Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

[RandomWalk]

I think there are some punch list items still lingering, like redoing parts of the slab at the FVMs in Magoun

 

[Delvin4519]

I think there are some punch list items still lingering, like redoing parts of the slab at the FVMs in Magoun

But that should not be requiring shutting down the entire Medford - East Somerville segment for almost the entire holiday season for 15 days. Stuff like that should be able to be done in a weekend shutdown or with early access. I can understand shutting down Medford to East Somerville on the first weekend, early nights, or on the last day; to get materials in and out, but shutting down the entire GLX for 15 entire days is madness insane. This shutdown was originally supposed to start at Lechmere in the November 2023 presentation, but got extended to Medford way beyond insanity.

The closure should really be starting from East Somerville primarily, with the Medford shutdown only on the first weekend, early access, plus the last day.

 

[devnull]

Yeah, especially given that, for this weekend, they've been able to keep Medford - E. Somerville opened while E. Somerville - Park St. and Union Sq. - Park St. are closed. That indicates to me that, since they're closing E. Somerville - Medford during that future shutdown, they have some trackwork to do on that section (in addition to supporting the trackwork in the central subway).

 

[thepianoperson]

Yeah, especially given that, for this weekend, they've been able to keep Medford - E. Somerville opened while E. Somerville - Park St. and Union Sq. - Park St. are closed. That indicates to me that, since they're closing E. Somerville - Medford during that future shutdown, they have some trackwork to do on that section (in addition to supporting the trackwork in the central subway).

I honestly think people would prefer the entire branch be closed rather than having to take green line to a shuttle bus to the orange line to get to work downtown - not that they don’t have other reasons to close the whole branch but that could be a main reason? People can stomach a forced three-seat ride for a weekend but for a whole two weeks at commuting time (with a very long walking transfer from train to bus at both east Somerville and north station no less) could be unacceptable for many.

 

[Stlin]

At least part of the reason for the full GLX shutdown is just how GLX was built - it doesn't exactly have the crossovers. The one between East Somerville and Lechmere is probably unusable for revenue service during maintenance, as accessing the viaduct from the truckpad requires it for a reverse move - too much conflict, and even accessing the VMF is probably tricky during that. The next crossover on GLX is between Ball and Magoun Sq. As such, I'm curious to know how they're running Medford-East Somerville during this weekend - it'd almost have to be a single train per track operation from Magoun to East Somerville, reversing direction at East Somerville. I can see how it'd likely not have the capacity for any sort of weekday load.

 

[cubbe8]

At least part of the reason for the full GLX shutdown is just how GLX was built - it doesn't exactly have the crossovers. The one between East Somerville and Lechmere is probably unusable for revenue service during maintenance, as accessing the viaduct from the truckpad requires it for a reverse move - too much conflict, and even accessing the VMF is probably tricky during that. The next crossover on GLX is between Ball and Magoun Sq. As such, I'm curious to know how they're running Medford-East Somerville during this weekend - it'd almost have to be a single train per track operation from Magoun to East Somerville, reversing direction at East Somerville. I can see how it'd likely not have the capacity for any sort of weekday load.

Is there no truck pad on the Union Square branch? How did they get in the materials last week?

 

[Stlin]

Is there no truck pad on the Union Square branch? How did they get in the materials last week?

Union does sort of have its own truck pad - it's just technically also the grade crossing of the Union Square Branch's VMF access track within the yard boundaries.

 

[thepianoperson]

At least part of the reason for the full GLX shutdown is just how GLX was built - it doesn't exactly have the crossovers. The one between East Somerville and Lechmere is probably unusable for revenue service during maintenance, as accessing the viaduct from the truckpad requires it for a reverse move - too much conflict, and even accessing the VMF is probably tricky during that. The next crossover on GLX is between Ball and Magoun Sq. As such, I'm curious to know how they're running Medford-East Somerville during this weekend - it'd almost have to be a single train per track operation from Magoun to East Somerville, reversing direction at East Somerville. I can see how it'd likely not have the capacity for any sort of weekday load.

At least this weekend, they were using the crossover between East Somerville and Lechmere to turn trains, no single track operation. The southbound train would pull in to East Somerville, let everyone off, continue past the crossover to stop, then cross to the northbound track on the way back. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right that during a more substantial shutdown that’s not feasible for access reasons.

 

[themissinglink]

Fare evasion costs the T millions. Now it plans on making riders pay up. - The Boston Globe

The transit agency has estimated that it loses close to $30 million each year to fare evasion. A new team is its answer to recouping that lost revenue.

www.bostonglobe.com

Fare gates can’t be installed at Lechmere and Union Square stations because the designs don’t have sufficient space — a byproduct of the project being scaled down due to soaring costs.

It seems like there's enough room at Union Square to add two or maybe three fare gates by slightly widening the path to the platform. It's obviously debatable whether they should do that since the GLX opened so recently, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done.

 

[WestMedford]

Fare evasion costs the T millions. Now it plans on making riders pay up. - The Boston Globe

The transit agency has estimated that it loses close to $30 million each year to fare evasion. A new team is its answer to recouping that lost revenue.

www.bostonglobe.com

It seems like there's enough room at Union Square to add two or maybe three fare gates by slightly widening the path to the platform. It's obviously debatable whether they should do that since the GLX opened so recently, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done.

Saw this perched at the fare machines at the top of Medford/Tufts last week:

 

[Ruairi]

Saw this perched at the fare machines at the top of Medford/Tufts last week:

View attachment 58236

Absolutely bonkers system.
What happens if you tap a bank card on a scanner in the train? How do you validate that? If they have readers that can read that, why do you need to validate fares at the vending machines? (unless you're paying cash)

 

[TheRatmeister]

How do you validate that?

With the handheld readers.

If they have readers that can read that, why do you need to validate fares at the vending machines?

You don't.

 

[kdmc]

Yeah, these guys have been at Ball Sq from time to time. Every time, I walk by them, they ask something like "do you know how to validate your fare with your Charlie Card?", I respond "I'm paying on the train with my credit card", they say "OK, make sure you do that" and I say "Yup." No big deal.

I'm pretty sure these people are just for education, not enforcement, and that early next year they will begin enforcement on the train with fare inspectors.

 

[Ruairi]

With the handheld readers.

You don't.

So the system for the Green Line E branch is
use a charlie card but only at the platform vending machine at some stations and get a paper receipt.
use a credit card or cash at the platform vending machine at some stations and get a receipt
use a credit card or charlie card to tap in to the system at fare gates at some stations and don't get a receipt
use a credit card on the train and don't get a receipt.

Say I use my charlie card to tap in at Park heading north and get checked at East Somerville. Do they have a handheld device that scans the charlie card and says it was last used at Park st. 15 mins ago?
If they have that technology, why would I need to validate a charlie card ride anywhere?

 

[TheRatmeister]

Do they have a handheld device that scans the charlie card and says it was last used at Park st. 15 mins ago?

I believe this functionality is coming as part of the new Charliecards.

If they have that technology, why would I need to validate a charlie card ride anywhere?

I don't understand the question. How are you supposed to start a journey without validating?

So the system for the Green Line E branch is
use a charlie card but only at the platform vending machine at some stations and get a paper receipt.
use a credit card or cash at the platform vending machine at some stations and get a receipt
use a credit card or charlie card to tap in to the system at fare gates at some stations and don't get a receipt
use a credit card on the train and don't get a receipt.

Right now the system is:

- Tap using a credit/debit card or Charliecard at a fare gate
- Tap using a credit/debit card on the train using any doors at GL surface stops and GLX stations
- Tap using a Charliecard using the front door at GL surface stops
- Tap using a Charliecard at the fare machines to validate at GLX stops
- Pay cash onboard at GL Surface stops or at fare machines

This is way too complicated which is why after the new Charliecards are rolled out the system will be:
- Tap using a credit/debit card or Charliecard at a fare gate
or
- Tap using a credit/debit card onboard the train at GL surface stops and GLX
or
- Pay cash at a fare machine or onboard the train at GL surface stops

 

[stevebikes]

Yeah, these guys have been at Ball Sq from time to time. Every time, I walk by them, they ask something like "do you know how to validate your fare with your Charlie Card?", I respond "I'm paying on the train with my credit card", they say "OK, make sure you do that" and I say "Yup." No big deal.

I'm pretty sure these people are just for education, not enforcement, and that early next year they will begin enforcement on the train with fare inspectors.

Yeah they've been at Medford/Tufts too.

I used Ball Sq a couple of times during the latest Red Line shutdown, and they weren't there, and there's just no friction against not paying. You don't even walk past the validating machines, they're off to the side. Once you're on the platform, everyone's just trying to get a spot on the train.

I know this works in other countries but I think people are underestimating the huge cultural shift this will require.

 

[Ruairi]

This is way too complicated which is why after the new Charliecards are rolled out the system will be:
- Tap using a credit/debit card or Charliecard at a fare gate
or
- Tap using a credit/debit card onboard the train at GL surface stops and GLX
or
- Pay cash at a fare machine or onboard the train at GL surface stops

Ok, so with the new charlie card, they can use a hand held device to see where I boarded even if I use a platform vending machine and do away with needing to validate my ticket?
And what if I take the silver line from the airport with no ticket, switch to park, then go to Gillman sq and they check me for a ticket there. I just say I got on at the Airport?

 

[Ruairi]

Just to be clear, I'm not having a go at you, I appreciate the info
I just think it's daft trying to police a system with so many different versions of paying.
How much would fare gates at the 7 new GLX stops cost and how much would they save?

 

[Lrfox]

^I think part of the reason the enforcement isn't happening yet is because the fare collection system is in transition and both confusing and easy to take advantage of. It will be simpler when the new Charlie Cards are in place. Theoretically, they should be able to allow riders to tap a Charlie or Credit Card on the Silver Line at Airport without charging them so that they can use it as proof of boarding. So a lot of the confusion/complication should dissipate and those complications should be addressed in a year or so.

What I don't understand is why the T isn't going to provide receipts and change tickets for cash payments. They want people to pre-load Charlie Cards with cash at vending machines and tap on board like everyone else. Realistically, I think most cash users are unlikely to do this. So if someone boards a Medford/Tufts train at Lechmere and pays cash on the train, how are enforcers at, say, Magoun going to be verify that? If it's not clear for riders and there's no way to reliably, easily verify and enforce payments, it's not going to work.

 

[JeffDowntown]

^I think part of the reason the enforcement isn't happening yet is because the fare collection system is in transition and both confusing and easy to take advantage of. It will be simpler when the new Charlie Cards are in place. Theoretically, they should be able to allow riders to tap a Charlie or Credit Card on the Silver Line at Airport without charging them so that they can use it as proof of boarding. So a lot of the confusion/complication should dissipate and those complications should be addressed in a year or so.

What I don't understand is why the T isn't going to provide receipts and change tickets for cash payments. They want people to pre-load Charlie Cards with cash at vending machines and tap on board like everyone else. Realistically, I think most cash users are unlikely to do this. So if someone boards a Medford/Tufts train at Lechmere and pays cash on the train, how are enforcers at, say, Magoun going to be verify that? If it's not clear for riders and there's no way to reliably, easily verify and enforce payments, it's not going to work.

I thought by Phase 5 of implementation cash payment onboard was going away. Only tap and go payment in vehicles. Cash accepted at vending machine and retailers to load Charlie cards.