Green Line Type 10 Procurement

Arlington said:
I saw a tweet saying 100 Type 10s were procured for $810, million with prototypes starting to be delivered in 2026 is there actually official news on this?
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I believe that is all the news we have at the moment. As we get closer to first delivery we might get some more news.
 
I think that they'll look like THIS now. :)
New redesigned Type 10 trolley for the Green Line..jpg
 
Jahvon09 said:
I think that they'll look like THIS now. :)
new-redesigned-type-10-trolley-for-the-green-line-jpg.43044
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That already looks dated imo as far as modern lrv’s go.

I imagine something kinda like this when I think of modern lrv’s, but the one above kinda looks like a type 9 with low floors.
extra-long-trolley-proposed-for-the-mbta-jpg.15871


I imagine theyre doing this on purpose? The one directly above is a caf trainset as well. They make great looking trainsets. It seems theyre going for the mbta green line “look” for the type 10, but should they? If were replacing the entire fleet should we go with something thats going to look dated in 5 years? Its obviously not all about looks but why go out of their way to make it look like a slightly reworked type 9, when were starting from scratch and can have anything.
 
stick n move said:
I imagine theyre doing this on purpose? The one directly above is a caf trainset as well. They make great looking trainsets. It seems theyre going for the mbta green line “look” for the type 10, but should they? If were replacing the entire fleet should we go with something thats going to look dated in 5 years? Its obviously not all about looks but why go out of their way to make it look like a slightly reworked type 9, when were starting from scratch and can have anything.
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Because we can't have "anything". We can have anything that fits the infrastructure, and some designs don't. (The Boeings' front doors were unusable in MUNI's tunnels because the ends of the cars curved away from the platforms so as to fit in the T's tunnels, for one example of why pure off the shelf isn't available.) It's also possible that there are relevant regulatory differences (the T10s will have to interact with road traffic). Or any number of other operational or economic reasons that (justifiably) come before aesthetic considerations. (Though some basic consistency on paint schemes would be nice...at least these things aren't teal...)
 
I think the reasons why we don’t end up with the European style windows were discussed up thread. Those tiny windows contribute a lot to the change in appearance.
 
RandomWalk said:
I think the reasons why we don’t end up with the European style windows were discussed up thread. Those tiny windows contribute a lot to the change in appearance.
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I wonder how many Walpolean window kicking asshats the people of Seville have to subsidize. Do they kick out LRV windows there for funzies or do they have a society that understands the concept of an ‘own goal’ when you take a commonly shared public amenity out of commission? Stats would be hard to come by but I think things have to be built differently here for… reasons.
 
RandomWalk said:
I think the reasons why we don’t end up with the European style windows were discussed up thread. Those tiny windows contribute a lot to the change in appearance.
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Do you have a link to the previous discussion? I'm having trouble finding and I am curious to read it.
 
RandomWalk said:
I think the reasons why we don’t end up with the European style windows were discussed up thread. Those tiny windows contribute a lot to the change in appearance.
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Yea the windows are definitely what make it look like the other green line trains. Id be interested to read why we have to use them as well.
 
So it looks like there's STILL a final design to be revealed yet. :unsure:
 
My search-fu is failing me and I cannot find the reference now. FTA recommends following FRA guidelines for windows, which need to withstand a .22 bullet and a cinder block.
 
RandomWalk said:
My search-fu is failing me and I cannot find the reference now. FTA recommends following FRA guidelines for windows, which need to withstand a .22 bullet and a cinder block.
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Kansas City's CAF Urbos 3 cars have window sizes comparable to the Euro orders of the Urbos, so feddy regs overreach probably doesn't explain it.
800px-KC_Streetcar_(26813012241).jpg

As the T10's are Urbos 3-derived it would reason that they're going to appear similar. But much like the Type 9 renders changed mid-order (at a later stage than where we are now), I doubt we're seeing anything close to the final look.
 
stick n move said:
That already looks dated imo as far as modern lrv’s go.

I imagine something kinda like this when I think of modern lrv’s, but the one above kinda looks like a type 9 with low floors.
extra-long-trolley-proposed-for-the-mbta-jpg.15871


I imagine theyre doing this on purpose? The one directly above is a caf trainset as well. They make great looking trainsets. It seems theyre going for the mbta green line “look” for the type 10, but should they? If were replacing the entire fleet should we go with something thats going to look dated in 5 years? Its obviously not all about looks but why go out of their way to make it look like a slightly reworked type 9, when were starting from scratch and can have anything.
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In the pic of the one that I posted, that probably is a cheaper design. You know the T. They're going to spend the least amount possible to weasel their way out of stuff! Buying Chinese-made stuff just doesn't seem to cut it. Why do you think that they went with CRRC for the new RL & OL trains? It's because they were offering the cheapest deal. I guess that trains aren't made in America any more.
 
Jahvon09 said:
Buying Chinese-made stuff just doesn't seem to cut it.
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CAF is a Spanish company, that already successfully built and delivered the Type-9s. Acknowledging that the CRRC order has been somewhat fraught, it isn't really related to the low cost bid. The issues are more logistical and political. And while maybe that's a risk of doing business with China in general, I'm not sure we can conclude that the product is inherently inferior. Maybe it just requires better MBTA side project management. Just as an example, Apple seems to do quite well contracting out manufacturing to Chinese companies. Regardless, as I said, it's not an issue on this procurement. These cars will be built at the CAF plant in New York.
 
HenryAlan said:
CAF is a Spanish company, that already successfully built and delivered the Type-9s. Acknowledging that the CRRC order has been somewhat fraught, it isn't really related to the low cost bid. The issues are more logistical and political. And while maybe that's a risk of doing business with China in general, I'm not sure we can conclude that the product is inherently inferior. Maybe it just requires better MBTA side project management. Just as an example, Apple seems to do quite well contracting out manufacturing to Chinese companies. Regardless, as I said, it's not an issue on this procurement. These cars will be built at the CAF plant in New York.
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The only issue that CAF has somewhat of a rep for being snakebit on is on-time delivery. The New York plant was somewhat tardy fulfilling the Type 9 order. They were ridiculously tardy delivering Amtrak's full Viewliner II car order. But they've always had a rep for delivering high-quality product and have had a clean run of it with Quality Assurance and warranty support.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The only issue that CAF has somewhat of a rep for being snakebit on is on-time delivery. The New York plant was somewhat tardy fulfilling the Type 9 order. They were ridiculously tardy delivering Amtrak's full Viewliner II car order. But they've always had a rep for delivering high-quality product and have had a clean run of it with Quality Assurance and warranty support.
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Yeah, I think that less "bends" in them might be a good idea, also.
 
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