Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Just to be clear there is a difference between the Red Line in a tunnel, the Orange Line above grade, and the Green Line which will be below grade. The difference is only where you put the tracks but none of them require at grade crossings so it really doesn't matter.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

So the transit line should not be built as some kind of subsidy to renters?

A transit line theoretically only benefits land owners in the long run. In fact, what people always forget is that the trolley lines and eventually subway lines were built by companies so they could sell land and houses out in the suburbs.

The catch 22 is that if there is a majority of renters in an area then they usually rely on public transportation the most (see Roxbury) but then if you improve the transportation the land becomes more valuable and rents increase, pushing out the people who need it the most.

I can see many reasons why people wouldn't want the Green Line but I happen to disagree with them. Public transportation can only make the city a better place. What I think is sad is that we try to build transit lines out to wealthy suburbs where they are not needed as much, nor are they wanted as much, but totally neglect the poorer areas that depend on it most.

If large projects like this are such a problem why doesn't the state focus on smaller expansion projects that won't cost as much but will help just as many people. A few I can think of is the Green Line to Union Sq (which lord knows will probably be postponed or eventually dropped from this plan), the Orange Line to Roslindale, or the Blue Line to Chelsea (no real plans for this, why not?).
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Medford representatives and residents, meanwhile, were upset about the location of a station platform near Tufts University, which they said favored the school at the expense of residents who oppose the project and don't want a station in their neighborhood.

Of all the NIMBY arguments against any project, this is my personal favorite!
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

^ Slick piece of writing, eh?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

You can't please everyone. Some residents complained that putting a stop at Boston Ave and Winthrop St wouldn't work because the streets are too narrow and the people and traffic headed towards the T station would clog up the intersection. So the other proposal was to put it further down by Tufts, which is the current plan. However, neighbors down there don't want access to the T.

Related to the other discussion, I can understand the "T comes in, rents go up argument", but if the T comes in, I wonder how many people would be able to sell one of their cars and/or spend less on transportation in general, offsetting any rent increases.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

This idea of selling your car b/c the green line comes in is a bit absurd. Many people need their cars. Not everybody?s lifestyle is based around traveling to and from Boston (dare I say most are not).

Consider contractors, sales people, consultants, etc. These people don?t know where they?ll be from one day to the next. Consider those who actually work in the suburbs (I realize there?s not much in the way of business along 128?but humor me) or parts of cities not adequately served by public transportation. A dental hygienist that lives in Medford and works in most any other town except for Boston/Cambridge has very little desire to have the Green Line come through her neighborhood. A local school teacher, business owner, real-estate agent, and on and on. I can understand why a good number of people who are happy with their neighborhood the way it is might not want a bunch of ?Cambridge wanna-bees? moving in.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I'm suggesting that there are people who currently need a car for work, but with better transit options could get there without it. I'm not even saying this is true for MOST people who live in the affected areas, but certainly at least some. I would seriously hope the Green Line wouldn't simply be pulling people off of all the bus routes, and would also allow some car commuters to use transit.

Also, getting rid of their car certainly wouldn't preclude joining ZipCar for those trips where a car still is needed.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I don't see how having a Green Line stop would negatively affect any nearby residents who own cars. Resident parking restriction signs can be put up if those neighbors have no driveways and park on the street.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I don't see how having a Green Line stop would negatively affect any nearby residents who own cars. Resident parking restriction signs can be put up if those neighbors have no driveways and park on the street.

Let's face it Ron, a lot of people feel threatened by the presence of mass transit. As though someone were scheming in a back room somewhere to take their precious car away from them. People fear change, but sometimes they need to be ignored. Not every urban project is going to be another West End or Government Center debacle.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

What's gas cost now? How much higher does it have to go before Medford actually begs for the the Green Line?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

This is a great project and I hope it happens. That being said, people seem to be overstating the benefits to Medford residents. Those in the vicinity of this section of Boston Ave already have 8 buses/hour during the peak (or one every 7.5 minutes on average, the likely Green Line frequency). Current travel time to Park St might be 5-10 minutes longer with current service than it will be with this project, and I doubt that's going to result in someone who pays $25 to park downtown every day deciding to sell his car.

And to the extent that the T could scale back service on these bus routes once this project opens, area residents are going to see a reduction in service for non-CBD trips to Davis, Porter, Harvard or other parts of Somerville. I don't think Gilman Sq and the corner of Lowell and Vernon Streets are hot destinations for Medford Hillside residents.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

>> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(MBTA)
On May 7, 2008 the Boston Globe reported that the initial recommended stops for the Green Line Extension would be Brickbottom at Washington Street, Gilman Square at Medford Street, and Lowell Street, in Somerville, and two stops on Boston Avenue at Ball Square and Hillside near Tufts University in Medford, with the line returning to Somerville for its final stop at Route 16 and Mystic Valley Parkway. There is also an option for a branch splitting off after Lechmere stopping at Union Square in Somerville. This plan would extend the Green Line to Mystic Valley Parkway by December 31, 2014.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Not to mention, this is not just about and for the people who will live next to it. It's for the many people in many neighborhoods over the course of many years that would use it. To not build it b/c of the person that lives there from 1985 to 2015 shouldn't factor in. The next gerneration of neighbors will except it, and benefit from it.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Which goes back to the whole "city outliving the residents" thing. ^
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Sounds like Medford's finally coming on board:

Green Line receives community support
By Rob Barry/rbarry@cnc.com
Wed May 14, 2008, 04:27 PM EDT

Medford - It was standing room only last night in City Hall, as Medford residents let loose a resounding wave of support and constructive criticism for the Green Line Extension project. On an issue that has generated many heated debates over the past several months, many are seeing the meeting as a landmark turning point in public opinion.

?Tonight was, in my opinion, a watershed moment for this project,? said Councilor Fred Dello Russo, who sits on the project?s advisory committee. ?One hundred members of this community addressed this council and the EOT in a very respectful manner.?

After the Executive Office of Transportation (EOT) released its first set of recommendations to bring Green Line stops to Somerville and Medford by 2014, supporters for the project have been gaining in presence at meetings.

?The Green Line Extension is a great project and what it deserves is a great vision,? said David Choi, an architect and urban planner from Medford Square. ?If we think about great public works in other parts of the world and in other urban dense settings what visions can be brought on, I think a lot more work needs to be done here.?

From his experience, Choi has encountered a growing number of public transit projects around the world that become an enhancement to urban landscapes rather than providing that noisy trolley always jamming up traffic.

?They actually consider beautification of the urban environment,? Choi said. ?They don?t just consider the engineering of the project.

Mike McArdle, of developer Vanasse Hangen Brustlin, and Steve Woelfel, statewide manager of transit planning, gave a brief presentation on station locations and listened to the Medford community for more than two hours.

McArdle said when the sound barriers are built, he would look into more aesthetically pleasing materials.
?It won?t just be plain concrete,? said McArdle.

A number of community members and officials voiced their concern for Tufts University?s silent involvement in the project and just how it would fit into their master plan. After one proposed stop on Tufts property at College Avenue was moved halfway up Boston Avenue toward Winthrop Street, Tufts? silent stance came under suspicion.
Last night that silence was broken.

?I just want to say that the university has sort of held back and not given a stance on a station that would benefit the university,? said Barbara Rubel, director of community relations for Tufts. ?We are interested in working with the EOT to look at the possibility of a T stop at either side of the College [Avenue] bridge.?

In fact, the stop between College Avenue and Winthrop Street was one of the main areas of concern among the 100 city residents who spoke up.

?In the middle, it?s kind of a no-man?s land,? said Brian Christiansen of Orchard Street. ?It?s not very convenient to anyone.?
McArdle said he understood the concerns.

?We are not under any preconceived notion that everyone is going to love the idea of the combined station at College Avenue and Winthrop Street,? said McArdle. ?Both College Avenue and Winthrop Street have their challenges in that the grades coming up from the station location from the roadways are rather steep.?

Some community members suggested forgetting about the Winthrop Street stop, saying it is not a terribly far of a walk to College Avenue.
To take or not to take land

On the matter of land-taking, McArdle told members of the City Council that as far as he knows, no residential foreclosures would be necessary. He would not venture any specific estimates but said any residential land needed would be small strips of back yards in order to widen the tracks.

?At Route 16 there will likely be some takings as we get up by North Street,? said McArdle.

He also said the area from Winthrop Street to Route 16 ? adjacent to Boston Avenue ? would be at the highest risk for land taking.

A complete analysis of necessary land takings is expected by September of this year.

Christensen and a number of other direct abutters said they would not mind losing a foot or two of their yards when they consider what the extension will bring to the city.

?If they had to widen the track, they would probably have to take land from our property,? said Christensen. ?However, I am a very strong supporter of the project, even if it would have to take land from my property. I think we only have the chance to do these projects once in a generation and we may have to sacrifice a little something now. But we should do all we can to tell our children that this project is for them?

After two members of the local tunnel workers unions told the audience about how tunneling would help environmental and sound impacts, Council President Stephanie Muccini Burke spoke up.

?I think at every meeting I?ve been to, tunneling has come up,? said Burke, ?and not just from the tunnel worker?s union.?

Though tunneling is vastly more expensive than laying above-ground tracks, the union workers say it pretty much prevents any impact to the environment and urban aesthetic.

?We are looking at it right now,? said McArdle, ?and I hope in June that we?ll have our reaction to it.?

Dina Jacobs and her husband Eric just bought their first home and chose Medford. They can?t wait for the Green Line.
?Just look at what happened to Davis Square,? said Jacobs.

Of course there are those in Medford who might use the very same words disparagingly.

?The Green Line can come, but I wish it would stop at College Avenue,? said Helen Bragdon, of Harris Road.

Bragdon was concerned that a Route 16 stop could turn West Medford Square into another Davis Square and she likes it the way it is.

Every speaker last night generated applause. In a room full of green ?02155? shirts and eager faces, there was the general sense that progress in this locally controversial project was finally being made.

?I think what we saw was the community finally finding its voice,? said John Elliott, a Hillside resident, ?and recognizing that the sensible thing might not happen without the involvement of the sensible citizenry.?

link
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

2,000 line up for new T station
Route 16 stop backed for extended Green Line

A group of Medford residents presented transportation officials last week with a petition indicating "broad support" for extending the Green Line all the way to Route 16.

At a Green Line Project Advisory Board meeting, the Medford Green Line Neighborhood Alliance handed over a petition with 2,022 signatures to state officials who are expected to make a decision next month on whether the Green Line should be extended to Route 16 or College Avenue, closer to the Somerville line. The group also presented demographic data that showed around 9,000 residents would live within a half-mile walk from a Route 16 stop.

Alliance member Ken Krause said the data and the petition made a strong case that Route 16 would be the best option because the stop would be more centrally located for Medford, Somerville, and Arlington residents.

"Our petition shows that this had broad support from the community," Krause said at a press conference unveiling the details of the petition. "A terminus at College Ave. would attract more cars and would introduce more traffic to an already highly dense area."

But Robert Kangas, a longtime resident of Orchard Street, which is between the two proposed stops, said the neighbors he knows don't want the T station at Route 16. "It's the worst intersection in the city," the 75-year-old resident said. "The homeowners don't want it there. The renters do. I prefer it going to College Ave."

In May, state transportation officials announced plans for the Green Line extension that included a route through the Medford Hillside section. However, transportation officials have been weighing the pros and cons of where the stop should finally rest so most residents in the area could benefit. State officials have been holding sessions for public and neighborhood feedback.

The proposed Green Line stop is aimed at serving residents in Medford, Somerville, and Arlington, and Tufts University.

Stephen M. Woelfel, the state transportation office's lead official for the project, said no final decision has been made. Woelfel said he also was aware of the citizens' petition. "We'll continue to evaluate the proposals and we take all public comments into consideration," he said.

Doug Carr, an alliance member who lives 500 feet from the proposed Route 16 stop, said the petition was collected over a seven-week period and is "the best vehicle to show public support" for opening a Route 16 station. "It will be walking-friendly and biking-friendly," he said. "The buses are major feeders to the area so riders can get to it easily."

Krause said the Route 16 terminus would have no parking available so as not to attract too many cars. "This will not be a park-and-ride station," said Krause. "Riders can go to Alewife for that."

Krause acknowledged that some motorists will inevitably be attracted to the Route 16 stop and be tempted to park in the residential area to ride into work. He said Medford would probably have to step up parking enforcement to make sure outsiders don't park cars on neighborhood streets.

Medford resident Nicole Patterson said she was "conflicted" between the two proposals. She and her husband own a condominium on Orchard Street and live between the two proposed stations. "I still have a lot of unanswered questions," said Patterson. If the Green Line route went through the neighborhood, she asked, "Will our condo lose property value and will our homes become unsellable?"

Patterson said she's also worried that the concerns of working-class residents are not being heard because they can't come to some of the scheduled public meetings.

And if the stop ends up at College Ave.?

"I'd be thrilled," Patterson said.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/08/10/2000_line_up_for_new_t_station/
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

"Will our condo lose property value and will our homes become unsellable?"

Since when did mass transit lower property values anywhere?
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Properties directly abutting train tracks don't seem to do that well. It?s a reasonable concern.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Alliance member Ken Krause said the data and the petition made a strong case that Route 16 would be the best option because the stop would be more centrally located for Medford, Somerville, and Arlington residents.

The proposed Green Line stop is aimed at serving residents in Medford, Somerville, and Arlington, and Tufts University.

Does this mean there's only one stop being contemplated? Shouldn't there be one for Tufts (College Avenue) and one for commuters?

Krause said the Route 16 terminus would have no parking available so as not to attract too many cars. "This will not be a park-and-ride station," said Krause. "Riders can go to Alewife for that."
There's already a four-story garage at this intersection; it belongs to U-Haul. Eminent domain?

Especially since:

Krause acknowledged that some motorists will inevitably be attracted to the Route 16 stop and be tempted to park in the residential area to ride into work. He said Medford would probably have to step up parking enforcement to make sure outsiders don't park cars on neighborhood streets.
 
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Although I don't own, I rent, I find project being concerned about people's property value and invalid argument for deciding projects. Obviously the project must be with in reason and a T line extension is. If your building a sewage treatment plant, then ok I agree. But by this logic neighbors should be able to prevent neighbors from cutting down big trees, b/c large trees add value to a house, and added value to a house in your neighborhood can affect your house value. Also people who live a couple of blocks away would most likely see an increase in house value b/c of proximity to a T line. Maybe people right next to it might see a drop, but maybe not. But people that would see an increase in value can argue that by not putting it in you are cheating us of potential value increase. So it's a slippery slope if you ask me, and totally selfcentered if within reason.
 

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