Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

BostonUrbEx said:
This isn't a Phase I and Phase 2 type deal, though.

This is opening each station as it is finished. All would assumably be under construction at the same time. The only real Phase 2 here is between Tufts and Medford, which isn't even mentioned, and which you're right about, won't happen.
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Urb.....I think that if you do your homework you will find historic models of such phased infrastructure developement -- how:
1) the Commonwealth paid for filling the Back Bay -- block at a time selling the lots as they went
2) the Transcontinental railroads -- each increment of track that was completed allowed the railroad doing the building to essentially stake a claim on gov't land adjacent to the line -- which enabled the mostly Boston money men (e.g. Jack Gardner) to become much richer

I presume that the creative financing is based on opportunity for TOD in the vicinity of each station

The totality of the extension still might not be opperating any sooner than it would if the T was trying to build it all at once -- but this way construction can start soon

I'm guessing that most probably Union Sq. will be the first target since I believe no land taking is involved for the ROW -- the construction might be able to start as soon as a developer ir lined up to do the station and the TOD as a package

The modern model for this approach is also in Sommerville at Assembly Sq. on the Orange Line where the mall is being redeveloped in TOD around the new Orange Line Assembly Sq. Station
 
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

northpoint24 said:
Hopefully this means something will happen sooner rather than later.

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news...ners_approve_476m_for_gree.html?camp=obinsite
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From the boston.com article:

The Sept. 22 vote by the Metropolitan Planning Organization coincides with the start of the Federal budget year on Oct. 1, and will finance design, planning, vehicle procurement, and early construction, said Joe Pesaturo, MBTA spokesman, in an e-mail.

The cash will be delivered in increasing amounts each year, Pesaturo said, starting with $66.2 million in funding for fiscal year 2012. Funding increases the following years to $79.3 million in 2013 and $94 million in 2014, before the bulk -- $235.8 million -- is disbursed in 2015.

Best bet would be to build the branch to Union Sq. cutting a deal with some developer to do the Station and TOD -- meanwhile the planning, land acquisition and construction can proceed on the branch to Tufts

A major advantage is that the Union Sq. branch can probably begin operations using exiting rolling stock while the new equipment is being fabbed
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

whighlander said:
From the boston.com article:

The Sept. 22 vote by the Metropolitan Planning Organization coincides with the start of the Federal budget year on Oct. 1, and will finance design, planning, vehicle procurement, and early construction, said Joe Pesaturo, MBTA spokesman, in an e-mail.

The cash will be delivered in increasing amounts each year, Pesaturo said, starting with $66.2 million in funding for fiscal year 2012. Funding increases the following years to $79.3 million in 2013 and $94 million in 2014, before the bulk -- $235.8 million -- is disbursed in 2015.

Best bet would be to build the branch to Union Sq. cutting a deal with some developer to do the Station and TOD -- meanwhile the planning, land acquisition and construction can proceed on the branch to Tufts

A major advantage is that the Union Sq. branch can probably begin operations using exiting rolling stock while the new equipment is being fabbed
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Absolutely. Union's advantages are:

1) Minimal retaining wall construction.
2) Don't have to shift the commuter rail tracks at all like they do with the Lowell Line.
3) Only major non-station ROW construction is the flyover ramp at the line split.
4) Medford St. bridge is already built to support install of a 4th deck. Literally just bring the steel beams on a rail car, throw it down, and it's complete.
5) Only existing-ops impacts are the Grand Junction's crossovers to the Valley Tracks getting reconfigured, and Pan Am giving up its storage track (they have other unused space to offset). The freight movements around BET aren't affected until they build the maintenance facility.
6) They can comfortably run the branch without the maintenance facility, on the existing car fleet.
7) They can safely lose the Lechmere yard if Union Sq. has tail tracks with space for 2 idle trainsets on each track behind the station (i.e. couple dozen feet longer than the 2 Heath St. loops). North Station and the second inbound track between Gov. Center loop and Haymarket can store all the other Lechmere extras.
8) Can be done without any power upgrades other than a new circuit break. New draw not required until the maint facility gets built.
9) They can open new Lechmere station first before Union is finished because there'll be plenty of tail track space behind that station to turn things. Meaning Northpoint and the remake of Lechmere Sq. can draw some more immediate benefits.
10) They better do something ASAP to placate Somerville and keep the CLF from suing them over blowing the law-mandated schedule to hell. Getting one of the branches complete is a (weak) victory at meeting a real deadline that comes off a little less quarter-assed than building Lechmere, Brickbottom, and maybe Gilman Sq. then saying "Uhhhh...we promise we'll get the rest of you guys later. Maybe."
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The original developer of North Point was going to build the new Lechmere Station. Could the state get the new owner to build the station in return for allowing a denser development? I think part of the project is on Somerville and Boston land so maybe that's were some additional height could be added.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

We are having a Northpoint meeting on October 5th. The new developers are going to speak about the plans for Northpoint. I am curious to see if they have made any plans with the MBTA.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

F-Line to Dudley said:
Absolutely. Union's advantages are:

1) Minimal retaining wall construction.
2) Don't have to shift the commuter rail tracks at all like they do with the Lowell Line.
3) Only major non-station ROW construction is the flyover ramp at the line split.
4) Medford St. bridge is already built to support install of a 4th deck. Literally just bring the steel beams on a rail car, throw it down, and it's complete.
5) Only existing-ops impacts are the Grand Junction's crossovers to the Valley Tracks getting reconfigured, and Pan Am giving up its storage track (they have other unused space to offset). The freight movements around BET aren't affected until they build the maintenance facility.
6) They can comfortably run the branch without the maintenance facility, on the existing car fleet.
7) They can safely lose the Lechmere yard if Union Sq. has tail tracks with space for 2 idle trainsets on each track behind the station (i.e. couple dozen feet longer than the 2 Heath St. loops). North Station and the second inbound track between Gov. Center loop and Haymarket can store all the other Lechmere extras.
8) Can be done without any power upgrades other than a new circuit break. New draw not required until the maint facility gets built.
9) They can open new Lechmere station first before Union is finished because there'll be plenty of tail track space behind that station to turn things. Meaning Northpoint and the remake of Lechmere Sq. can draw some more immediate benefits.
10) They better do something ASAP to placate Somerville and keep the CLF from suing them over blowing the law-mandated schedule to hell. Getting one of the branches complete is a (weak) victory at meeting a real deadline that comes off a little less quarter-assed than building Lechmere, Brickbottom, and maybe Gilman Sq. then saying "Uhhhh...we promise we'll get the rest of you guys later. Maybe."
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Another advanatage is they could keep the existing Lechmere station for now, and not build the new Lechmere station until the branch to Medford is built later. Commuters don't need a Green Line Ride from Union Sq to Lechmere, so a new Lechmere station is not essential if only the Union Sqaure branch is built.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Charlie_mta said:
Another advanatage is they could keep the existing Lechmere station for now, and not build the new Lechmere station until the branch to Medford is built later. Commuters don't need a Green Line Ride from Union Sq to Lechmere, so a new Lechmere station is not essential if only the Union Sqaure branch is built.
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New Lechmere is going to be an elevated station because the tracks coming off the viaduct don't return back to ground level until after the station site, so that really wouldn't work. The new station structure has to be built first to connect to any tracks going further north, so it wouldn't make sense to keep duplicate routings. Might as well get on with the relocation. The Cambridge St./O'Brien Hwy. intersection's going to be a lot easier to navigate when that narrow overpass is demolished.

That part of the project is pretty easy. I suspect if Northpoint weren't the clusterfuck it's become New Lechmere would've been close to shovel-ready by now and under construction well before the rest of the extension. It's really not too dependent on the rest of the project because there's such generous tail track space behind. The junction and flyover ramp for the Union branch are a good 1500 feet away from where the viaduct extension touches back down at grade. It's a station they could open in total isolation, and the relocation was probably a lock to happen even if the rest of the project collapsed in total.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I have been reading all of the great, detailed posts.

But here a single question: if any of you were betting men/women, would you say the extension will happen? And another side bet, if it does happen, will it be completed by 2021?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

mass88 said:
I have been reading all of the great, detailed posts.

But here a single question: if any of you were betting men/women, would you say the extension will happen? And another side bet, if it does happen, will it be completed by 2021?
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It will definitely happen, we're moving towards a mass transit way of life. With the pressure currently being applied, there seems to be a scramble to get things moving, so it might be done before than.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

BostonUrbEx said:
It will definitely happen, we're moving towards a mass transit way of life. With the pressure currently being applied, there seems to be a scramble to get things moving, so it might be done before than.
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I'm willing to bet that the Union Sq. branch can open within this decade because of the potential of transit oriented development in Union Sq.

I'm not sure that the rest will happen within the next 10 years as there is no money.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

whighlander said:
I'm willing to bet that the Union Sq. branch can open within this decade because of the potential of transit oriented development in Union Sq.

I'm not sure that the rest will happen within the next 10 years as there is no money.
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Union Sq., if they stop dicking around, can probably open by 2015. Relocated Lechmere by the original 2014 deadline. And that mainly depends on station design. The ROW construction itself is simple and contained enough to 1/2 mile of only one side of the Fitchburg Line ROW, without much utility or culvert work outside of the station itself. The construction on the Lowell Line by contrast is pretty complicated because of fitting in the GL and Community Path on the same ROW as commuter rail. Commuter rail tracks have to be shifted over a few feet and signals replaced, the retaining walls and embankments almost the whole length have to be redone, lots of utility work. On just the ROW, not the stations. It's engineering-doable, but to Medford it's essentially creating a northbound version of the Southwest Corridor CR/Orange Line/path without the "Roxbury Little Dig" part (tracks aren't changing grade here like they did when the NEC was depressed in the 80's). It's very involved work to arrange everything inside the Lowell Line cut into a full tri-modal transit highway.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Given the lack of Federal funding, completion by 2020 is optimistic. I'd say 2040 is more like it.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Is the T going to make passengers pay at the gate or on the trolley? I really hope it's at the gate.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

armpitsOFmight said:
Is the T going to make passengers pay at the gate or on the trolley? I really hope it's at the gate.
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I'm pretty sure there will be fare gates. If not, they deserve a really hard slap across the face.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I'm not too familiar with the area this goes through, can anybody say what location is depicted on the cover graphic? I didn't think there was going to be an elevated section other than the crossing of McGrath/O'Brien Highway, which this doesn't resemble.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

PaulC said:
2 questions, what happened to the bike path and will two tracks be enough for the commuter rail and Amtrak in the future?
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Not just commuter rail, but the Lowell AND Haverhill lines combined (it's inevitable, IMO) plus future Amtrak options. The majority of the Providence Line is like that, and it kind of works... [for now]...
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Edit: Nevermind
 
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