Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

[choo]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

For all its hype, Davis does have a lot of 1 story buildings and vacancies still. The backside on highland street (where 5 horses tavern and the banks are) is a dead zone compared to elm.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Somerville hipsters don't go to Starbucks. They/We go to Diesel, Bloc 11, Sherman, Fortissimo, True Grounds, and the Armory Cafe. Speaking of which, the Diesel/Bloc 11 folks are about to open 'Forge Baking Company' just a stone's throw from Wilson Square.

But someone in Somerville Davis Square goes to Starbucks, because there is one located directly across the street from Diesel Café.

And FWIW I am a huge fan of Diesel and Bloc 11.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Union is definitely the biggest place to expect Davis-style gentrification. Expect all of the light industrial parcels around Union towards Target, Inman and Market Basket to go away pretty quickly.

Brickbottom/Washington will effect the isolation of East Somerville, but I don't expect tons of gentrification or development on the Inner Belt side. At least not until McGrath comes down.

"Gilman Square" of course, doesn't even really exist yet. Right now it's just the miserable merge of Pearl and Medford streets up to the School St intersection and back to the Walnut St intersection. The square is planned to be made by restructuring the intersection. There's some potential for rehab/redev of some of the old buildings and gas station sites (guessing at least one of those pump stations will stick around for years though), but the area is thoroughly residential on the north side, and institutional on the south side. The best thing about the future Gilman stop is helping Somerville High kids who live around other GLX stops get to and from school easier. You're gonna see the GLX packed with SHS kids getting off at Gilmore.

Somerville Junction/Lowell Street is also residential, with not a lot of potential for redevelopment (not in the medium term anyway). It will give a boost to the Medford Ave commercial strip of Magoun Square, and maybe spur some activity on Highland. Magoun Square doesn't have any stops right in the square, but both Lowell and Ball are really close. Ball Square is already gentrifying rent-wise as Davis gets ridiculous, and it will start to spill over into Magoun after GLX arrives. More eating/drinking options have already popped up over the last few years.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

But someone in Somerville Davis Square goes to Starbucks, because there is one located directly across the street from Diesel Café.

And FWIW I am a huge fan of Diesel and Bloc 11.

Davis Starbucks is always packed full with Tufts kids and post-grads who camp out for days working on assignments. Starbucks' also has a large enough following that they will do fine pretty much anywhere they set up shop.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

For all its hype, Davis does have a lot of 1 story buildings and vacancies still. The backside on highland street (where 5 horses tavern and the banks are) is a dead zone compared to elm.

Hard to redev one-story sites, especially if they're occupied by popular businesses. For one, a lot of landlords are wary of losing sure-thing rising rents to invest in redeveloping their property. Also, business owners generally won't want to risk losing their location after redevelopment, not to mention having to close down for said redev.

There's a lot of inertia in bustling areas that prevents one-story buildings from being upzoned, despite how much economic sense as it may make.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

folks, it's Gilman Square. Not Gilmore.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

folks, it's Gilman Square. Not Gilmore.

Oof. I knew that too. Womp.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Expect all of the light industrial parcels around Union towards Target, Inman and Market Basket to go away pretty quickly.

There's a substantial push-back to preserve the light-industrial area west of Market Basket and not let it succumb to condo development. That area contains Artisan's Asylum, Brooklyn Boulders, soon-to-open Aeronaut Brewery, and a bunch of other small industrial businesses, artists' studios, music rehearsal spaces, and the like. It's an important part of Somerville's industrial future as well as its past.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

There's a substantial push-back to preserve the light-industrial area west of Market Basket and not let it succumb to condo development. That area contains Artisan's Asylum, Brooklyn Boulders, soon-to-open Aeronaut Brewery, and a bunch of other small industrial businesses, artists' studios, music rehearsal spaces, and the like. It's an important part of Somerville's industrial future as well as its past.

I agree. I'm thinking more of all of the independent mechanics and repair shops. West of MB probably won't pick up with a lot of redev until GLX continues to Porter and plops a stop at Conway Park or Wilson Square.

 

[choo]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

In 10 years, Union will be the hands down best square in Somerville and rival Central for the best on this side of the river (Harvard is kinda different for a variety of reasons).

I think Ball Sq. will see a lot more activity and interest because Tufts students will gravitate this way more after the T and maybe shift the balance of power away from Davis a bit. Ball's success will bleed to Magoun, which retain more its pre- GLX flavor but will see things fill in a bit. It already has some great new spots in the last 12-18 months that have come online.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I just brought up the A/B comparison to show you can have the green line running through your community and still be a shithole… I mean a working class community.

"Working class community" means the sole retail you have nearby is a Tedeschi, a packie and a gas station. Maybe a Dunkin if you are lucky. All too common a scene in Boston's "squares" and neighborhoods.

Allston by Harvard/Comm is not that way, thankfully. Other parts, yeah.

As far as gentrification goes, I remain unconvinced that the Green Line will do what some people think it will.

I think there's some truth to this. I saw a recent report that studied mobility and found that better access to other parts of the region might result in relative disinvestment in the local area. It makes sense: if your area sucks, and it's easy to leave, then you'll go elsewhere for everything but sleep. That means that only neighborhoods which already exist "as a place" will be bolstered by the GLX. So Union Square, Ball Square, for example. Davis and Porter were already established before the Red Line, IIRC, although with different character than today. That was before my time though, so someone else can chime in on that hypothesis

Might explain why Orange Line-North is fairly sucky, and why Red Line-Ashmont hasn't spurred the same kind of vitality that Allston has. Of course it could be a lot of other factors. Access by foot to many rapid transit stations is fairly scary, unfortunately. Especially on the Blue Line past Maverick (which is one of the few nice stations), the Red Line near the Southeast Expressway, and the new sections of the Orange Line. And of course, each of these places has its own unique history of crap planning and zoning.

The Green Line doesn't really help one get to these spots [Cambridge] easily, it just provides easier access to downtown Boston.

There's supposed to be a re-envisioning of the bus network post-GLX. But I suspect that most people going to Cambridge will continue doing what they're doing now: biking or walking.

 

[jdrinboston]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Might explain why Orange Line-North is fairly sucky, and why Red Line-Ashmont hasn't spurred the same kind of vitality that Allston has.

Perhaps an oversimplification, but it would seem that many of the neighborhoods where Rapid Transit seems to spur vitality are within close proximity to nearby colleges. Porter/Davis are close to Harvard, Lesley & Tufts. Allston goes without saying - BC/BU. Union Square would definitely fit into that category and obivously the College AVenue/Ball Square stations will benefit from their proximity to Tufts.

I'm not sure if we have really seen a residential/commercial neighborhood transformed by introduction of RT minus a college component.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Oh I tossed Allston in there as an example of a neighborhood without "good access" to the core, as defined as having "rapid transit", which I don't count the "B" branch as being.

Wouldn't you say Maverick is a fairly vibrant area that does not have a nearby college? It's not new though. Ashmont, Savin Hill and Field's Corner have good potential to come back/are coming back. Although those are all "close" to UMass.

 

[choo]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Perhaps an oversimplification, but it would seem that many of the neighborhoods where Rapid Transit seems to spur vitality are within close proximity to nearby colleges. Porter/Davis are close to Harvard, Lesley & Tufts. Allston goes without saying - BC/BU. Union Square would definitely fit into that category and obivously the College AVenue/Ball Square stations will benefit from their proximity to Tufts.

I'm not sure if we have really seen a residential/commercial neighborhood transformed by introduction of RT minus a college component.

I don't think Union Sq. Somerville fits in that category at all. I'm not saying students and post-grads dont end up there, but it is not a student sq. It is very much a city square

 

[jdrinboston]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Oh I tossed Allston in there as an example of a neighborhood without "good access" to the core, as defined as having "rapid transit", which I don't count the "B" branch as being.

Wouldn't you say Maverick is a fairly vibrant area that does not have a nearby college? It's not new though. Ashmont, Savin Hill and Field's Corner have good potential to come back/are coming back. Although those are all "close" to UMass.

I was thinking more in terms of examples where RT has been introduced in the last 30 years or so. (Alewife extension/Orange Line relocation) Maverick is certainly vibrant, but it's had access to transit since the early 20th century, so I wouldn't put it in the category of being transformed by transit. If anything has contributed to that part of East Boston pinging on the radar, it's been the improvements associated with the Big Dig i.e. Bremen Park,/Williams Tunnel. I'm still fairly new to that area, but I get the sense that people no longer feel as isolated from the rest of the city as they once did.

I may be biased, but I think the entire Blue Line corridor is a real diamond in the rough that is ripe for gentrication. The blue line is easily the most modern/reliable of the RT lines right now and there has been a lot of rehab going on up and down Bennington Street heading toward Orient Heights. You get a lot of house for your money here, and for all of the talk about the airport nearby - I hardly notice it's presence and most of those homes have or are eligible for the Massport windows, which I hear are quite effective.

Another area to keep an eye on is the Wonderland area. Ground was recently broken on an apartment building up there if that is successful, there's a whole bunch of parking lots there waiting to be built on.

 

[jdrinboston]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I don't think Union Sq. Somerville fits in that category at all. I'm not saying students and post-grads dont end up there, but it is not a student sq. It is very much a city square

But will it become a "student" square once there is direct access to RT? If the GL were to ever be extended to Porter, I would say that it might be a given. Were Porter/Davis student squares before the Alewfie extension? Honest question. I'm too young to know.

 

[underground]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Here's the map comparing median rents to current lines. If I were to guess what Somerville looks like post GLX, I think you're looking at either a JP or Southie situation. You've got a comparable distance to downtown, housing stock (with landlords economically motivated to upgrade unlike Allston), real/perceived crime level, and overall connectivity. The more surprising thing is that Somerville rents are more or less already in line with JP. So maybe it won't have much of an impact past what it's already had at all.

Edited when I realized I didn't need two paragraphs to say that.

 

[davem]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Here's a question for those of you who have been around here longer than I. Does your typical Somerville townie work in downtown Boston, or is it more "man with a van" type jobs / 128 car centric commuters? If its the latter I would understand the pushback more.

 

[kjdonovan]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Re: Sarma and Gilman Sq, anyone interested in the area should read the city's planning document. They did a good job: http://www.somervillema.gov/sites/default/files/GilmanSAP-PublicReview8-21-2013.pdf

Also, new building popping up by Sarma that may bring in a (gasp) coffee shop: http://www.somervillema.gov/sites/default/files/documents/170SchoolStPlans_09-03-2013_0.pdf

Also, (gasp gasp) Diesel and Bloc 11 owners are building a new bakery (though Ron already knows this since he tweeted them, I see) https://twitter.com/ForgeBakingCo/status/430809592067391488

With regards to why Union Square will be wildly successful, it has nothing to do with hype, but with quality housing stock. Prospect Hill has some of the best housing stock between Harvard Square and Charlestown. It was assured to be a good neighborhood back when they built it in the 19th century. It's just taking a while. The arc of property values is long, but it bends toward ROI. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.383...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sUkVKFIj6Crhferj7OdibJQ!2e0

 

[pixelsand8]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Another area to keep an eye on is the Wonderland area. Ground was recently broken on an apartment building up there if that is successful, there's a whole bunch of parking lots there waiting to be built on.

Funny you mention this. I've been having lots of long term visions about where Boston could build up residential high rise districts in "planned" neighborhoods along transit (ala "Vancouverism"). The whole strip along Revere Beach Blvd struck me as an ideal spot. So much empty space, water views, already has a few 20 story buildings. Imagine a modern skyline springing up along that corridor. Granted I'm talking long term here, like 50 years. I don't see anything in the near future.

But will it become a "student" square once there is direct access to RT? If the GL were to ever be extended to Porter, I would say that it might be a given. Were Porter/Davis student squares before the Alewfie extension? Honest question. I'm too young to know.

I kind of disagree with the notion that it isn't already a student square. It's not on a transit line but it's easy biking distance to both Harvard and MIT. There is no way the place would be transforming the way it has without this. The area itself has no colleges but neither do Central and Inman Square and they are clearly influenced by proximity to Harvard/MIT. I don't think a Porter Square connection will change much. You aren't going go Union-Porter-Harvard/Kendall. Maybe Union-Porter-Davis but even in that case a bus would make more sense seeing you don't need a transfer.

With regards to why Union Square will be wildly successful, it has nothing to do with hype, but with quality housing stock. Prospect Hill has some of the best housing stock between Harvard Square and Charlestown.

This much I will attest to. I lived in a beautiful home on top of Prospect Hill for a couple years, I really enjoyed walking around there. Not just for the houses, but the view from the park is one of the best in the city (the castle structure is cool too).

The strange thing is, there is a distinct change in feel on the other side of the hill, near city hall. You aren't far distance wise but it feels much more downscale than the Union Square/Prospect Hill area. While I still think proximity plays the greater role in this area's gentrification, part of it is psychological. It just feels more connected to "upscale" Cambridge based on the topography and the nicer housing stock.