Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

So why not have it end in Somerville until folks in Medford get their shit together?

Like the red line in Arlington, it would delay an extension for 50 years, screwing over those who want it.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Probably because someone would sue the state if they didn't extend it all the way to Medford. It's damned if you do, damn edif you don't.

I'm sure the state is thinking the same, and it's thinking uncreatively. The plans could easily be modified with quietly inserted language like "provisional" or "phase 1" that would forestall significant opposition in Medford while the line is extended at least to Union Square. One party could be assured that the state was "making progress" toward an extension to Medford, and the other that the line would "not necessarily" make it there. These are not really mutually exclusive; the supporters would be admonished that the Somerville portion is a precondition to whatever they wanted, and would need to be built anyway (so why not now, to speed up a possible Medford extension later?) At worst this gets most of the line built while no court can determine fulfillment of the state's promises to Medford until "phase 2" is underway.

Even if there were some kind of action, the T has wiggled out of all sorts of mandates. Wasn't it ordered at some point to restore the Arborway trolley on some weak environmental ground? If I remember correctly, the T pled that it couldn't guarantee access for the disabled if it were to do so.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Even if it stops at the Medford line (unlikely), it's going to at least Ball Square. Union Square is a separate branch.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

True, and annoying for any potential intra-Somerville rides. But question: will the Union Square station be more walkable from Inman than Central Square currently is?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I find Inman Street eminently walkable, a fine way to get from Inman Square to Central. It's one of the prettiest little streets in Cambridge.

The location of the Union Square station is completely undetermined right now. If you're interested in the subject, I recommend attending an official Green Line Extension meeting on Tuesday, February 19 at 6 pm, at the Cummings School Gymnasium, 93 School St., Somerville.

Two separate branches are not ideal, but the alternative of a single line tunnelling under Prospect Hill was rejected for obvious cost reasons.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Inman Street may be walkable (and thanks for the tip; I usually take Prospect), but the walk is still a bit inconveniently far.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Similarly, if you wanted to walk from Inman Square to Union Square, Springfield Street is much more pleasant than Prospect.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

This is a classic case of nimbyism. In the very-big-picture the green line has to go up to atleast West Medford Sq. Mass transit (world wide) needs to be more extensive than it already is. Our industrialized way of life dosn't add up. We just keep destroying/polluting and pretend like we're not dooming our great grandchildern. Sooner or later our wolrd is going to have to go through drastic changes. We can do them sooner and the transition will be smoother, or maybe just possible. But if we wait till the last minute to change our ways it might be too late. The enviornemt will be thrown so off balance that ecosytems fail on a massive level. And then we go into our next dark ages( think Mad Max). Also keep in mind that we will run out of oil in this century, and again if we don't start changing over to a new life style soon our economy won't be able to make the transition either (from oil based to alternatives). I mean some cities, including Boston, already have a decent system and ridership. But we still need to get many more people out of cars and using mass transit, and basically tell the opposition to screw off. Some neighborhoods will change, but it is for the greater good of humanity really. Id rather have a neighborhood change then keep being part of the problem that will make this whole world ugly. Now extending the green line won't save the world, but extensive mass transit is part of the solution. Just in the Boston area, all lines should be extended, the urban ring should get built, and those wind mills should get built. Actually a lot of wind mills should go up. Hands down the cleanest energy out there. And yet all of these things would and will be fought tooth and nail by absolute retards who rather their neighborhood maintian that quaint New England look than look at the big picture. Addressing the enviornment (and transistioning the economy to follow) is the biggest issue for the next 200 years easy, even terroirsts need to drink water and eat. To really make changes on the global level means big changes on the local level (thought the world). Now the Green line will only be a drop in the bucket, but it is a drop in the right bucket. We are like sick children that won't take there medicine b/c it dosn't taste good. But only if the sickness we have will kill us without that medicine.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

In the case of getting from Route 16 to West Medford, it may be NIMBYism in a very literal way -- as in, to build it, the T would have to take the back yards of abutting residential property (or even some of the houses themselves).
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The uninformed masses in West Medford could just continue what they're currently doing when they need to get downtown--get there in 10 minutes on the commuter rail--instead of a Green Line ride that will take twice as long. I know, I know--what about the legions of folks who would transfer from the Lowell Line in West Medford to access jobs at Tufts, or the West Medford residents who are clamoring to get to Gilman Square? Well, the 27 of them will continue to get by somehow.

I agree with the ambitious vision of what needs to be done to avert the oncoming disaster, but the change needed to happen is well beyond what the MBTA or Medford NIMBYs can affect.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The Green Line would be slower than the commuter rail for trips from West Medford to Boston, but it would provide much more frequent service, especially at off-peak times.

Transfer stations between commuter rail and rapid transit can be quite well-used if done properly. Check out Porter Square at rush hour. Perhaps such a transfer could be built somewhere other than West Medford, such as at Tufts (College Ave.) or Ball Square.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Transfer stations between commuter rail and rapid transit can be quite well-used if done properly. Check out Porter Square at rush hour. Perhaps such a transfer could be built somewhere other than West Medford, such as at Tufts (College Ave.) or Ball Square.

But Porter is a pretty different case. With a transfer there you are a quick ride to 6 stations serving major job centers (Harvard, Kendall, MGH, Park, Downtown Xing, and South Station), and the transfer + Red Line trip is quicker than staying on the CR to North Station and transferring there.

If there was a commuter rail transfer station at Tufts it would only be serving those passengers destined for Tufts from the suburbs and maybe those headed for Lechmere (maybe shaving a few minutes off of the travel time if they stayed on the CR to North Station and took the Green Line outbound).
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Maybe the Orange Line's transfer stations are a better analogy. Anyone know how much subway-to-commuter-rail transfer occurs at Ruggles or Malden?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Malden gets a decent number of transfers because it's possible to catch an Orange Line train there that you would miss if rode all the way in to North Station, plus you get to board the Orange Line when it's less crowded.

Ruggles is a pretty big employment destination in its own right, but doesn't have a lot going for it in terms of transfering to the Orange Line (you can catch some inbound Orange Line trains at Back Bay that you would have missed had you got off at Ruggles). Probably just a small number of folks destinted for Mass Ave Station or one of the outlying southside Orange Line stations in Roxbury/JP.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

GW:
"actually a lot of wind mills should go up. Hands down the cleanest energy out there. And yet all of these things would and will be fought tooth and nail by absolute retards who rather their neighborhood maintian that quaint New England look than look at the big picture."

I hope you don't plan on powering your Mass Transit with wind generated electricity or solar for that matter


I can hear and see it now:

The year is 2020

The scene: sitting in a dark Green Line Train {lit by emergency lights} in a dank, dark Green Line tunnel under Somerville powered by Windmills on the Tufts Campus

"Fellow T denizens -- the T requests your patience -- I know its cold or warm and dank and dark -- but you are sacrificing for the Big Picture -- our crack meteorologists tell us that a wind front has been detected in Bedford and we will have you underway in ten to 20 minutes -- the T"

Give it a break -- if we wan to stop burning fossil fuels for electricity -- we have two options Nuclear or turn the lights out

Of course if we want to keep on burning fossil fuels -- there's a lot of coal and even quite a bit of oil-shale, tar sand, methane-hydrates and even some considerable natural gas and oil within the US and its off-shore economic zone that we can tap -- we just have to have the sense to do it

Westy
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Possibility of Green Line stops puts residents in the pink

By Danielle Dreilinger
Globe Correspondent / February 10, 2008

The MBTA has considered extending the Green Line into Somerville for decades. But after the governor's October pledge to prioritize the project - and with the state bound to finish by 2014 -the long-promised service seems almost imminent.

That explained the standing-room-only crowd at the Visiting Nurse Association assisted living center Jan. 29. Easily 100 people came to learn about the proposed Ball Square and Lowell Street stops at one of a series of meetings about the line.

Mike McArdle and Kristine Wickham of Vanasse Hangen Brustlin, consultants working for the state's Executive Office of Transportation, posted draft maps around the room. No state officials attended.

The consultants were gathering information, they said, not presenting a done deal. "We're very early on in the planning process," McArdle said. "You guys know better than we do."

The consultants are examining where in Medford to end the line, whether to run a spur to Union Square, and where to situate the stops. The draft route and stations minimized the need to reconstruct bridges or take over private land.

The consultants will soon put out noise monitors to measure baseline conditions. "You're going to see us out and about a lot over the next 18 months," McArdle said.

But even as McArdle spoke at the Somerville session, noise had started growing in the room, with some attendees whispering over the maps. When he stopped, the buzz turned into a roar. People craned over each other around two tables holding maps and drawings of the two proposed stations. Since there wasn't nearly enough space, small groups crowded the other maps.

Somerville, it seems, abounds with amateur urban planners. No minutiae were too minute to escape analysis.

"To me the only advantage is this is such a dead zone it would be good to use it," said Solh Zendeh, 33, pointing at the potential Lowell Street stop, roughly sited at Vernon Street near the nursing home.

"But where's the connection to this side?" asked Anne Judge, 45, running her finger along the map.

Josh Grzegorzewski, 32, wanted to take the opportunity to extend the community bike path that currently runs through Davis Square. "Ooh! I can race the trolley!" he said, imagining the results.

Many questioned the proposed station locations. Lowell Street would be located in a no-man's land between Somerville Hospital and Magoun Square. Similarly, the Ball Square stop was several blocks from that square, northwest toward Tufts.

Robert Smyth, 57, said that intersection at "Boston Avenue and Harvard Street is incredibly busy already and gets all jammed up."

City Election Commission chairman Nick Salerno brought photos of the old Ball Square commuter rail station on Broadway.

"Obviously it makes sense to consider putting the station there because it was there," said Patti Davis 33, of South Medford. She considered it crucial to neighborhood development. If the Davis Square T stop had been built outside Davis, she said, "nothing would have happened."

Some defended the consultants' choices. Stuart Goldman, 44, pointed out that they chose the Lowell Street location based on a bend in the old rail bed.

Some skepticism remained over the project as a whole. "Every time we hear something good, we hear three things that are setbacks," said C?sar Urrunaga, 31. "I'm taking everything with a grain of salt."

Joe Lynch, president of the Magoun Square Neighborhood Association, thought it wouldn't get done on time. "My common sense says it's going to be 2018."

Another overarching concern was whether the presumed rise in property values along the route would force some residents out. When the Red Line came to Davis, "the old neighborhood, that kind of ran away," Urrunaga said. "People are working to make sure it doesn't happen again."

After about an hour, McArdle summarized some of the input. "We're going to look at bringing that station as close to Ball Square as possible," he said, and connecting the Lowell stop to the bike path.

Many attendees expressed excitement no matter what the specifics. "We just bought [a home] a year and a half ago," said Judge. "The fact that this was coming was, like, 'yay.' "

Goldman said, "As far as I'm concerned it can't get done soon enough."

The next meeting takes place Feb. 19 and covers Union Square.

Official updates: greenlineextension.org
Interactive map: somervillestep.org/green_line/

Link
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The Union Square spur wouldnt have a middle stop?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Still to be determined. If there's going to be a Brickbottom stop, it would make sense to have it on both branches (perhaps like JFK/UMass).
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

On the Union Square Branch, a station where the line crosses Gore Street would be a great location to serve the Cambridgeport and east Somerville areas. It would give a shot in the arm to a rather isolated area, and encourage high density development between the rail line and Somerville Ave. on some underused shopping center parking lots and old industrial land.
 

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