Green Line Extension to Medford & Union Sq

[Equilibria]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

My understanding of the neighborhood concern about this project is that people are much more concerned about the social effects of the development than the physical ones. I haven't heard nearly as many complaints about noise or construction as I have heard about gentrification and the pricing out of longtime residents. In other words, I think the concern is more that the Green Line Extension will bring "neighborhood improvement" than "neighborhood destruction". It's certainly a frustrating argument from a planning perspective, and it seems really dumb to delay improvements out of fear of making a neighborhood more attractive, but there is no denying that if you've been renting in Somerville for 20 years near one of these future stations, you probably won't be able to afford to stay in your apartment in a couple years. And many Somerville townies who own their houses but don't want to move worry about the influx of T-riding yuppies and increased property taxes more than they value the prospect of a higher payout if/when they decide to sell.

You have to remember that Somerville has been building a reputation as the more down-to-earth, cheaper, less arrogant alternative to Cambridge for decades now. I could see where some there might find the prospect of a "Kendall-like" or even "Harvard-like" Union Square redevelopment to be threatening. Also, remember how heavy-handed Somerville has been in terms of threats of eminent domain for what has essentially become an urban renewal project around Union. That neighborhood may not have the nostalgic appeal of the West End, but for the people who live and own property there the change will be no less jarring.

Nobody is seriously talking about building more highways in the Boston area, so comparing public transit expansion to highway expansion seems a little disingenuous to me. That being said, precisely because public transit is so much more desirable than driving, I think that running a pair of tracks will actually have more of a social impact on its surrounding community than laying more asphalt. It will be a "positive" social impact, for sure, but it will be an impact on many people none-the-less.

The first part is exactly right, but public transit is not "more desirable" than driving. It might be more desirable in Somerville, or at least in the parts of Somerville where residents are already taking the bus everywhere and the Green Line will provide an alternative, but if transit were inherently more desirable than driving everyone would be living in urban settings and taking streetcars around.

The social impact of building a transit line, though, is indeed probably greater than a highway would be in a place like Somerville, simply because the land use and social regime encouraged by highways doesn't have the opportunity to take root in a developed semi-urban area, while the regime encouraged by modern transit (gentrification and high-end street life) is both possible and actively encouraged by cities seeking tax revenue.

 

[Arlington]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

NIMBYs aren't the major blocker of transit expansion. Money is.

Money, surely, but the care, feeding, pacification and payoffs to NIMBYs are a big reason why we get half the transit for the same money as European contries. The other half is in poor construction-labor productivity (same tunnel boring machine has 2x the staffing in the USA as in Europe)

 

[Matthew]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Good transit absolutely will increase land values. It is attractive to be located near something like what the GLX will be.

That's why good transit has to be accompanied by good increases in housing supply.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Good transit absolutely will increase land values. It is attractive to be located near something like what the GLX will be.

That's why good transit has to be accompanied by good increases in housing supply.

It's not that simple, though. If all the increased housing supply is located right next to the station and priced as luxury, all it will do is increase the number of yuppies (or techies) moving in, thus accelerating the cultural change rather than fighting it.

Frankly, requiring affordable housing doesn't really do it either, since that's intended to be priced below the status quo for residents and be attractive to a different set of people who aren't currently in the neighborhood. Really, new housing just changes a neighborhood, as does transit access.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Price is set by supply and demand. Regardless of whether you build "luxury apts" or not, the price of housing near the station is going up.

I think you'd be better off building something and trying to soak up the market a bit.

New transit or new housing changes a neighborhood. Heck, just about anything changes a neighborhood in the long run. The only thing you can count on in city life is change. That's why American-style zoning is so pernicious.

 

[pixelsand8]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

And many Somerville townies who own their houses but don't want to move worry about the influx of T-riding yuppies and increased property taxes more than they value the prospect of a higher payout if/when they decide to sell.

Those T riding yuppies are a real menace to down home, working class neighborhoods. One of them might offer your kid a gluten free muffin or something. Gotta be careful...

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Those T riding yuppies are a real menace to down home, working class neighborhoods. One of them might offer your kid a gluten free muffin or something. Gotta be careful...

And Somerville is completely screwed if a Starbucks opens next to one of the GLX stations. Oh the gentrification!

 

[kjdonovan]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

In hopes of steering this thread back on the rails, here is something slightly on topic but also about T riding yuppies. Look for the report tomorrow: http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news...leased_on_neighborhood_change_stimulated.html

 

[ant8904]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

And Somerville is completely screwed if a Starbucks opens next to one of the GLX stations. Oh the gentrification!

I for one can at least see that fear. Mockery doesn't seem to be an recourse. It's sounds quite reasonable if people value of able to stay in their chosen neighborhood with their neighbors they came to know. Rising values for those type of people would be a treat to that status quo if part of it requires be able to afford the property tax.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I for one can at least see that fear. Mockery doesn't seem to be an recourse. It's sounds quite reasonable if people value of able to stay in their chosen neighborhood with their neighbors they came to know. Rising values for those type of people would be a treat to that status quo if part of it requires be able to afford the property tax.

I guess I understand the fear, but the reality is that ALL neighborhoods change over time. Some faster, some slower, but the all change.

Sometimes it is due to infrastructure. Sometimes it is due to an industry leaving. Sometimes it is just kids growing up and leaving, parents aging and retiring elsewhere, etc.

The only constant is change.

 

[davem]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Idunno, Allston has the green line and the closest starbucks is in Brookline (RIGHT on the border, but still). Perhaps the "keep Allston shitty" movement had something to it… or maybe Somerville just needs to up its quota of puking undergrads, pizza shops, douche bars and head shops.

 

[kjdonovan]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Allston-Brighton has roughly the same population as Somerville (both between 72,000-75,000). However, Allston has BC and BU on either side and houses roughly 10,000 off-campus undergrads. Somerville has little more than 1,000 off-campus undergrads (and Tufts/Lesley kids, mind you). If you were to say that Harvard Ave looks 10x more like a student ghetto than Davis Square, you'd be right. No T stop can change this.

You could make the argument that post-grad 20 somethings also bring a certain economic flavor to the neighborhood, but it just ain't the same thing.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Somerville also has a scattering of MIT and Harvard students.

What that has to do with the presence or absence of Starbucks, I'm not sure.

 

[davem]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Somerville also has a scattering of MIT and Harvard students.

What that has to do with the presence or absence of Starbucks, I'm not sure.

I guess because Starbucks = yuppiefication.

I just brought up the A/B comparison to show you can have the green line running through your community and still be a shithole… I mean a working class community.

 

[Arlington]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Somerville also has a scattering of MIT and Harvard students.

What that has to do with the presence or absence of Starbucks, I'm not sure.

Well, from 15 years ago, there was a rule of thumb for where a Starbucks "should" go, based on what kind of "Third Place" a neighborhood needed/wanted/Supported. (Third Place being a community focal point that was neither home nor work).

Some traditional "Third Places" were nail salons, beauty parlors, and diners, and storefront pizza parlors. Kind of in that same niche, we'd include Church bingo, a Keno parlor, and barber shops.

But in particular, if a neighborhood more than a certain density of nail salons, a neighborhood was believed to have all the Third Places it needed and therefore did not need/want a Starbucks.

This was actually a site-selection criterion that Starbucks used back then (c. 2001 was the last literature I saw). As they've saturated the market and gained wider acceptance, I'm sure they've found themselves "mixing in" rather than "redlining", but it does give some sense that retail options are a source of community, familiarity, and comfort for a neighborhood.

Ergo, a Starbucks or its lack, or hostility toward Starbucks or yearning for it, are roughly litmus tests for whether a neighborhood is "traditional" or "yuppified".

It amuses me to no end that the rare Starbucks in Medford is snuggled close to the safe-haven offered by the Whole Foods on Mystic Valley Parkway. It also gives some sense that there is a yuppie/upscale "pull" for a GLX MVP/Rt16 stop.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The Starbucks in Wilson Square on Somerville Ave is at one of the least gentrified stretches of Somerville Ave between Porter and Union.

Just sayin.

 

[Arlington]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

The Starbucks in Wilson Square on Somerville Ave is at one of the least gentrified stretches of Somerville Ave between Porter and Union.

Just sayin.

One man's "least gentrified" Somerville Ave is another man's "not the Somerville I knew"... this stretch clearly catches commuters (and, <shudder> *bike* commuters) coming from Porter and Davis and other parts of Harvard's northern hinterlands on their way to Oxford St or Park St to Harvard's science labs or Divinity School, or crossing the MBTA tracks to get to Beacon St to their tech jobs in East Cambridge. And, if you're on your way "up" to Porter Sq, its a good place to start your walk or bike.

It ain't "old Somerville" that you see using the on-street bike lanes or the nearby Commonwealth Cross Fit gym. Frankly, no place within a mile of a Rock Climbing Gym can claim to be un-yuppified. That it is basically catty-corner from a storefront tangerine-hued personal training boutique says it is fully-gentrified enough. Oh, and a Hubway station on the triangular central parcel.

Sorry. Crossfit+Hubway+Personal Training+Rock Gym+Patronized Bike Lanes=hipster ground zero=Starbucks.

 

[pixelsand8]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I for one can at least see that fear. Mockery doesn't seem to be an recourse. It's sounds quite reasonable if people value of able to stay in their chosen neighborhood with their neighbors they came to know. Rising values for those type of people would be a treat to that status quo if part of it requires be able to afford the property tax.

It's one thing to be concerned about rising rents and property taxes. It's another thing all together to bitch and whine cause you don't like "the kinds of people" moving into your neighborhood. To an extent they are related but the former is a serious issue that deserves serious consideration by everybody involved. The latter, not so much, and in some way harkens back to some of the worst aspects of our countries urban development history.

There is an article early in this thread where a woman worried West Medford will become too much like Davis Square. She didn't seem to be talking about money, but the fact that Davis was a place to be with things to do. Those who deliberately want to keep their neighborhood a place people don't want to come to because it would inconvenience them, they really shouldn't get a say in this process. I wouldn't call them NIMBY's so much as obstructionists.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Somerville hipsters don't go to Starbucks. They/We go to Diesel, Bloc 11, Sherman, Fortissimo, True Grounds, and the Armory Cafe. Speaking of which, the Diesel/Bloc 11 folks are about to open 'Forge Baking Company' just a stone's throw from Wilson Square.

 

[pixelsand8]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

As far as gentrification goes, I remain unconvinced that the Green Line will do what some people think it will. Davis Square is sometimes mentioned as a comparison but the reason that place is so popular is not just access to Boston but also to Cambridge and all it's destinations - Harvard, Central, Kendall - all big time hot spots for culture, entertainment, employment, etc. The Green Line doesn't really help one get to these spots easily, it just provides easier access to downtown Boston. That might cause some increase in rent due to demand from commuters, but in itself wouldn't make the neighborhood gentrify much. The Blue line and Ashmont/Oak Grove lines of the Red/Orange should show that.

I suppose the difference is that the GLX is closer to where the Camberville academic hipster gentrifying types already live, ergo it will be more desirable as a "cheaper" alternative to the Red Line. At a certain point though, the rents will be high enough that it won't make sense to pay almost as much as Red Line prices to be on the GLX, unless the areas on the GLX become "destinations" in their own right. Maybe places like Magoun, Ball, Gilman can attract higher end establishments and get a reputation as a "quieter" Red Line alternative. We'll see what happens I guess, I'm incredibly curious.

The exception to all this is Union Square. I think it will have no problems gentrifying due to the combination of closer proximity to Boston/Cambridge, large scale development and pure hype. It's already undergone pretty major changes. Anyway, enough rambling, here are some photos around Gilman Square (note hip and expensive "Sarma" in the fourth pic - maybe it's already beginning);