build Red-Blue knocking out Bowdoin Loop, treat State St. curve, and go with Orange Line-length (or as close to that as you could go) cars. OL-length consists on Blue would constitute a 26% increase in seating capacity per train, without increasing the number of cars per consist.
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Assuming removing Bowdoin and reconstructing State St curve allows Blue Line to use longer trains while still running 6-car sets, how difficult is it to extend all platforms to accommodate for the increase in length of each train set?

The motivation behind these questions is: For whatever possible destinations that have been proposed for a Blue Line Extension beyond Charles/MGH, how feasible is a Green Line branch or another light rail system as a replacement, possibly with grade-separated ROWs?

The main concerns seem to be limited Green Line capacity through Central Subway and the likes, lower capacity per train, and limited potential frequency compared to BLX. The main benefit is that you don't have to build a riverbank subway (thus is feasible even without a Storrow road diet).
 
Teban54 said:
Questions that I thought of as a result of the ongoing Red-Blue discussions.

1. How does the capacity of a 6-car Blue Line train with the current fleet compare to a 2-car Green Line Type 10 set?

2. F-Line mentioned this in June:

Assuming removing Bowdoin and reconstructing State St curve allows Blue Line to use longer trains while still running 6-car sets, how difficult is it to extend all platforms to accommodate for the increase in length of each train set?

The motivation behind these questions is: For whatever possible destinations that have been proposed for a Blue Line Extension beyond Charles/MGH, how feasible is a Green Line branch or another light rail system as a replacement, possibly with grade-separated ROWs?

The main concerns seem to be limited Green Line capacity through Central Subway and the likes, lower capacity per train, and limited potential frequency compared to BLX. The main benefit is that you don't have to build a riverbank subway (thus is feasible even without a Storrow road diet).
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Type 10 seating hasn't been finalized yet, but a 2-car supertrain is expected to seat at much as a 3-car Type 7/8/9 consist...so roughly 132 seats for 2 cars or 66 seats for 1 car. A 6-car Blue Line set seats 210, roughly 37% more than a Type 10 deuce. A 6-car Orange Line set seats 255, a 48% increase over a Type 10 deuce. It's a fairly sizeable capacity difference between LRT and HRT.

To modify the platforms for full-on OL lengths they'd have to extend all platforms on the line by +50 feet. All of the outdoor stations have slack provisions for that based on the last round of 2001-04 platform lengthenings, and Maverick has lots more platform space beyond the cinderblock wall to extend. So it's primarily State, GC, and Aquarium where most of the hard work will need to take place (State would need a lengthening in the easterly direction anyway to cut platform on the westerly/curve side for turn radius).
 
I briefly waxed eloquent about this in the GLX thread already, but it's also relevant here, given its illustration of the current positive relationship between Eng and Healey, and what looks like a new willingness to invoke the Baker administration's responsibility for the current state of affairs.

The Green Line extension, which fully opened less than a year ago, is riddled with so many defects — even more than previously disclosed — workers will now have to essentially redo a key element of the 4.7-mile stretch, T general manager Phillip Eng announced Thursday.

The fundamental problem with the $2.3 billion project, which stretches to Medford on one branch and Union Square in Somerville on the other, is the track itself, Eng told the Globe in an interview. When the project opened, and ever since, it’s been too narrow, a grave error that he said was known within his agency, but neither fixed nor shared with him until last month.

...

In a statement, Governor Maura Healey, who took office in January and later appointed Eng to run the MBTA, pointed the finger at unnamed officials. She said “senior MBTA officials under the previous administration knew about issues with the Green Line Extension . . . tracks years ago and did not disclose them to our administration or address them on their watch.”

Healey also celebrated Eng for uncovering what happened and “taking swift action to hold people accountable and demand a work plan from the contractor to fix the narrow gauges on their own dime.”

The project opened last year with the defective tracks in place even though the MBTA knew as early as April 2021 that the plates made the track gauge too narrow and didn’t meet the agency’s own construction requirements, Eng said. He citied a April 2021 inspection report from Terracon, the firm hired by the project’s construction companies to do quality control.
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https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/19/metro/green-line-extension-update/

On a bit of a conspiracy theory note, I wonder if this was intentionally timed with the re-release of the Spill the T podcast -- where Eng notably referred to years of underinvestment under prior administrations. I wonder if the Healey administration knew that eventually they would need to start pointing the finger at Baker, and wanted to have other things squared away before doing so. (As in, perhaps they wanted to get some good press out there about Compass Rail and about Blue-Red before "going negative".)
 
Riverside said:
I briefly waxed eloquent about this in the GLX thread already, but it's also relevant here, given its illustration of the current positive relationship between Eng and Healey, and what looks like a new willingness to invoke the Baker administration's responsibility for the current state of affairs.



https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/19/metro/green-line-extension-update/

On a bit of a conspiracy theory note, I wonder if this was intentionally timed with the re-release of the Spill the T podcast -- where Eng notably referred to years of underinvestment under prior administrations. I wonder if the Healey administration knew that eventually they would need to start pointing the finger at Baker, and wanted to have other things squared away before doing so. (As in, perhaps they wanted to get some good press out there about Compass Rail and about Blue-Red before "going negative".)
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I frigging HATE this crap!!! Boston Globe BLOCKS every story they post because they want people to frigging PAY & subscribe to them just to be able to read it!!! That is so childish & immature!!!! :mad:
 
ceo said:
What's childish and immature about expecting to be paid for their work?
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Because reading stories from newspaper cos online used to be for free, & now they are penny-pinching to the point that they even want money from those whose desire is to read stories online & not be forced to sign up for a subscription online!! If you are buying the newspaper, that's one thing. (n)
 
Jahvon09 said:
Because reading stories from newspaper cos online used to be for free, & now they are penny-pinching to the point that they even want money from those whose desire is to read stories online & not be forced to sign up for a subscription online!! If you are buying the newspaper, that's one thing. (n)
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a 6 month digital Globe subscription literally costs $1.
 
#bancars said:
a 6 month digital Globe subscription literally costs $1.
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And usually, the same story appears on other reliable resources, so they can be read fully & there's no charge to read them. It's not the money, which cost very little to pay, it the principle of the thing; Everyone seems to be looking to "nickel & dime" online readers just to be able to read stories online & it shouldn't be that way!! (n)
 
Jahvon09 said:
And usually, the same story appears on other reliable resources, so they can be read fully & there's no charge to read them. It's not the money, which cost very little to pay, it the principle of the thing; Everyone seems to be looking to "nickel & dime" online readers just to be able to read stories online & it shouldn't be that way!! (n)
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And that principle worked fine when people still bought lots of newspapers. They have to pay people to write these things, and ads alone don't tend to fund particularly good journalism.
 
Brattle Loop said:
And that principle worked fine when people still bought lots of newspapers. They have to pay people to write these things, and ads alone don't tend to fund particularly good journalism.
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My most irritating pet peeve is that even newspapers are costing way too much these days!! Buying the newspaper 7 days a week can add up. On Sundays, they are nearly double the costs.
 
Jahvon09 said:
My most irritating pet peeve is that even newspapers are costing way too much these days!! Buying the newspaper 7 days a week can add up. On Sundays, they are nearly double the costs.
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Newspapers used to be mostly vehicles for advertisements. If you wanted to sell an old car or hire someone you would pay $20 for an add in the classifieds and companies would spend a lot of money letting people know what was on sale. The subscriptions were cheap because it was more beneficial for them to say they had a higher subscriber base when selling ads than to make money from the subscribers. Lots of people didn't really pay to read the stories.

That was a huge portion of their revenue that's all gone because of Craigslist, facebook marketplace, and google. They still sell ads but they're not as lucrative. So they are trying to get revenue in other ways.
 
Teban54 said:
The motivation behind these questions is: For whatever possible destinations that have been proposed for a Blue Line Extension beyond Charles/MGH, how feasible is a Green Line branch or another light rail system as a replacement, possibly with grade-separated ROWs?

The main concerns seem to be limited Green Line capacity through Central Subway and the likes, lower capacity per train, and limited potential frequency compared to BLX. The main benefit is that you don't have to build a riverbank subway (thus is feasible even without a Storrow road diet).
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Returning to this (IMO much more fun) topic:

I think this goes back to my idea that the Blue and Green Lines (really the Blue Line and the Central Subway of the Green Line) each form half of a whole "heavy metro" line, roughly equivalent to something like the Red Line prior to its extensions to Alewife and the South Share. (GLX is notable for finally moving beyond that century-old paradigm.)

Because, yeah: on a 100-year timescale, I think almost every potential Blue Line corridor could also be covered by the Green Line -- if given priority. (Obligatory plugs for my five-part blog series on this topic.) The one obvious exception is alignments via Cambridge's Central Square. But, assuming you then turn away from the Red Line, then within 1 or 2 stops you're back in Green Line territory: Inman-Union, or Charles River-Allston.

That all being said, this conversation has inspired Some classic Crazy Transit Pitches, which I'll have to sketch out soon... if only as an escapism exercise from this week's depressing revelations.
 
I was told by some that some of the info in some of the links that I posted were wrong. But that's not me doing that. I'm only trying to keep others here informed about the things that are going on concerning the GLX. I's more than likely that the news media is getting stories that are half-assed. They often do that a lot! Seems that they don't care how they tell it as long as it gets out. I just wanted to try to clear that up. I apologize for their screw-ups. The info is posted to the best of my knowledge. :(
 
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So... Has anyone noticed the T has quietly stopped providing weekly updates of the xLT transformation programs? Since Sept 2020 for GLT and since Dec 2021 for OLT and RLT, the T had been providing consistent weekly status updates of a range of projects. Granted, they weren't the most detailed things, but they provided a relatively deep level of transparency into what the T was doing. That stopped a couple of weeks ago on Oct 6 and there's no sign of updates since.

Updates | Red Line Program | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com

Green Line Program | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com
 
Delvin4519 said:
GLX taken offline due to wire problem. Passengers forced to walk through the tracks after getting stranded for over an hour plus.

www.boston.com

Regular service resumes on Green Line Extension after commute disruption

The service disruption comes a day after MBTA officials revealed that much of the new line need to be fixed.
www.boston.com
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Green Line central subway has been taken offline due to wire problem this morning. Yesterday's GLX taken offline was also due to wire problem.

No Green Line service from Kenmore to Gov't Ctr. this morning.

www.nbcboston.com

Service resumes again on MBTA Green Line after wire problem near Copley

Green Line trains were back up and running Saturday night after another day of overhead power problems that caused frustrating delays and forced passengers off trains and onto the tracks. “There was a big bang and then the train stopped,” said Charlie Sullivan, a passenger who was stuck on the...
www.nbcboston.com www.nbcboston.com
 
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Delvin4519 said:
Green Line central subway has been taken offline due to wire problem this morning. Yesterday's GLX taken offline was also due to wire problem.

No Green Line service from Kenmore to Gov't Ctr. this morning.

www.nbcboston.com

Service resumes again on MBTA Green Line after wire problem near Copley

Green Line trains were back up and running Saturday night after another day of overhead power problems that caused frustrating delays and forced passengers off trains and onto the tracks. “There was a big bang and then the train stopped,” said Charlie Sullivan, a passenger who was stuck on the...
www.nbcboston.com www.nbcboston.com
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More pantograph problems. Is this more problems with the Type 8s or something else?
 
Stlin said:
So... Has anyone noticed the T has quietly stopped providing weekly updates of the xLT transformation programs? Since Sept 2020 for GLT and since Dec 2021 for OLT and RLT, the T had been providing consistent weekly status updates of a range of projects. Granted, they weren't the most detailed things, but they provided a relatively deep level of transparency into what the T was doing. That stopped a couple of weeks ago on Oct 6 and there's no sign of updates since.

Updates | Red Line Program | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com

Green Line Program | Projects | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.
www.mbta.com www.mbta.com
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This lines up with when Angel Peña left. He was the one who always signed the weekly emails for these updates.

On October 11, he sent an email to the GLT/OLT/RLT mailing lists with a farewell note:
As my tenure with the MBTA comes to an end today, I want to take a moment to reflect on my time here in Boston and the people who have had such a meaningful impact on me and the work we accomplished at Capital Transformation.

Since coming to Boston in 2018, the trust that you all put in me and my team is something that I will be forever grateful for. From the institutions, universities, and hospitals to the elected officials, advocacy groups, and communities, you all played such an important role in the partnerships we formed and the feedback you provided to help us make important improvements for our riders.

I also want to recognize our General Manager, Phil Eng. Since coming to the MBTA he has been laser focused on improving service and safety for riders and employees. He has worked tirelessly to get us moving in the right direction and I’m confident that he will make a lasting positive impact on the T.

I’m thrilled to see my deputy, Desiree Patrice, take over as the new Chief of Capital Transformation. While it was a long and difficult decision for me to leave this job that I love at the MBTA, I know that Capital Transformation will be in good hands with Desiree at the helm. Our shared work ethic and commitment to public service will ease the leadership transition and continue the excellence of Capital Transformation.

As I transition out, I’m confident that the diverse and experienced team that I assembled will continue to build on the great work that we’ve accomplished. With team members from over 12 countries and five states, we are indeed a melting pot. Our diversity isn’t intended to merely check a box but to broaden our views and better serve our riders. The Capital Transformation team’s devotion and passion reminds me daily of why I got into public service and I’m confident that that passion and devotion will continue after I leave.

While it was a difficult decision to leave this job that I love, my commitment to public service and safe and efficient public transit will continue to be my north star as I begin the next chapter in my life which is taking me to Texas to be closer to my parents and extended family.

To all of you who have had such a positive impact on me, I hope you know that is isn’t goodbye, it’s just see you later.

Angel Peña (he/him)
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