Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The bike path will run alongside the Green Line from Lowell Street in Somerville to Lechmere; that's a large part of the route.

Amtrak's Downeaster uses the Lowell Line from Boston to Wilmington, where it splits off onto the Wildcat Branch to join the Haverhill Line. (A few MBTA commuter rail trains also use this hybrid route.)

Responding to an earlier post -- yes, there will be fare gates at all of the new stations.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I was wondering why the bike path wasn't part of the slides. I've seen it in earlier slides.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I was wondering why the bike path wasn't part of the slides. I've seen it in earlier slides.

It's a separate funding appropriation and separate design contract. The Green Line contractors can't really conceptualize it because they're not involved in designing it, so it's not on any of the presentations except for some of the maps that indicate where it's positioned relative to the tracks.

They will, however, create the room for it on the reconfigured ROW when they shift the Lowell tracks around. Lowell Line is a huuuge ROW, formerly 4 tracks to Wilmington and 5 or more in parts south of Somerville Junction where the Community Path will join. Plus most of the stations proposed were former station sites in the steam RR days. This was basically your NEC-North trunkline when the Boston & Maine network was still at max size, there were many more branchlines, the B&M rail yards at Northpoint, BET, and the innerbelt were of massive scale, and they eliminated every grade crossing but the 2 right at West Medford early on to handle that massive traffic load. It's envisioned to be just that in the future when the N-S Rail Link is completed and it's electrified at HSR speeds to feed both Maine/Downeaster and Concord/Montreal service via Wilmington. What's being utilized now on 2 tracks for Lowell, Downeaster, and (small minority) Haverhill service is only a small trickle of the capacity the ROW has built-in space for. This extension was originally supposed to go to Woburn when it was first drawn up in 1945. Someday in the distant future extending it to Anderson/Woburn as a rapid transit line to 128 replacing the inner commuter rail stops may be in the cards.


These stations will get a lot more utilization than the D Line, which is why they'll have full prepayment areas. It's also a provision for future conversion of the line to heavy rail if that Woburn extension happens and the ridership load becomes something you'd rather have served by 6- or 8-car subway trains instead of 3-car trolleys. The line was formally proposed in the 90's as an either/or choice of Blue or Green Line extension, whichever was path of least resistance. It tipped to Green when they couldn't fit Union Sq. into it as a single branch (expensive subway) and needed to fork it as a second branch. For a little while they even conceptualized it as a potential Orange branch spurring off the North Station tunnel portal and following the Lowell Line across BET. Options like that are still easily in play down the line if capacity issues merit swapping the branch over to one of the heavy rail lines. The stations (except Union) are supposed to be designed with heavy rail clearances in mind so they can raise the platforms and be done, and the electrical feed laid such that they can unplug the overhead and plug in third rail (or not...Blue Line overhead is exactly the same as Green's and Orange cars can run internally unmodified if you slap a pantograph on the roof).
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

It's also a provision for future conversion of the line to heavy rail if that Woburn extension happens and the ridership load becomes something you'd rather have served by 6- or 8-car subway trains instead of 3-car trolleys.

...

The stations (except Union) are supposed to be designed with heavy rail clearances in mind so they can raise the platforms and be done, and the electrical feed laid such that they can unplug the overhead and plug in third rail (or not...Blue Line overhead is exactly the same as Green's and Orange cars can run internally unmodified if you slap a pantograph on the roof).

I've asked people on the project about this a couple times, nobody says they're planning for a future conversion to heavy rail. In fact, I think one time someone said not only were they not provisioning for it, but that it wouldn't happen! It's a bit worrisome.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I've asked people on the project about this a couple times, nobody says they're planning for a future conversion to heavy rail. In fact, I think one time someone said not only were they not provisioning for it, but that it wouldn't happen! It's a bit worrisome.

They've also had to have their arms twisted to pain threshold and been badgered relentlessly by STEP to give expressed written commitment that Union Sq. station won't block future extension to Porter, too. Which the latest staged-opening stopgap plan says won't, because the tail track space behind the station poking out a few feet in the Porter direction is now operationally required if they're gonna open the branch a couple years before the maintenance yard is built. But, boy, they did not want to give an answer on even that simple-ass question for eons. Was only brought up at every community meeting for the last 3 years. And they wonder why STEP, the CLF, and City of Somerville got all lawyered up at the latest delay.

Of course they'll say anything to lower the expectations. They don't want to build anything ever inside 128 and will look for any excuse to throw water on it. We're talking some future generation of leadership when absolutely no one currently holding down an upper-level management position--or their like-minded supplicants--is still left at the agency. And are replaced by a culture that cuts out the endemic passive-aggression towards urban core transit and starts thinking like...oh...couple dozen other U.S. cities that are finding full-hearted embrace of it a better option. Ditto for the Governor's cronies and anti-transit City Hall monarchy. A lot can change in 25 years, but yeah...the current crop of "leaders" is what it is and will be for as long as they're occupying space.


I don't think the design particulars on things like power conduits and little technical details have been hashed out because that's very small-level stuff. One of the things they're supposed to do is consolidate all the cables in a trough under the fence between the Lowell Line and GL and leave lots of empty space in the conduits for future electrification of the LL (required if the N-S Link were ever built, and possibly before). Amtrak will bite someone's head off if they find out--whoops!--they'd have to blow 8 figures diging a whole new trench in 25 years to run the Downeaster on electric because somebody "forgot" and blew 8 figures building incompatible conduits. Another provision thing was to use thicker NEC-style catenary supports on only the center fence side of the track, again to provision for the LL so they could just attach a crossarm on the RR side and use one support to hold up both overheads. We'll see if they get amnesia about that one and chuck up something too small requiring total replacement if/when.

Thankfully STEP is going to be paranoid about this stuff, read all the fine print, and call them out on anything that looks fishy or contradictory.


Track clearances aren't really a big deal for provisioning heavy-rail. Every above-ground station on the system has the clearances to handle something as big as a Red Line car around the platforms. It's only the superficial height and jut of the platform itself that needs adjustment, and platform edges on new construction are usually prefab even on mini-highs like the GL. Nothing about the conceptual designs of the stations seemingly throws any quirks into the mix, and track spacing is standard across the system. Ditto all subway tunnels built after the Red Line was completed...everything, including trolley tunnel extensions, used the Red Line spec for default dimensions and clearances. I don't even think they're allowed to engineer new construction at less than those clearances because of how non-grandfathered quirks affect vehicle order bids.

Whether it could potentially be converted X decades from now has little to do with what administrative will exists today than them not making life difficult by shooting themselves in the foot on wiring plant or doing something bizarre to the station designs that serves no purpose but to willfully inhibit future considerations (see Union tail tracks). Again, Amtrak will tear the T a new one if they mess up infrastructure--and by extension political capital--on a federally designated HSR corridor.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

They should build all the extension stations with high platforms.

Then, buy Type 9 vehicles like the ones san francisco uses, which are high level underground, and then above ground stairs magically appear when needed.

Convert lechmere, science park and half of north station to high platform as well.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Then, buy Type 9 vehicles like the ones san francisco uses, which are high level underground, and then above ground stairs magically appear when needed.
Wouldn't that complicate or eliminate handicap accessibility at above-ground stations? The whole point of the Type 8 Bredas was that they had a low floor, which meant a ramp (ADA-pitched) could extend and retract automatically to grade with the "low" platform. (quotes because former platforms were raised to a new low height)
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Its nice and all to see an actual timeline that explains what related things need to be done, in an easy to digest fashion for the laymen (first we need to rebuild the bridges, then build retaining walls, etc. etc.). However, I can't help but look at that timeline they have on every other page and wonder 'why the 3 year gap of no real work at the beginning?'

Its just frustrating.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Wouldn't that complicate or eliminate handicap accessibility at above-ground stations? The whole point of the Type 8 Bredas was that they had a low floor, which meant a ramp (ADA-pitched) could extend and retract automatically to grade with the "low" platform. (quotes because former platforms were raised to a new low height)

Run the type 9s on the brattle loop only.

New stations + lechmere, science park completely high level, NS, haymarket and GV have enough room for highs and lows.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I'm not too familiar with the area this goes through, can anybody say what location is depicted on the cover graphic? I didn't think there was going to be an elevated section other than the crossing of McGrath/O'Brien Highway, which this doesn't resemble.

Henry -- that has got to be the new Leachmere in the distance -- presumably the foreground is NothPoint

Having looked at all the work that needs to be done to clear the ROW for construction and given the actual start is jan 2014 -- I'm going to be really surprised if anythig is running in 10 years
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Yeah that is the new Lechmere station which is the only elevated part of the extension.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The elevated depiction looks cool, and I think the project staff agree. Why else put it on the cover? Boston should consider this option in other places.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

They still need to include a pedestrian overpass over O'Brien Highway. If not, then at least have the crosswalks as raised beds, like they have at some airport roads at pedestrian entrances to terminals. That would force traffic on O'Brien Hwy to slow down at least.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

They still need to include a pedestrian overpass over O'Brien Highway. If not, then at least have the crosswalks as raised beds, like they have at some airport roads at pedestrian entrances to terminals. That would force traffic on O'Brien Hwy to slow down at least.

Official name is a "speed table." When they redid the Dartmouth Mall, they used them all around the perimeter.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I like the redesign of Northpoint to create a central square off the new station. It reminds me of Forest Hills in Queens.

The enclosed bike parking is great. We need so much more at other stations.

I wonder if they will really put wind turbines on the station; seems like the first to go when the costs rise.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

my favorite is the change in name of "Monsignor O'Brien Highway" to "Monsignor O'Brien Boulevard" because changing the name of a road enhances the pedestrian experience.</scarcasm>

That's not fair. I feel completely at peace with the world whenever I'm driving on the Southeast Lane through Braintree Terrace.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

This looks very good. Both the station and viaduct design demonstrate how nice an el. can look. Even in a crowded space, elevated rail should be an option, and I'm glad to see the 'T using it, even if only for a small section.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I agree. To expand the Boston area transit system, tunneling is cost prohibitive, given today's tight fiscal climate. There are many locations and routes in Boston and the metro area that would accomodate an elevated line with minimal aesthetic impacts. Vancouver BC has demonstrated that very well.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The problem is when people thing of an elevated train they think of the loud, dark, and dirty trains of yore. Educating the public will take more effort than just building a subway (I'm half serious there).

Regardless of the technology what is really needed is leadership. You have to commend the pols from Somerville for never giving up the fight for this. Why doesn't Boston have the Green Line down Washington St? Because Menino didn't want it. We need new blood for the 21st century in this city.
 

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