Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Theres 2 billion dollars in unclaimed money in Massachusetts. 1 in 10 people have some. Its like a few dollars for each person. I say we vote to let them just use it on the T. Yea Springfield and Worcester get screwed but they're gonna get screwed regardless. Not to mention if Boston does well they do well also by association. -like springfield building the new subway cars. It'll never happen, but thats a quick 2 billion...
 
It could be spent on SGR for the states RTAs and MBTA. That way, if spent proportionally on the various public transit agencies' SGR backlog, the T still sees the vast majority of that money, but no part of the state is getting completely "screwed," and it is a state-wide investment. I bet the RTAs have a very small SGR backlog. Just buy a couple buses for BAT or LRTA or whatever.
 
stick n move said:
Theres 2 billion dollars in unclaimed money in Massachusetts. 1 in 10 people have some. Its like a few dollars for each person. I say we vote to let them just use it on the T. Yea Springfield and Worcester get screwed but they're gonna get screwed regardless. Not to mention if Boston does well they do well also by association. -like springfield building the new subway cars. It'll never happen, but thats a quick 2 billion...
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Stick -- are you serious -- Some little old lady might have lost some stock certificates in a safe deposit box in a bank which closed and which could be used to pay her granddaughter's college tuition

If you want to make a donation to the GLX fund -- I'm sure Stephanie will take it
 
The T is going to have to do a bunch of weekend shutdowns on the commuter rail to install the PTC (positive train control) system. The GLX people plan to piggyback on those so they don't have to shut it down themselves quite as much. And the work during the shutdowns will be "move commuter rail tracks over, build safety barrier", and once that's done they won't have to shut it down anymore. (Though I'm not sure how the remaining bridge replacements fit into this.)
 
ceo said:
The T is going to have to do a bunch of weekend shutdowns on the commuter rail to install the PTC (positive train control) system. The GLX people plan to piggyback on those so they don't have to shut it down themselves quite as much. And the work during the shutdowns will be "move commuter rail tracks over, build safety barrier", and once that's done they won't have to shut it down anymore. (Though I'm not sure how the remaining bridge replacements fit into this.)
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It's entirely dependent on what the exact itinerary is next to every bridge. Few of these individual tasks have to induce a shutdown by default. Bridge abutment work is done all the time next to active tracks; they induce a speed restriction and have work crews flag trains around the construction crew just like a MassHighway crew would cone off a highway shoulder near a bridge abutment and put a bunch of state trooper flashing lights behind the cones to get people to slow down. Moving the track, so long as it doesn't have to be outright severed and re-welded, can actually be done in a couple hours' time by this giant steampunk-looking machine that lifts the whole intact track assembly into midair and simply re-plops it on the ground several inches to the side. It's done all the time on the regular night shift when some under-track storm drain or cable conduit needs spot servicing. PTC installs and new signal installations go concurrent with the old signals remaining in place with no disruption to anything except when they have to block a road to trench cable under a grade crossing; signals always need a debugging period before going into regular service, so there's always a period of overlap (as seen with the recent Fitchburg upgrades) where old signals run simultaneous with new.


But...when any one task is invasive enough to require a shutdown (e.g. a bridge deck replacement fouling all tracks), then packing all the other work extracurricular in the general area into the same weekend becomes its own sort of scheduling art form. So look at each of these shutdowns as one immovable-object work task at one single immovable-object bridge, wall, etc. that can't be done unless trains are completely suspended...and then a carpet bomb of track gangs being swarmed across the whole corridor to pack, pack, pack in everything else that's on the punchlist rather than having just one lone worksite active while the trains are conveniently absent. More efficient a use of time and resources, and if GLX is going to be a long-term siphon on rapid transit and commuter rail staff availability it's better to soak a large number of workers for single shots of weekend OT, spread their comp time out across the week, and not have one heavy-construction corridor draw too many resources away from other mundane day-to-day maint jobs across the system during the regular workweek. After all, the PTC installs are going to be a 3-year, staff-intensive process where the signal department is out in the field in hard hats walking next to the trackbed across the entire system during every warm-weather daytime shift. If you've got several no-trains weekend to blitz the Lowell Line install and systems debugging in one shot, take advantage because that's more time they can spend on every other line where they have to work no-harm around every weekday train schedule.
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WI8ewy7UqKnr5W5iESvqDaBTVo/edit#gid=694552031

After looking at this data..i thought it would be interesting to find out what these number would look like for Boston after GLX is complete? Anyone know what these numbers would look like?


Edit: So i looked at the numbers on the official website and it says itll add 45K riders by 2030...so the numbers based on this would be Total Riders: 231K
Total Miles: 30.7 Riders/Mile:7,531.....This might all be redundant information so Im sorry to detract from the convo...
 
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DAVE said:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WI8ewy7UqKnr5W5iESvqDaBTVo/edit#gid=694552031

After looking at this data..i thought it would be interesting to find out what these number would look like for Boston after GLX is complete? Anyone know what these numbers would look like?


Edit: So i looked at the numbers on the official website and it says itll add 45K riders by 2030...so the numbers based on this would be Total Riders: 231K
Total Miles: 30.7 Riders/Mile:7,531.....This might all be redundant information so Im sorry to detract from the convo...
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Folks haven't talked ridership in a while and riders/mile in even longer, so I much appreciate the number and the doodle.

If it is 30k new riders and 4.3 new miles that's also about 7500 per mile, and then it loads/extends 20k existing trips for longer/deeper. It is a big deal.
 
DAVE said:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WI8ewy7UqKnr5W5iESvqDaBTVo/edit#gid=694552031

After looking at this data..i thought it would be interesting to find out what these number would look like for Boston after GLX is complete? Anyone know what these numbers would look like?


Edit: So i looked at the numbers on the official website and it says itll add 45K riders by 2030...so the numbers based on this would be Total Riders: 231K
Total Miles: 30.7 Riders/Mile:7,531.....This might all be redundant information so Im sorry to detract from the convo...
Click to expand...

It's going to increase a lot, but significant amount of that is general systemwide growth and development-specific growth at certain stops. Combo of Northpoint + the GLX-induced service increases at the north end of the line is going to explode Lechmere and Science Park ridership. Kenmore's going to keep spiraling up because of Fenway Center. Hynes is going to see a big spike with the air rights tower next door. Cleveland Circle and Reservoir are going to see modest spikes over the Cleveland Circle redev. Brookline Village is going to see a modest spike from the redev of the parcel adjacent to the station. Riverside is going to see a modest spike if more TOD goes in adjacent to the station. And so on.

The new stops are big ridership catchments, but there's a whole lot of growth everywhere across the GL. Enough that they've really got an upcoming dilemma about whether to go for it on 3-car trains on all branches at peak. As well as the obligatory all-doors Proof of Payment to move those platform crowds.


You'll also have to figure in some yet-unsettled business like how the bus routes are going to be reconfigured around the new stations. Since GLX radically remakes the transit patterns in Somerville, it's still an open canvas as to how the Yellow Line route network is going to shape-shift to transfer demand. Ridership projections today are calculated on where the buses currently go, not where they may get re-aligned for the revamped demand patterns. Those yet-determined changes could load-shift ridership between stops or introduce big new spikes at stops, especially College Ave.

The bus reconfig is why Arlington--un-served by any transit stops--has such a big and vociferous advocacy for GLX. Upping frequencies on the 87 down Broadway gives Arlington Center an extremely fast shot to a rapid transit transfer on both Green and Red, and will draw ridership away from the more congested 77 down Mass Ave. if the stiffened 87 frequencies are good enough. Ditto West Medford with the 80 and 94 down Boston Ave. hitting both Green and Red. Big ridership explosion on those routes with the rapid transit transfer gain, meriting much-increased frequencies. It'll probably cause commuter rail boardings @ West Med to crater because of far superior frequencies on an already fast (but currently too infrequent) bus trip into Davis. Possibly similar bus ridership potential from Winchester Center and Wedgemere too if they introduce a new route forking off the 94 @ West Med.

^^All of these are likely to happen in some form or another, but exact makeup is still undetermined and can't be counted in the projected rapid transit boardings until there's an actual bus service plan proposal to study.
 
With that being said, will the new Green Line cars coming be enough to sustain the extension as well as ridership increases due to so much development around the existing greenline? Or were they anticipating this when they ordered the new trains?
 
DAVE said:
With that being said, will the new Green Line cars coming be enough to sustain the extension as well as ridership increases due to so much development around the existing greenline? Or were they anticipating this when they ordered the new trains?
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The 24 cars corresponds to the service increases they need to run the headways on GLX. E's, which terminate at Lechmere, are just going to +1 to Union on the same headway...but Medford's going to get fed by super-extended D's (which currently terminate at Gov't Center) and have equivalent or slightly better headways than the current D's. So you need a lot more cars to balance out the schedule and plug the gaps that open up by sending D's so many more stops out than they currently go. The Type 9's correspond to how much gap-filler it takes to do that, plus enough cushion to ever-so-slightly improve the Riverside headways.

Now...the +26 option order on the Type 9's that brings the total expansion fleet to 50 units is a bit more interesting for systemwide capacity expansion. That is enough to pretty much make trains on most (at least B + D/Medford, and maybe C) 3-car all the time at rush hour, assuming that the Type 7's and 8's stay in good state-of-repair and high fleet availability over the next decade. The only worry about that is the halving of the storage capacity at the slashed-back Innerbelt carhouse. The shop facilities may have been excessive, but 44 cars of yard storage is a hell of steep cut from the 88-car storage originally designed. Things might start getting awfully snug and require lots of load-balancing voodoo between Innerbelt and tiny North Station Yard if they drain all 50 units of the Type 9 order, so let's hope the chopped-back plan leaves some expansion land @ Innerbelt to incrementally add/lengthen the yard tracks on an as-needed basis.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
It's going to increase a lot, but significant amount of that is general systemwide growth and development-specific growth at certain stops. Combo of Northpoint + the GLX-induced service increases at the north end of the line is going to explode Lechmere and Science Park ridership. Kenmore's going to keep spiraling up because of Fenway Center. Hynes is going to see a big spike with the air rights tower next door. Cleveland Circle and Reservoir are going to see modest spikes over the Cleveland Circle redev. Brookline Village is going to see a modest spike from the redev of the parcel adjacent to the station. Riverside is going to see a modest spike if more TOD goes in adjacent to the station. And so on.

The new stops are big ridership catchments, but there's a whole lot of growth everywhere across the GL. Enough that they've really got an upcoming dilemma about whether to go for it on 3-car trains on all branches at peak. As well as the obligatory all-doors Proof of Payment to move those platform crowds.


You'll also have to figure in some yet-unsettled business like how the bus routes are going to be reconfigured around the new stations. Since GLX radically remakes the transit patterns in Somerville, it's still an open canvas as to how the Yellow Line route network is going to shape-shift to transfer demand. Ridership projections today are calculated on where the buses currently go, not where they may get re-aligned for the revamped demand patterns. Those yet-determined changes could load-shift ridership between stops or introduce big new spikes at stops, especially College Ave.

The bus reconfig is why Arlington--un-served by any transit stops--has such a big and vociferous advocacy for GLX. Upping frequencies on the 87 down Broadway gives Arlington Center an extremely fast shot to a rapid transit transfer on both Green and Red, and will draw ridership away from the more congested 77 down Mass Ave. if the stiffened 87 frequencies are good enough. Ditto West Medford with the 80 and 94 down Boston Ave. hitting both Green and Red. Big ridership explosion on those routes with the rapid transit transfer gain, meriting much-increased frequencies. It'll probably cause commuter rail boardings @ West Med to crater because of far superior frequencies on an already fast (but currently too infrequent) bus trip into Davis. Possibly similar bus ridership potential from Winchester Center and Wedgemere too if they introduce a new route forking off the 94 @ West Med.

^^All of these are likely to happen in some form or another, but exact makeup is still undetermined and can't be counted in the projected rapid transit boardings until there's an actual bus service plan proposal to study.
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And don't forget all the development at North Station and Haymarket. Those people are not just going to use the Orange Line.
 
station-changes-1024x535.png


Nice analysis on the Transport Politic from May that I think hasn't been posted here.
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...alator-access-is-what-attracts-transit-users/
 
With the eventual move to PoP, it makes a lot of sense to not have the over the top stations with paid fare lobbies. They should have designed them like this from the start.
 
I guess we should be grateful for any plan to move forward, but when I think of other cities with international aspirations and the prioritization of quality transit on one hand and the very bare bones nature of the GLX on the other it makes me marvel at how well politicians have managed-down our expectations. Yessireee, those newfangled, fancy-schmancy escalators are only suited for palaces; taking the stairs is better for your health.
 
Tombstoner said:
I guess we should be grateful for any plan to move forward, but when I think of other cities with international aspirations and the prioritization of quality transit on one hand and the very bare bones nature of the GLX on the other it makes me marvel at how well politicians have managed-down our expectations. Yessireee, those newfangled, fancy-schmancy escalators are only suited for palaces; taking the stairs is better for your health.
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Tombstoner -- a lot of people seem to always refer to other cities with "Global Aspirations" -- as if there was an international standard for the design and infrastructure of such

The reality is as usual totally at odds with these kinds of eutopian /utopian pronouncements
-- οὐ ("not") and τόπος ("place") or εὖ ("good" or "well") and τόπος ("place")

Berlin's famous S-Bahn for example -- many of the stations in GLX-type areas are barebones
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