Green Line Reconfiguration

Speaking of cars though - I thought the GLX cars are only going to be enough to serve the GLX and won't actually add any capacity to the system overall. Also - what's going on with the 50 or so GL cars that aren't in service? The T lists 200 or so in its fleet but only 150 in service.

They own 111 Type 7s, the high floor cars built in two groups in 1986-87 and 1997. There is a contract in place to overhaul 86 of the 1986-87 cars with an option to overhaul 20 more (mostly the 1997 cars) for a potential total of 106. The five worst cars with heavy accident damage will be junked. Right now the number of Type 7s that are active is only 80. 31 cars are out of service, many of them in the overhaul program.

They also own 94 Type 8s, the problematic low-floor cars built in 1999-2007. Right now 13 of those cars are out of service long term, waiting for major parts that are hard to find like suspension components, rectifiers, brake resistors.

The present active fleet is 161 cars, of which 146 are required to meet the peak requirement. That is tight, as usually 20% of the fleet is expected to be out of service for inspections and minor to moderate repairs. If 106 Type 7s are fully overhauled and they find enough parts to get the Type 8 fleet back up to 94 cars, the active fleet would rise from 161 to 200.

In addition, they have ordered 24 Type 9 cars to expand the fleet to meet the increased car requirements of GLX, that would push the fleet up to 224 from the present 161. That would be enough equipment to both cover the requirements of the extension and run more three car trains on the B and the D.
 
Yes - by no means meant to suggest you could reconfigure the routes out of the current situation or that this would near the amount of improvement you'd see from improved signaling. Just was thinking on Alon's comment that few - by my calculation 15% - cars are 3 car trains and a lot of capacity is therefore left on the table. Was trying to work within the current constraints of 146 cars and somewhere around 10 trains in the tunnel at any one time.

The electrical issue that Matthew brought up is a much bigger issue another constraint to add in and this pretty much sets the cap pretty low. I still think there's some benefit to turning C trains at Kenmore when the tunnel is full, but the benefit of reallocating is much less.

Short turning the trains won't do anything except force C line riders to get off and squeeze into packed B line trains. It's a recipe for disaster. This could only work if you ran the Green Line more like a standard rapid transit system, say two branches with equal headways and the C was a feeder route. The problem is the Green Line is a mishmash of streetcars and light rail using a tunnel that was designed before modern rapid transit systems were understood.

That's the basic crux of this thread, how do we clean this all up.

Speaking of cars though - I thought the GLX cars are only going to be enough to serve the GLX and won't actually add any capacity to the system overall. Also - what's going on with the 50 or so GL cars that aren't in service? The T lists 200 or so in its fleet but only 150 in service.

Totally possible and given the costs for the project are JUST for the project it would make sense the T is limited to buying just what they need for the extension.

Are those 50 that are out of service the Type 7s that are being refurbished?
 
The GLX Phase 3 (the yard and shops...which probably amount to $500m of the project) is all about expanding the capacity of the core system: it provides a place to store enough cars to relieve the overflowing B and C yards and consistently run 3 car trains on the D and maybe E.

They have ordered a small number of new cars for GLX Phase 2/2A (Brickbottom & Union Sq), but I think this is just to ensure availability (since they barely have anyplace to park them, particularly once Lechmere gets rebuilt inline and without storage loops). The actual order that supplies enough cars to take all of the D to 3-car has yet to be placed, but even so, the yard is the pinch point today.

Phase 4 of the GLX (beyond Brickbottom to Tufts) cannot be operated until there's yard space to store the cars needed to populate that extension, but the real reason the yards are the size and cost they are is to power 3-car ops for all of the D. (And of course, the GLX is being built with the option of extending platforms for 4-car trains, so this dynamic where car storage is the limiting factor isn't going to go away)
 
Since we seem to be transitioning toward discussing the GLX end more than the Allston/Brookline end, should we talk about why the GLX is only going as far as Union Square and Tufts? I get that commuter rail is so bad that West Medford's not a good outer anchor, but why not drag the other branch to Porter? All this is in the realm of the reasonable - it's 2 km and probably 2 stops, so should be doable for $50 million and at current Boston costs is doable for $400 million.

(In the realm of the crazy, it should go all the way to Watertown and Waltham, which have very strong ties to Cambridge and Somerville. I say this as someone who knows a ton of Brandeis grads and Cambridge-area geeks: there's a Greater Cambridge region, consisting of Cambridge itself, Somerville, Medford, Arlington, Watertown, and Waltham. In particular, Watertown should be connected to the Green Line via something vaguely paralleling the 71/73 trolleys and not the 57 bus.)
 
Since we seem to be transitioning toward discussing the GLX end more than the Allston/Brookline end, should we talk about why the GLX is only going as far as Union Square and Tufts? I get that commuter rail is so bad that West Medford's not a good outer anchor, but why not drag the other branch to Porter? All this is in the realm of the reasonable - it's 2 km and probably 2 stops, so should be doable for $50 million and at current Boston costs is doable for $400 million.

(In the realm of the crazy, it should go all the way to Watertown and Waltham, which have very strong ties to Cambridge and Somerville. I say this as someone who knows a ton of Brandeis grads and Cambridge-area geeks: there's a Greater Cambridge region, consisting of Cambridge itself, Somerville, Medford, Arlington, Watertown, and Waltham. In particular, Watertown should be connected to the Green Line via something vaguely paralleling the 71/73 trolleys and not the 57 bus.)

Yes, it's been talked about and I'm a strong advocate of a GLX to Porter as a relief valved for downtown transfers between Red and Green. Would have to sink the GL under the CR for the actual Porter Station, build a cavern, tie it into the existing mezzanine, update elevator work etc. Would be worth sinking the CR track bed as part of the project and get some air rights going over the ROW between Beacon Street and Porter.

To go farther would require an additional portal somewhere (around Walden Street) probably. Potentially wipe out the Sherman Street grade-crossing and maybe a low-profile elevated stretch through the Mall area and across the parkway, down the Fresh Pond path until returning to earth after the Water Treatment Plant.
 
..why not drag the other branch to Porter? All this is in the realm of the reasonable - it's 2 km and probably 2 stops, so should be doable for $50 million and at current Boston costs is doable for $400 million.

(In the realm of the crazy, it should go all the way to Watertown and Waltham, which have very strong ties to Cambridge and Somerville.

You are right. Lots of us would like to see a combined CR/GL station at the US 20 Rotary on the Waltham/Weston line, which could also be a bus/circulator hub. Fitchburg line could then run express between 128 <-> Porter, while the GL handles stops at
- Union (current terminus)
- Kent St (new, "Harvard Divinity" & Central Somerville)
- Porter (RL connection)
- Sherman St (new, West Cambridge)
- Alewife (RL connection)
- Belmont Center (GL instead of existing CR)
- Waverly (GL instead of existing CR, Trolleybus connection)
- Beaver St (new & great TOD location)
- (Waltham downtown is tricky due to single-track rock cut)
- Brandeis
- Rt 128 @ US 20

Run as the D or the E, it'd be a runaway hit, like Washington's Red Line.
 
Since we seem to be transitioning toward discussing the GLX end more than the Allston/Brookline end, should we talk about why the GLX is only going as far as Union Square and Tufts? I get that commuter rail is so bad that West Medford's not a good outer anchor, but why not drag the other branch to Porter? All this is in the realm of the reasonable - it's 2 km and probably 2 stops, so should be doable for $50 million and at current Boston costs is doable for $400 million.

How would it fit? It looks like the RoW narrows considerably after Union. Looking at the property lines in Google Maps (not the greatest source of information I know) it narrows from approximately 80 feet before the Prospect and Weber st bridges to about 50 feet, with some buildings directly abutting the RoW.

If you wanted to widen the RoW, you might end up taking out, not only two of the only supermarkets in Somerville city limits, but also all of the businesses on the track side of Somerville Ave (Artisan's Asylum, Greentown Labs, Brooklyn Boulders, the shopping center closer to Porter). I doubt Somervillians would be super supportive of this push.
 
How would it fit? It looks like the RoW narrows considerably after Union. Looking at the property lines in Google Maps (not the greatest source of information I know) it narrows from approximately 80 feet before the Prospect and Weber st bridges to about 50 feet, with some buildings directly abutting the RoW.

If you wanted to widen the RoW, you might end up taking out, not only two of the only supermarkets in Somerville city limits, but also all of the businesses on the track side of Somerville Ave (Artisan's Asylum, Greentown Labs, Brooklyn Boulders, the shopping center closer to Porter). I doubt Somervillians would be super supportive of this push.

This is a 4-track ROW. In the olden days, there'd be two through lines (which remain) and then two lines on each side for serving local freight customers that abutted the tracks. That's what you have here. Yes, it is tight, but it isn't impossible.

Yes, there'd probably be some takings. Near Sherman, the buildings you take for the station may turn out to be the buildings you take for clearance anyway. The parcels you'd get would be ripe and prime for re-sale as TOD parcels compared to the stuff that's there.

And Somerville after Davis Sq "gets" that transit transforms the neighborhood for the better, and there's pretty much a citywide consensus that more rail transit is a good thing.
 
You are right. Lots of us would like to see a combined CR/GL station at the US 20 Rotary on the Waltham/Weston line, which could also be a bus/circulator hub. Fitchburg line could then run express between 128 <-> Porter, while the GL handles stops at
- Union (current terminus)
- Kent St (new, "Harvard Divinity" & Central Somerville)
- Porter (RL connection)
- Sherman St (new, West Cambridge)
- Alewife (RL connection)
- Belmont Center (GL instead of existing CR)
- Waverly (GL instead of existing CR, Trolleybus connection)
- Beaver St (new & great TOD location)
- (Waltham downtown is tricky due to single-track rock cut)
- Brandeis
- Rt 128 @ US 20

Run as the D or the E, it'd be a runaway hit, like Washington's Red Line.

While I always liked this plan, I don't think rapid transit will ever get through Belmont on the Fitchburg line. DMU the inner Fitchburg. That's likely the only solution to increase service levels there.

Reactivating the Watertown Line to the Square (and reactivating the old A-Line yard for storage) makes the most sense to me - assuming that the town can piece the ROW back together.

I like it something like this:

  • Phase 1
  • Stations: Conway, Wilson Square, Porter Square
  • Shift Fitchburg line tracks and widen the Washington Street bridge.
  • At Wilson Square, incline the Fitchburg tracks down several feet.
  • Run Green Line tracks alongside the Fitchburg tracks to Wilson Square. Sink Green tracks underneath the Fitchburg around Beacon Street with the Green tunnel underpinning the Fitchburg trackbed.
  • Conway station just west of the Park Street grade-crossing at Conway Park.
  • Porter station on a level beneath the Commuter Rail with transfer to Red.

    Phase 2
  • Stations: Danehy, Fresh Pond, Strawberry Hill, Mount Auburn, East Watertown, Watertown Mall
  • Shift Fitchburg tracks up to the junction at Fresh Pond Mall.
  • Continue the tunnel beneath the Fitchburg line out of Porter to the west, emerging on the south side of the ROW around the Walden Street overpass.
  • Place Danehy station just west of the Sherman Street grade crossing. Provide access to Danehy Park from the station.
  • At the junction, follow the Watertown Branch to the south. Elevate the tracks upon entering the Fresh Pond Mall parking lot. Run elevated over the ROW across the Fresh Pond Parkway and the Fresh Pond Tudor Park until after the water treatment plant driveway and return the tracks to the grade separated ROW.
  • Place elevated Fresh Pond station astride the Parkway with access to both the Fresh Pond Mall and the Fresh Pond reservation.
  • Continue along ROW to Arlington Street in Watertown.
  • Place Strawberry Hill station at Huron Ave overpass.
  • Place Mount Auburn Station at the Mount Auburn Street overpass with access from Mount Auburn and Holworthy Streets.
  • Either elevate, underpass or grade cross the square created by Arlington Street, Nichols Ave, Crawford Street and Coolidge Hill Road. Place East Watertown Stop at the western side of that intersection, access to the square and the Watertown Greenway.
  • Place Watertown Mall station along the Watertown Greenway directly northwest and adjacent to the mall.

    Phase 3 (hinges upon the city of Watertown consolidating the properties on the path of the ROW)
  • Stations: Arsenal, Watertown Square, Watertown Yard
  • Run alongside the Watertown Greenway until Taylor Street.
  • Place Arsenal Stop at School Street crossing with access to Arsenal Street and the Arsenal Center for the Arts complex.
  • At Mount Auburn Street street run through Watertown Square and across the bridge to Watertown Yard. Place Watertown Square stop between Taylor and Mount Auburn streets. Place Watertown Yard stop off of Galen Street in the yard’s entrance.

    Potentially add in infill near the Market Basket if redevelopment builds along the stretch between Union Square station and Conway station, connect Church Street across the ROW and place a "West Union" station (or "Lincoln Park", or "Argenziano" or whatever name...) serving both Lincoln Park and the Market Basket.


Beyond Watertown Sq there is some potential to bring it to Waltham Common - again assuming the ROW is put back together, but it's long and winding, with lots of grade-crossings.
 
I really question reactivating the Watertown Branch by way of Fresh Pond. Historically this was a lightly used branch passenger wise (obviously still had some freight use up until 5 years ago or about). It has a very circuitous route to get to Boston and if you look at the ridership of the bus lines they are all a straight shot to the Red Line (71,72,73 to Harvard, 70,70A to Central). Building a transit line that takes you to the Red Line via Alewife seems counter to where people want to be going.

The old MTA plan for the area was to extend the Red Line from Harvard along the river (where Greenough Blvd was eventually built) to somewhere around the Arsenal (Arlington St and Coolidge Ave) with a High Speed Trolley (like Mattapan) running up to Arlington via Fresh Pond and Alewife. Even this seems like a random alignment.

This isn't like Somerville where the Green Line ends at your door step. I've sketched out different ideas for years of extending different lines out that way and even the plans that cost the least (a new "A" branch via North Beacon St for example) aren't really worth it in terms of price per rider.

Then you have to take into account that much of the ROW has been developed along Arsenal St and even into Waltham.

What this all means is that reactivation is going to be very expensive, requiring a higher land acquisition cost than most proposed extensions, and require a more direct route along existing bus routes to attract the riders needed to justify the cost. IF it can justify the cost.

Also as Busses stated all Waltham needs is some DMU service and it's fine (maybe reconfiguring the tracks/station downtown to avoid traffic back ups). This means that expanding rapid transit via Green Line isn't a priority or even much of a need for them. That leaves Watertown to stick it out alone and unless a new mayor steps up and makes rapid transit a priority (which I doubt will happen) then any transit use of the Watertown Branch will be just a dream.
 
^ Yup. Really the priority should be a Union - Porter GLX. Anything beyond that is far-future dreaming territory.
 
The Green Line can have grade crossings.

Using the inner Fitchburg Line between Porter and Waltham isn't a good idea. The Watertown branch has way more stuff located next to the track - compare Watertown Square with Belmont. So the Green Line should use the branch, and the Fitchburg Line should continue serving the route it currently serves. Forget express runs, too; Waltham and Brandeis are the primary traffic generators given better organization and mildly better electronics, and not the low-density suburbs beyond Waltham. If fast trains for Fitchburg itself are so important, cut out Silver Hill and Hastings before you start cutting stations in areas where people live.
 
The Green Line can have grade crossings.

Using the inner Fitchburg Line between Porter and Waltham isn't a good idea. The Watertown branch has way more stuff located next to the track - compare Watertown Square with Belmont. So the Green Line should use the branch, and the Fitchburg Line should continue serving the route it currently serves. Forget express runs, too; Waltham and Brandeis are the primary traffic generators given better organization and mildly better electronics, and not the low-density suburbs beyond Waltham. If fast trains for Fitchburg itself are so important, cut out Silver Hill and Hastings before you start cutting stations in areas where people live.

Not sure who you're responding to here.

Green Line can absolutely have grade-crossings but some grade-crossings are best eliminated (in my opinion Fresh Pond Parkway is one of those...)

As for Fitchburg, no one is suggesting express runs (although MBCR does run expresses that skip Brandeis and Waltham, and the Concord stops, South Acton and Littleton are large generators of ridership). What there should be is a frequent inner-128 'MU service with some infill stops in Waltham.
 
This is a 4-track ROW. In the olden days, there'd be two through lines (which remain) and then two lines on each side for serving local freight customers that abutted the tracks. That's what you have here. Yes, it is tight, but it isn't impossible.

Ok, sure it can fit four tracks, but can it fit 4 tracks and the necessary equipment for the catenary? What about an infill station? I mean, if you get rid of the infill station, it'd be hard to sell this to Somerville as an improvement, it'd just be another conduit for people coming from Alewife to get to downtown.

And Somerville after Davis Sq "gets" that transit transforms the neighborhood for the better, and there's pretty much a citywide consensus that more rail transit is a good thing.

Maybe its just because I'm young/naive/new-ish to Somerville, but I was under the impression that the Davis Square of the 1980's was pretty dumpy and the red line breathed new life into it? I mean, sure they aren't great mixed-use buildings abutting the line, but they're hardly run down.

Also, by adding the connection to Alewife, it seems less like a project to improve Somerville T access, and more of a "Lets give the people who drive from Alewife another way to downtown" project.

sEUfVHY.jpg

Coverage for that part of Somerville is looking pretty good to me.
 
Additional coverage connecting Porter to Union is actually an ancillary benefit to a GLX to Porter. The primary benefit is providing flank relief to the Red Line and Park Street by getting riders whose destinations are in the North Station/Haymarket/Government Center areas off of the Red Line before hitting the crush ridership points between Central and Park. It's a very useful load balancing mechanism that will help the entire system function more smoothly.

There is no Alewife connection, just a Porter.

As an aside, those circular "ten minute walks" can be misleading because they assume as the crow flies travel, when in reality residents are navigating street grids that aren't laid out to provide quick access to the railroad.
 
Ok, sure it can fit four tracks, but can it fit 4 tracks and the necessary equipment for the catenary? What about an infill station? I mean, if you get rid of the infill station, it'd be hard to sell this to Somerville as an improvement, it'd just be another conduit for people coming from Alewife to get to downtown.

If people parking at Alewife need to get to North Station so badly then just build a CR platform and be done with it.


sEUfVHY.jpg

Coverage for that part of Somerville is looking pretty good to me.

This is kind of a terrible map. It doesn't help that the coverage bubble around Union Sq is misaligned. As Busses said this is just as the crow flies and not how people actually walk.

GLX to Porter might look good on paper but I doubt the ridership would be there unless they proposed some new development along Somerville Ave that would lead to increased traffic. The CR is a straight shot form Porter to North Station and bus coverage is good so anyone needed to get from Porter (or beyond) is already served.

Spend the money on the Red-Blue connector, it helps more people.
 
If people parking at Alewife need to get to North Station so badly then just build a CR platform and be done with it.




This is kind of a terrible map. It doesn't help that the coverage bubble around Union Sq is misaligned. As Busses said this is just as the crow flies and not how people actually walk.

A lot of them are off-center. I think they tried to weight the circles so heavily travelled corridors - like Prospect Street for example - are properly represented. But the map does a poor job of it in my opinion.

GLX to Porter might look good on paper but I doubt the ridership would be there unless they proposed some new development along Somerville Ave that would lead to increased traffic. The CR is a straight shot form Porter to North Station and bus coverage is good so anyone needed to get from Porter (or beyond) is already served.

Spend the money on the Red-Blue connector, it helps more people.

While I agree that Red-Blue should be the highest priority for rapid transit expansion, I think you're underestimating the utility of GLX-Porter.

For expediency, I'm going to repost F-Line's tome on the matter. He's better at exposition than I am anyway.

F-Line to Dudley said:
Think of it this way: you walk into Harvard station at 8:00am bound for Haymarket, North Station, or Science Park. Which is the easier trip?

-- Elbow-to-elbow on the Red Line 4 stops to Park, then a long platform dwell to the stairs, then waiting for a trolley that doesn't loop at GC, then that elbow-to-elbow trip 2-4 stops on Green?
-- Grabbing an outbound seat on an empty Red train 1 stop to Porter, grabbing an empty seat on a Green Line train starting its run, 4-6 stops to your destination.

Arguably, passenger loads could even make that more hassle-free to GC too.



Now, look at the growth on the Alewife end of Red and consider these constituencies:

-- Exploding development at Alewife and perpetual overfull parking lots.
-- Lots of riders streaming into Alewife for bus routes.
-- Arlington residents who take an unpleasant 77 or 79 trip inbound to catch Red.
-- The poor saps downwind at Harvard and Central whose trains are getting fuller earlier because of all the Alewife-end growth.

How much easier is it going to be for all of these people to divert loads for:

-- 77 riders who transfer at Porter who can now get to the downtown Green Line with 1 transfer and 1 fewer transfer than before, and get a seat to boot. East Arlington riders will even stay on Green to Boylston, Arlington, Copley, and Prudential/Back Bay rather than do the straighter 2-transfer route because of this convenience.
-- Alewife boarders who'd rather transfer 2 stops inbound instead of going all the way to Park in order to avoid the crowds who'd normally be looming over their seat after Porter.
-- Fatigued bus riders who've already had a long trip to get to Alewife who will gladly take the less crowded transfer or 1 fewer transfer to get to anywhere on Green from Lechmere-Prudential/BBY.
-- Reverse commutes from downtown to the employment centers at Alewife. Red may be pretty easy in the contraflow direction, but the Park St. transfer is still horrifying at rush. Many will gladly stay on an E train and plant their butts on a seat right at Park rather than fight through the crowds streaming up the stairs.
-- ALL OF THE ABOVE when Red is borked with delays. The alt route and sending more run-as-directeds up to Porter is big relief and big system redundancy. And way better than hoping you get lucky with a Fitchburg Line schedule for the freebie between NS and Porter. Subway riders do not typically have the Fitchburg departures/arrivals memorized, so if Red's stranded it usually takes an in-station announcement at Porter and a crowd squinting at the Fitchburg schedule board in the lobby to know if they've got a non-bus or non-wait diversion.


I think the load-dispersing motivations of the extension are underreported. Maybe rightfully so because it is such a key neighborhood builder and that's the main selling point. But you can see why this is one of the few extensions other than Red-Blue and Seaport-Back Bay that both sharply increases the ridership and adds all-new riders while providing substantial radial circulation relief. And since it's much less expensive than those two very invasive subway digs desperation for downtown relief can easily rocket it to the top of the list as something low-hanging fruit that they can grab-and-go without too much financial pain and put through a study-design-build process faster than a subway dig. Something I am sure STEP is ready to promote.
 
I'll take a wait-and-see attitude. Like I said development along Somerville Ave might explode after Union Sq opens and if ridership along the 83 and 87 bus routes support and extension then all the better.

It might be a wiser choice in the short term to make Porter CR a free transfer for Red Line and bus riders. That solves the transfer at Park problem right there.
 
GLX to Porter might look good on paper but I doubt the ridership would be there unless they proposed some new development along Somerville Ave that would lead to increased traffic. The CR is a straight shot form Porter to North Station and bus coverage is good so anyone needed to get from Porter (or beyond) is already served.

Spend the money on the Red-Blue connector, it helps more people.

I kind of agree - except it was dumb to not just extend the green to porter right off the bat. I imagine it will/would cost more money in studies to make it happen then it would as part of the original glx package.

I'd be interested to see what the math is on such an extension. It looks so good on a map...
 
I kind of agree - except it was dumb to not just extend the green to porter right off the bat. I imagine it will/would cost more money in studies to make it happen then it would as part of the original glx package.

I'd be interested to see what the math is on such an extension. It looks so good on a map...

As far as extensions go, it's pretty low-hanging fruit. If the eventual plan is to sink the CR trackbed a few feet to accommodate decking of the ROW from Wilson Square to Porter you can bet that transit advocates (STEP - whose advocacy was key to GLX getting planned and funded) will be clamoring for a GLX to be a part of it.

I'd be skeptical that just making the Red-Fitchburg transfer free would really do much of anything. People aren't going to wait around or time a trip for a CR transfer. People would change their commute if it was a matter of a very frequent Green transfer.
 

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