Gov't Center Station Rebuild

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"It's...beautiful!"
 
^^ LOL. Maybe the T can develop a side business selling guano as fertilizer.
 
Considering that Kenmore was filthy from before it even officially reopened, and hasn't gotten any better with age, I have no hope for this ever looking as good as it appears in the renderings.

So glad the T is blowing all this money on a grandeose headhouse that will never be cleaned instead of, say, selling the air rights to a developer. Or idunno... just building stairs.
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Seriously: how will that roof glass stay any kind of clean? Its flat. It won't even take advantage of rainfall to wash off the guano and particulates.

And the old "lace two shoes and toss them over the wire" thing will get a new life when they can just lob them onto that roof and make of them a long-lasting joke.
 
Arlington said:
Seriously: how will that roof glass stay any kind of clean? Its flat. It won't even take advantage of rainfall to wash off the guano and particulates.

And the old "lace two shoes and toss them over the wire" thing will get a new life when they can just lob them onto that roof and make of them a long-lasting joke.
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The roof will have massive windshield wipers installed to clean off any undesirable accumulations.
 
deh74 said:
The roof will have massive windshield wipers installed to clean off any undesirable accumulations.
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Oh no, no, no -- the T would never use automation.

There will be three dedicated, full time union jobs created to continuously clean the head house.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
1) When GC isn't closed it's still a limited-hours station impossible to upgrade with ADA.

2) When the decision was made to lengthen all the other platforms for 6 cars Red-Blue was still a priority project, and the GC emergency exit was still scheduled in the rebuild to become a second Blue-only entrance close enough to Bowdoin to displace it. They didn't bother because they expected it would be permanently closed when the extension tore through it.

3) Regardless of #2 the T has long had a desire to permanently close Bowdoin. They can't any longer because MGH is pissed enough about Red-Blue being canceled and doesn't need additional provocation.



I doubt it's ever going to be lengthened. It's just too structurally invasive for the lowest ridership subway stop and 2nd-lowest ridership heavy rail stop on the system.
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If Mass General is that pissed off enough about the Red & Blue project being canceled, then why won't they try to do something about it?

One would have thought that since the project would've benefited the hospital & its employees if the plan went forward, that it would look into seeking some restitution against the MBTA making empty promises & false hopes to them, getting their hopes all up, only for them to be crushed.

Quite similar to the Arborway / Forest Hills service restoration as part of the stipulation from the city as part of the Big Dig program. They said that they would reopen service to Arboway, but they never did!

Last I heard of that was that the JP community was filing a lawsuit against the T for not keeping their promise to them. That is usually the norm with them. Always letting themselves write a check that their butts can't cash! :mad:
 
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To my great delight, muralists are painting a panorama of pigeons on the construction fence at this site.
 
Jahvon09 said:
If Mass General is that pissed off enough about the Red & Blue project being canceled, then why won't they try to do something about it?
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I'm tired of places and people demanding, in effect: "Give me a big transit facility for free, and shower compensation on my neighbors who complain"

How about *nobody* gets new transit unless they're willing to put up some of their own cash, and figure out for themselves how to pacify their neighbors (or we just all agree not to pay such ransom, ever).

If MGH thinks it is owed a transit facility, its nuts--it isn't like MGH is any worse off for the Big Dig or needed to be compensated for *anything* that "we" have done (with the Leverett Circle reconfig, they're arguably better off)

Instead of a who-screams-the-loudest, who who spends the most on lobbyists, how about a who spends the most on actual transit engineering?

Public-Private Partnership, same as worked at Assembly. If Federal Realty could find $15m out of $55m for Assembly, somewhere in Mass General (a ~$750m/year institution), or its affiliates, they should be figuring out how some kind of PILOT or TIF district can be their proof that they seriously want Red-Blue.

"I seriously want a Tesla Model X, but I must be given it at no cost to me by the MassEOT, otherwise it'd set a bad precedent that I have to pay for my own transportation. Oh, and my neighbors want their city park renovated to offset the EMFs from my electric charger (which the State should pay for)." THat's how all these things read, and its got to stop.
 
To be fair, MGH didn't initiate any demands. The state was the one initiating lavish discussions during the whole Charles Circle rebuild about what new transit was going to serve the rebuilt station, rebuilt roadways, redeveloped jail site, and ever-expanding MGH campus. And it got to the point of making recklessly specific "book it, done" promises to MGH execs. Then, when they started backpedalling and throwing in asides about "well, Bowdoin's not good for modifying for ADA or 6 cars, so we might as well just close the whole thing permanently"...that's when MGH got pissed. (And then of course the 2nd GC entrance disappeared from the design too.)

You do not...of totally your own volition...start making promises you are well-aware you can't guarantee follow-through on to some of the deepest pockets in town and then attempt a full-retreat cut-and-run that sacks them with outright transit loss for the proposed gains. Some person or persons was flapping their gums way too much about way too many things for too long, all over the map. MGH didn't retaliate by legal or leverage means (and they certainly could've), but they made their displeasure very bluntly known to Hizzoner down the street (who pulled a giant disappearing act through the whole process) and the folks under the big golden dome on the other side of the hill. And I can't fault them for any of that. It was bush league handling that fucked with their institutional master plan.


As is, Bowdoin's still got no coherent future plans: upgrade it, close it, continue to leave it in a marginalized limbo. Nothing. They won't even take a stab at speculating on what to do with it. So MGH is put in a position where it can't even let up on its vigilance and skepticism about transit loss. Which doesn't lend itself to a productive or trustworthy working relationship over other unrelated future considerations in the Charles Circle vicinity either.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
You do not...of totally your own volition...start making promises you are well-aware you can't guarantee follow-through on
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That's exactly what politicians do. The tipoff is that their lips are moving. If you don't have a Full Funding Agreement, you don't have promise that you can expect follow through on. {anyone who made their own, personal "master plan" for a home in Somerville or Medford expecting the Green Line by 2007, or 2009, or 2011 or 2014, or 2017 or 2020 knows how this goes, and it takes sustained political pressure reciprocated by political will}
F-Line to Dudley said:
To be fair, MGH didn't initiate any demands. The state was the one initiating lavish discussions during the whole Charles Circle rebuild
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Dear MGH: Just because one of your Uncles promised you a Red-Blue pony for your birthday, doesn't mean Mommy and I are going to give you one. Throw a tantrum to express the terrible disappointment, but don't expect it to change what you get. Now, if you'd like to take some money out of savings and we can work out a plan to house and feed the thing, maybe we can make this work.
 
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I can hardly blame any private company for not wanting to sink money into a PPP until we figure out how to get these ridiculously ballooning infrastructure costs under control.

Suppose they commit $100m towards a $500m project (to pick some numbers) and then the state comes back with "oopsie, gonna cost $1 billion and delayed 5 years" a few years later. And then again, and again, like with East Side Access (scheduled to open 2009!).

At least those transit stations that were funded privately, or partially-so, were fairly self-contained projects.
 
Arlington said:
That's exactly what politicians do. The tipoff is that their lips are moving. If you don't have a Full Funding Agreement, you don't have promise that you can expect follow through on. {anyone who made their own, personal "master plan" for a home in Somerville or Medford expecting the Green Line by 2007, or 2009, or 2011 or 2014, or 2017 or 2020 knows how this goes, and it takes sustained political pressure reciprocated by political will}

Dear MGH: Just because one of your Uncles promised you a Red-Blue pony for your birthday, doesn't mean Mommy and I are going to give you one. Throw a tantrum to express the terrible disappointment, but don't expect it to change what you get. Now, if you'd like to take some money out of savings and we can work out a plan to house and feed the thing, maybe we can make this work.
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Oh, come on. The state goes encouraging them full-tilt for years on end to build their master plan around enhanced transit access, then heads for the hills and scuttles the project...then starts engaging in verbal diarrhea about maybe there being a little bit of transit loss instead. And this is MGH's fault for being suckers because they coulda/shoulda/woulda known how the game is played?

The city and state embedded themselves in with MGH selling it all on how it very much wasn't a game...so it's a game and "Nyah-nyah, you lose! Cry me a river!" C'mon, Arlington...you know that's a flippant and simplistic way to dismiss this. Stating one's displeasure at being played is not the same as throwing a tantrum...and MGH did not take hostages, make threats, or gum up the works with anything. When somebody presents themselves as a serious embedded partner a little more involved than pols idly flapping their ass cheeks there's an voluntary transaction of trust. Why should large businesses have any trust in a transportation partnership when the T, Governor, Mayor, and BRA have no compunctions about fucking over the trust of one of the largest businesses in town. They're damn lucky New Balance is even making a serious offer of anything. The state and city have done a fine job ensuring no one else has enough trust in them to stick their necks out.

You want public-private partnerships...solve for the problem of openly discouraging public-private partnerships with this pattern of cut-and-run behavior. We're not exactly making encouraging progress on that front throughout this city, based on all those awesome developer/MassDOT/BRA air rights joints that are also popping up like weeds over the Pike at breathtaking pace.


Matthew said:
I can hardly blame any private company for not wanting to sink money into a PPP until we figure out how to get these ridiculously ballooning infrastructure costs under control.

Suppose they commit $100m towards a $500m project (to pick some numbers) and then the state comes back with "oopsie, gonna cost $1 billion and delayed 5 years" a few years later. And then again, and again, like with East Side Access (scheduled to open 2009!).

At least those transit stations that were funded privately, or partially-so, were fairly self-contained projects
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This too. I'm not sure what in there is for the private entity anyway on a build that is nothing but tunneling under a public street and linking a rather barebones island platform with the current station at virtually zero structural change to the current station. The only surface-level changes at all are that that pronounced bulge at the back of the fare lobby would have 1 elevator and a low-profile up/down escalator popping up through the tile in front of that emergency exit to the circle where the flower vendor sets up shop. That and modified signage are literally it. What exactly would any MGH fun bucks do to help when most of the work touching other people's stuff involves NStar and Comcast utility relocation and City of Boston water/sewer mains. There's nothing to partner on. It's not like those kinds of things work on the premise of a charitable donation to the MassDOT general fund. You have to have a project where there's something the private entity can actually...like, do...to deliver some component of the project. They don't have jurisdiction over the pipes under Cambridge St. and the bedrock that has to be cut up below in order to pop that little escalator into the Charles ground lobby.


So why did they run their mouths at MGH for so long when this wasn't that kind of project in the first place, and the encouragement and expectations they were offering MGH weren't necessary as a solicitation for help?

To be clear, this was way more than the T. Menino was as culpable as anyone at over-pressing the flesh then screening his phone calls when it all started drying up.
 
One of my friends is afraid of birds. This new mural is unfortunately terrifying to her.
 
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