Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Did the Reverands Wall and Rivers get to dip their beaks?
Did the Reverands Wall and Rivers get to dip their beaks?
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
I recall the City of Somerville hinting in the past that there were ongoing conversations about working with the state to fund and build the full community path. At GLX meetings up until now, the project team has been quite clear that their work does not include building the full path, only designing it and ensuring their work does not preclude its completion.
In reality what this means is the retaining walls they are building will provide enough room for the new tracks as well as a "path area" on the western/southern side. As I understand it, the retaining walls would sketch the path but GLX would not provide the paving, lighting, ramp rails, to make it complete.
In some instances this is a distinction without a difference. Emergency egresses, for example, double as the path for the new Lechmere, Washington St., and Gilman Square stops. It would be merely the gaps between these areas that would not be "completed path."
I suspect this announcement will be that the state has agreed to complete the full path from Lowell Street to Northpoint. The Cedar Street location makes thematic sense as it is the present terminus. You get the Governor to say, "In five years you will be able to travel from this point to downtown Boston completely by sustainable, safe means." Great TV visual, given the current construction. Even though it is not technically the same project it gives the viewer a sense of activity.
I recall the City of Somerville hinting in the past that there were ongoing conversations about working with the state to fund and build the full community path. At GLX meetings up until now, the project team has been quite clear that their work does not include building the full path, only designing it and ensuring their work does not preclude its completion.
In reality what this means is the retaining walls they are building will provide enough room for the new tracks as well as a "path area" on the western/southern side. As I understand it, the retaining walls would sketch the path but GLX would not provide the paving, lighting, ramp rails, to make it complete.
In some instances this is a distinction without a difference. Emergency egresses, for example, double as the path for the new Lechmere, Washington St., and Gilman Square stops. It would be merely the gaps between these areas that would not be "completed path."
I suspect this announcement will be that the state has agreed to complete the full path from Lowell Street to Northpoint. The Cedar Street location makes thematic sense as it is the present terminus. You get the Governor to say, "In five years you will be able to travel from this point to downtown Boston completely by sustainable, safe means." Great TV visual, given the current construction. Even though it is not technically the same project it gives the viewer a sense of activity.
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
What exactly is the plan for proceeding past the path's terminus in North Point Park to Boston? Will bike traffic merge onto the Charles River Dam Bridge? Navigating a stretch of the Monsignor O'Brien and Leverett Circle seems like just the sort of thing that would scare away the "interested, but concerned" potential bike commuters that the SCP extension is supposed to attract.
Or will SCP riders be expected to take the ped bridge to Paul Revere Park and eventually get on the Charlestown Bridge?
Either method seems like it would be a chaotic shitshow to me unless I am misunderstanding something.
Don't get me wrong though -- a commitment to extend the SCP to the river would be excellent news.
What exactly is the plan for proceeding past the path's terminus in North Point Park to Boston? Will bike traffic merge onto the Charles River Dam Bridge? Navigating a stretch of the Monsignor O'Brien and Leverett Circle seems like just the sort of thing that would scare away the "interested, but concerned" potential bike commuters that the SCP extension is supposed to attract.
Or will SCP riders be expected to take the ped bridge to Paul Revere Park and eventually get on the Charlestown Bridge?
Either method seems like it would be a chaotic shitshow to me unless I am misunderstanding something.
Don't get me wrong though -- a commitment to extend the SCP to the river would be excellent news.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,599
- Reaction score
- 2,702
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
This seems the best fit for what you'd announce given the time, place, and manner--I hope you are right.
This seems the best fit for what you'd announce given the time, place, and manner--I hope you are right.
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Heh, crossing at the Dam is my preferred method. Traffic is so godawful the cars are usually completely stopped, letting me split lanes with ease!
Levrett Circle is a hair-raising disaster though, and both Nashua St and Martha Rd are in dire need of bike lanes.
Heh, crossing at the Dam is my preferred method. Traffic is so godawful the cars are usually completely stopped, letting me split lanes with ease!
Levrett Circle is a hair-raising disaster though, and both Nashua St and Martha Rd are in dire need of bike lanes.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,599
- Reaction score
- 2,702
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
They've planned (and built the "approaches" for) bike-ped "side spans" hung on both the upstream and downstream sides of today's North Station (rail) draw bridges. They all dead end at the water's edge today, but appear from time to time in concept plans, like this one (where we only see the "upstream" bike-ped drawspan (in orange):
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Yeah. I don't see how this will be more appealing to much of the SCP's catchment area than taking Beacon/Hampshire to the Longfellow. That's not a perfect route by any stretch, but there's a bike lane most of the way, there's relative safety in the huge numbers of cyclists on the road, and you are basically never dealing with more than one lane of traffic in each direction. When Somerville finishes the Beacon St redesign it will get even better even if the redesign consists of little more than a (desperately needed) repave.
I take your point that there's so much traffic on the Dam that you can lane-split easily, but a lot cyclists and potential cyclists will take one look at three lanes of traffic will a minimal shoulder and say forget about it.
I very rarely find myself in Charlestown other than enjoying the scenic view of Sullivan Sq while transferring to the 89 -- which hardly counts. So I'm not that familiar with the Charlestown Br situation. I have gone across the North Bank Bridge, though, which is great, but probably not ideal for handling major bike commuting traffic. And I'm not sure if you can easily get from Paul Revere Park to the Charlestown Bridge inbound without dismounting anyway.
The discussed ped bridge between North Point and Nashua Park would be the holy grail here, but realistically is there any reason to expect that to happen soon?
Yeah. I don't see how this will be more appealing to much of the SCP's catchment area than taking Beacon/Hampshire to the Longfellow. That's not a perfect route by any stretch, but there's a bike lane most of the way, there's relative safety in the huge numbers of cyclists on the road, and you are basically never dealing with more than one lane of traffic in each direction. When Somerville finishes the Beacon St redesign it will get even better even if the redesign consists of little more than a (desperately needed) repave.
I take your point that there's so much traffic on the Dam that you can lane-split easily, but a lot cyclists and potential cyclists will take one look at three lanes of traffic will a minimal shoulder and say forget about it.
I very rarely find myself in Charlestown other than enjoying the scenic view of Sullivan Sq while transferring to the 89 -- which hardly counts. So I'm not that familiar with the Charlestown Br situation. I have gone across the North Bank Bridge, though, which is great, but probably not ideal for handling major bike commuting traffic. And I'm not sure if you can easily get from Paul Revere Park to the Charlestown Bridge inbound without dismounting anyway.
The discussed ped bridge between North Point and Nashua Park would be the holy grail here, but realistically is there any reason to expect that to happen soon?
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,599
- Reaction score
- 2,702
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
We'll certainly learn something tomorrow (even if it is a "no").
But really, between delivering folks to the bike-friendly employment centers of Lechmere/Kendall and delivering others to the "leisure" destinations of the Museum of Science and Esplanade how much more pent up demand is there?
I'm sure there's some "bike-to-the-CBD" demand, but aren't those people brave/skilled enough that for them crossing the Craige Bridge and through Science Park will be a piece of cake?
I want to see that outrigger pedestrian draw bridge built, but really it is as a pedestrian shortcut from North Station to North Point, and not so much that North Station is the natural endpoint of a bike commute.
We'll certainly learn something tomorrow (even if it is a "no").
But really, between delivering folks to the bike-friendly employment centers of Lechmere/Kendall and delivering others to the "leisure" destinations of the Museum of Science and Esplanade how much more pent up demand is there?
I'm sure there's some "bike-to-the-CBD" demand, but aren't those people brave/skilled enough that for them crossing the Craige Bridge and through Science Park will be a piece of cake?
I want to see that outrigger pedestrian draw bridge built, but really it is as a pedestrian shortcut from North Station to North Point, and not so much that North Station is the natural endpoint of a bike commute.
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
I was being somewhat sarcastic with my Craige Bridge comment. It's pretty terrible.
Also, MBTA EXTENSION ACTUALLY HAPPENING WHILE I'M ALIVE!
I was being somewhat sarcastic with my Craige Bridge comment. It's pretty terrible.
The esplanade is a major commuting route, so improving access to/from it is always good. (So would be doing something about the frost heaves...)
Yes. There is really not much you can do about the situation downtown, so either you bike in traffic or walk. The sharrows on Essex did make a measurable difference in how drivers interact though.
Also, MBTA EXTENSION ACTUALLY HAPPENING WHILE I'M ALIVE!
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
This is supposedly mandated by the lawsuit that prompted all of the other mitigation projects for the Big Dig (North Bank Bridge and the GLX). However, I don't see it in the next ten years. There's plenty of public/private partnership opportunities with the developers who'll be building around Spaulding and the Garden. Why build it on the state's dime if you can get a builder to help fund it for you? (Exhibit A: the underpass at Assembly Square.)
I personally use the dam to cross into Boston by bike (can't wait for Lovejoy Wharf to be done!) but bike advocacy groups do not consider that an acceptable crossing.
Even after a pass to Nashua Park is done, where does a cyclist go? If you're following the flow of traffic, you're directed right into Leverett Circle, which to me defeats the whole point of a leisurely crossing into the city!
This is supposedly mandated by the lawsuit that prompted all of the other mitigation projects for the Big Dig (North Bank Bridge and the GLX). However, I don't see it in the next ten years. There's plenty of public/private partnership opportunities with the developers who'll be building around Spaulding and the Garden. Why build it on the state's dime if you can get a builder to help fund it for you? (Exhibit A: the underpass at Assembly Square.)
I personally use the dam to cross into Boston by bike (can't wait for Lovejoy Wharf to be done!) but bike advocacy groups do not consider that an acceptable crossing.
Even after a pass to Nashua Park is done, where does a cyclist go? If you're following the flow of traffic, you're directed right into Leverett Circle, which to me defeats the whole point of a leisurely crossing into the city!
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
I think there's a lot of demand that's deterred by the overall lack of bike infrastructure. For plenty of people, clearly, navigating non-insane city routes like Beacon-to-Hampshire-to-Cambridge/Charles is okay. But for a lot of others, the psychological jump from "not biking" to "biking on city streets during rush hour" is huge. I think a MUP that runs down the spine of Somerville and into Boston would draw a whole different demographic into the fold. A fully built-out SCP would have a very sizable catchment area -- Davis & points north, Magoun, Spring Hill, Winter Hill, Union, East Somerville.
And it's true that even if a ped bridge to Nashua Park is built there are still some problems once in Boston, such as....
It's certainly a challenge, but thinking a little longer-term a lot of the obstacles to bike commuting in Boston will diminish with time. The Connect Historic Boston and Boston Common cycle tracks projects are going to create a few more bike-friendly corridors and as demand for infrastructure increases it will only get easier to muster the political will to continue to build out the network.
I think a bridge-to-Nashua project would have to be paired with some sort of solution for bike traffic on the Boston side. Some sort of bike signalling allowing bikes to go under the green line viaduct onto Martha Rd?
I think there's a lot of demand that's deterred by the overall lack of bike infrastructure. For plenty of people, clearly, navigating non-insane city routes like Beacon-to-Hampshire-to-Cambridge/Charles is okay. But for a lot of others, the psychological jump from "not biking" to "biking on city streets during rush hour" is huge. I think a MUP that runs down the spine of Somerville and into Boston would draw a whole different demographic into the fold. A fully built-out SCP would have a very sizable catchment area -- Davis & points north, Magoun, Spring Hill, Winter Hill, Union, East Somerville.
And it's true that even if a ped bridge to Nashua Park is built there are still some problems once in Boston, such as....
It's certainly a challenge, but thinking a little longer-term a lot of the obstacles to bike commuting in Boston will diminish with time. The Connect Historic Boston and Boston Common cycle tracks projects are going to create a few more bike-friendly corridors and as demand for infrastructure increases it will only get easier to muster the political will to continue to build out the network.
I think a bridge-to-Nashua project would have to be paired with some sort of solution for bike traffic on the Boston side. Some sort of bike signalling allowing bikes to go under the green line viaduct onto Martha Rd?
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
See this site for an idea of how Boston is planning to address this bike corridor in the next 5 years, and the next 30 years: http://maps.cityofboston.gov/bikenetwork/
See this site for an idea of how Boston is planning to address this bike corridor in the next 5 years, and the next 30 years: http://maps.cityofboston.gov/bikenetwork/
fattony
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,098
- Reaction score
- 478
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Absolutely!
It drives me crazy to hear people suggest that there is no current demand to use infrastructure that does not currently exist. Obviously, how could there be demand? You hear it all the time in public transit planning as well and it never makes any sense there either.
That isn't to say that "if you build it, they will come" in every instance. Its a chicken and egg thing. The fact that Kendall, with it's good-to-excellent bicycle access, attracts so many cyclists is all the evidence you need to know that even people in high paying jobs are willing and eager to ride to work. Maybe once upon a time Kendall employed predominantly recent grads and lifelong geeks, but now it is a fully mature business district and bicycle mode share is higher than ever.
For bicycle infrastructure to employment centers of Boston, it is a slam dunk guarantee that if you build it, they will come.
Absolutely!
It drives me crazy to hear people suggest that there is no current demand to use infrastructure that does not currently exist. Obviously, how could there be demand? You hear it all the time in public transit planning as well and it never makes any sense there either.
That isn't to say that "if you build it, they will come" in every instance. Its a chicken and egg thing. The fact that Kendall, with it's good-to-excellent bicycle access, attracts so many cyclists is all the evidence you need to know that even people in high paying jobs are willing and eager to ride to work. Maybe once upon a time Kendall employed predominantly recent grads and lifelong geeks, but now it is a fully mature business district and bicycle mode share is higher than ever.
For bicycle infrastructure to employment centers of Boston, it is a slam dunk guarantee that if you build it, they will come.
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Don't forget the 'new' dam. Its feasible to navigate on a bike, even though its technically prohibited and hard to do politely if there's any pedtraffic. But it beats the alternative by a long shot. Commercial / Atlantic is a great backdoor to downtown, too, because there are wide shoulders and few cross streets.
I used to go from Eastie to Lechmere by bike, and my route would be aquarium station -> atlantic ave -> new damn -> north point bridge - > and then the backstreet under the gilmore bridge to first st.
But yeah, aside from yet another 'personal shortcut' brag, more infrastructure is obviously going to unlock more demand in this case.
Don't forget the 'new' dam. Its feasible to navigate on a bike, even though its technically prohibited and hard to do politely if there's any pedtraffic. But it beats the alternative by a long shot. Commercial / Atlantic is a great backdoor to downtown, too, because there are wide shoulders and few cross streets.
I used to go from Eastie to Lechmere by bike, and my route would be aquarium station -> atlantic ave -> new damn -> north point bridge - > and then the backstreet under the gilmore bridge to first st.
But yeah, aside from yet another 'personal shortcut' brag, more infrastructure is obviously going to unlock more demand in this case.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,599
- Reaction score
- 2,702
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
So the +5 years version is very interesting and "cuts both ways" in that while it will make the CBD a more attractive destination, Boston also will solve some of the "last mile" problems for the SCP...Boston says that by 2019, you'll see "cycle track" on the Washington St Bridge (MA 99) and a dedicated bike lane all in front of the Museum of Science, and also see a dedicated bike path on the Charlestown side of 99 as far north as Sullivan Square.
All will serve to enhance the SCP and answer some of the "where do I go from here" without necessarily needing the SCP to go straight over the Charles via drawbridge to North Station.
So the +5 years version is very interesting and "cuts both ways" in that while it will make the CBD a more attractive destination, Boston also will solve some of the "last mile" problems for the SCP...Boston says that by 2019, you'll see "cycle track" on the Washington St Bridge (MA 99) and a dedicated bike lane all in front of the Museum of Science, and also see a dedicated bike path on the Charlestown side of 99 as far north as Sullivan Square.
All will serve to enhance the SCP and answer some of the "where do I go from here" without necessarily needing the SCP to go straight over the Charles via drawbridge to North Station.
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
The tire facility at 21 Water Street is still standing. But the pile of dirt being stored in front if it has grown, a lot.
The tire facility at 21 Water Street is still standing. But the pile of dirt being stored in front if it has grown, a lot.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,599
- Reaction score
- 2,702
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
DOh! Well, then we're down to:
1) Contractor chosen for Phase 2, or the more likely:
2) Commitment to build the Somerville Community Path
DOh! Well, then we're down to:
1) Contractor chosen for Phase 2, or the more likely:
2) Commitment to build the Somerville Community Path
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
It is, in fact the funding for the community path. http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/mbta/green-line-extension-community-path-funding/
Would someone please explain to me why it is $20 MILLION PER MILE?????
It is, in fact the funding for the community path. http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/mbta/green-line-extension-community-path-funding/
Would someone please explain to me why it is $20 MILLION PER MILE?????