Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

[shmessy]

"Medford" is what you'd call a train stop in Medford Square. The center of the city. To call a train stop on the periphery of Medford "Medford" doesn't help with wayfinding. Either just call it "Tufts" or call it "Tufts/Medford Hillside". That's the neighborhood.

You completely left out "Tufts" in your earlier post to which I was responding. You said merely "Medford Hillside". Might as well call it "Snappy Patty's".

That would be relevant to less than 5% of the riding public. It's a mass transit system, not a corner clubhouse. "Tufts" has to be part of the name (and it is the most helpful description to the most people). But, yes, I'm fine with "Tufts/Medford Hillside", if that imports a better sense of place to some people.



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[F-Line to Dudley]

It's been done. . .

 

[ceo]

What I'm hoping is that when the line is extended to Rte. 16, they give it a better name than "Rte 16/Mystic Valley Parkway". I'm holding out for "Mystic Valley", because that sounds like a really cool place for the Green Line to go to (much cooler than the actual place is, for sure).

 

[The EGE]

A very picky historical point: The stop at College Avenue was College Hill, then Tufts College, and Tufts University in its final iteration (pictured above). "Medford Hillside" was always the next stop to the west, at North Street, and I'm glad it's not being used for this stop.

 

[HenryAlan]

Sorry, George, but I disagree with you there. Most folks who are not super local don't know the relevance of "Hillside". If you want descriptiveness to the largest swath of riding public to avoid confusion and folks getting lost (local and tourist), the best name for that station is definitely "Medford/Tufts". I think they did a great job in naming the station for the widest understanding (unlike "Boston Landing"!).

Really, if we didn't already have an Orange Line station called Tufts, this one would probably be called simply Tufts. The Medford is more for the sake of differentiating it from the other Tufts. The other option would have been College Ave., but that only works for people who know specifically which college among the dozens we have. Medford/Tufts works well at both associating it with a place while keeping it a distinct station name.

 

[Ruairi]

"Medford" is what you'd call a train stop in Medford Square. The center of the city. To call a train stop on the periphery of Medford "Medford" doesn't help with wayfinding. Either just call it "Tufts" or call it "Tufts/Medford Hillside". That's the neighborhood.

This is the same with the East Somerville Station. Is is in East Somerville? maybe right on the edge. Seems to me it's in the Brickbottom or innerbelt area.

 

[JumboBuc]

What I'm hoping is that when the line is extended to Rte. 16, they give it a better name than "Rte 16/Mystic Valley Parkway". I'm holding out for "Mystic Valley", because that sounds like a really cool place for the Green Line to go to (much cooler than the actual place is, for sure).

Yes, "Mystic Valley" would be fantastic. You could take the T terminus-to-terminus from Wonderland to Mystic Valley.

This is the same with the East Somerville Station. Is is in East Somerville? maybe right on the edge. Seems to me it's in the Brickbottom or innerbelt area.

And "Magoun Square" is barely in Magoun Square too.

 

[Equilibria]

What I'm hoping is that when the line is extended to Rte. 16, they give it a better name than "Rte 16/Mystic Valley Parkway". I'm holding out for "Mystic Valley", because that sounds like a really cool place for the Green Line to go to (much cooler than the actual place is, for sure).

"Mystic Valley" is absolutely the right name.

 

[Arlington]

Somerville has been very strategic in picking neighborhood names--the better to boost specific property values (and tax revenues). For the Somerville names you can practically see the real estate listings/ads that the station names will be integrated with.

Medford already regrets that "Wellington" doesn't build/enhance a Medford neighborhood brand. Calling Medford/Tufts seems like an overcompensation and under-specificity.

Tufts Medford Hillside would have worked too--it is undoubtedly a station on one of the iconic Hillsides in Medford, and about as close as Magoun Sq and East Somerville are to their ancestral places as it is to the orginal Medford Hillside.

East Somerville will come to define the station and everything to its east--and raise property values across the whole area. Maybe it will also finally beg the question of why Sullivan doesn't have an entrance on the East Somerville side of the tracks.

 

[fattony]

And "Magoun Square" is barely in Magoun Square too.

It’s 1/4 mile from the intersection of Lowell and Medford streets. It’s a stretch, but mostly because Magoun is so small to start with. I’m a half mile from Davis and have no problem saying I live in Davis Square. (Some day when Ball Square becomes recognizable to more than just Somerville and Medford residents, I’ll switch to saying I live in Ball Square.)

I don’t think there is another name that’s better though. “Lowell Street” is not significant enough a street to be a good name as it has no commercial/retail. “The Armory” could have been good, but that’s as far away as Magoun Square.

 

[Lrfox]

It’s 1/4 mile from the intersection of Lowell and Medford streets. It’s a stretch, but mostly because Magoun is so small to start with. I’m a half mile from Davis and have no problem saying I live in Davis Square. (Some day when Ball Square becomes recognizable to more than just Somerville and Medford residents, I’ll switch to saying I live in Ball Square.)

I don’t think there is another name that’s better though. “Lowell Street” is not significant enough a street to be a good name as it has no commercial/retail. “The Armory” could have been good, but that’s as far away as Magoun Square.

These are my sentiments too. I told people from outside of the area I lived in Davis when I was right in Teele which is even better known than Ball. I’m close to Magoun now, and agree that it’s a stretch, but I’m not sure Lowell St. is significant enough to mean much to anyone.

 

[The EGE]

"East Somerville" (also "Somerville" at one point) was the B&M station at Sullivan Square (almost exactly in the footprint of today's platforms), which also lasted until the 1950s. The GLX station is 3,000 feet away, and Brickbottom would have been far better.

 

[RandomWalk]

Naming a station Brickbottom would give the artist complex a sense of possession that far exceeds their true level. The NIMBYs there already gummed up the project enough

 

[George_Apley]

I like "Somerville Junction" for the Lowell Street stop. New name but harkens back to the rail junction that was there (and remains in the form of the trail).

 

[RandomWalk]

And the door chimes always play the melody to Conjunction Junction at the station.

Somerville Junction
What’s your function?
Hooking up hipsters and farmers...

 

[Arlington]

The historical and physical "exactness" is interesting (very interesting to me), but not the real test.

In the final analysis, the stations give their name to the neighborhood--as we've seen with people who live (near the intersection called) Teele Sq saying they live in (the neighborhood defined by the subway station named) Davis Sq. This is also very true with other places (DC Metro) where the transit comes into an area and re-makes the neighborhood.

The real test of a station name is whether it is "plausible enough" and conceptually "close enough" that it will grow to take over the neighborhood. I

And Boston loves its Squares. I live in Union Square, Gilman Sq, Magoun Sq, Ball Sq...they all sound fabulous. I live at Medford Tufts is good enough (not poetic, just a good proper noun)--the real problem is that Tufts Sq already existed (downhill from Magoun Sq).

In Arlington VA, only Rosslyn and Ballston were places before the Metrorail Orange Line came through. Courthouse, Clarendon, and Virginia Square are sensitively-chosen fictions. Yes, there is a Courthouse at Courthouse but it was not a neighborhood, Yes Clarendon was some kind of colonial Plantation, but mostly it was that they laid Clarendon Boulevard atop the cleared Subway ROW, and Virginia Square was a complete contrivance. And nobody cared 5 years later--each became a neighborhood name and only Urban Planning nerds cared how "true" the names had been when given.

 

[George_Apley]

I don't think people living in Teele Square ought to claim that they live in Davis Square. They live on the far edge of Davis's walkable catchment. "I live outside Davis Square" or "near Davis Square" maybe, but not in Davis Square.

Not all station names become the dominant neighborhood identifier. Green Street on the Orange Line is more of a secondary identifier ("I live in JP, near Green Station"). Most streetcar stops are like that as well, unless the stop is named after a defined place (Packards, Coolidge, Washington Sq, Cleveland Cir, etc.).

I don't love "Magoun Square" for the GLX stop because it's *not* in Magoun Square and it will never *feel* like it's in Magoun Square. It's on the periphery of the residential neighborhood that is centered around Magoun Square. There's no opportunity for redevelopment to stretch Magoun Square towards the district, because it's surrounded by triple-deckers and housing developments. Yes, Magoun is the closest established *place* to the station, but the square is far enough away that it's not a good wayfinder. That's why I'd rather it be called "Lowell Street" or just given a new name all together (a la Somerville Junction).

 

[Equilibria]

I don't love "Magoun Square" for the GLX stop because it's *not* in Magoun Square and it will never *feel* like it's in Magoun Square. It's on the periphery of the residential neighborhood that is centered around Magoun Square. There's no opportunity for redevelopment to stretch Magoun Square towards the district, because it's surrounded by triple-deckers and housing developments. Yes, Magoun is the closest established *place* to the station, but the square is far enough away that it's not a good wayfinder. That's why I'd rather it be called "Lowell Street" or just given a new name all together (a la Somerville Junction).

To your own earlier point, though, Magoun Sqaure will become the area around the station. Today, no one who doesn't live there knows what or where Magoun Square is. They can't even pronounce it (itself an issue with the station name).

 

[George_Apley]

To your own earlier point, though, Magoun Sqaure will become the area around the station. Today, no one who doesn't live there knows what or where Magoun Square is. They can't even pronounce it (itself an issue with the station name).

But it won't though, simply because Magoun Square already exists. The idea of where "the square" is won't move to be centered around the station. It will be where its always been and the station will be on the periphery. The area around the station is just housing. Lowell Street between Highland and Medford St is a currently a drag strip, though it will likely be traffic calmed by the city when the station opens. The station will much more be for residents going elsewhere and coming home than serving the square itself. The square itself sits between the Lowell Street station and the Ball Square station (which is actually adjacent to the square it's named for).

IMO a station shouldn't be named after a square unless it a) opens up into the commercial square itself, or b) has redevelopment opportunities to connect it to the existing square.

 

[KCasiglio]

To your own earlier point, though, Magoun Sqaure will become the area around the station. Today, no one who doesn't live there knows what or where Magoun Square is. They can't even pronounce it (itself an issue with the station name).

Maybe in a few decades, but as others have mentioned where is the opportunity for development around the station? Lots of triple deckers do not themselves make a square