Hook Wharf | 400 Atlantic Ave | Downtown

kmp1284 said:
The filing describes it as ‘select service’ so think Marriott Courtyard or Hilton Garden Inn which would be disappointing for such a location but the luxury market is probably saturated with the Langham and Newbury coming back online in 21 and the Raffles in 22 or 23.
Click to expand...
No way a Courtyard or Garden Inn could justify the development costs here, it has to be 4-5 star, something similar to the Envoy or another Marriott Autograph collection maybe.
 
Vivanna said:
No way a Courtyard or Garden Inn could justify the development costs here, it has to be 4-5 star, something similar to the Envoy or another Marriott Autograph collection maybe.
Click to expand...

I don't think it'd be a Courtyard or Garden Inn, but I could easily see it being one of the new(ish) or trendier select service brands - something like AC, Moxy, Aloft, Caption, Cambria, etc. Courtyard and Garden Inn are more traditional "select service" brands, but there are plenty that are more upmarket and could command the rates to justify the cost of development here. Really, all it takes to become "select service" is offering limited/no on-property dining (I'm assuming J Hook would operate independently), and limited/no banquet or conference space. Cutting that stuff out might preclude it from being branded as a JW Marriott, but it doesn't mean that the next step is Courtyard.
 
Lrfox said:
I don't think it'd be a Courtyard or Garden Inn, but I could easily see it being one of the new(ish) or trendier select service brands - something like AC, Moxy, Aloft, Caption, Cambria, etc. Courtyard and Garden Inn are more traditional "select service" brands, but there are plenty that are more upmarket and could command the rates to justify the cost of development here. Really, all it takes to become "select service" is offering limited/no on-property dining (I'm assuming J Hook would operate independently), and limited/no banquet or conference space. Cutting that stuff out might preclude it from being branded as a JW Marriott, but it doesn't mean that the next step is Courtyard.
Click to expand...
And I'm not sure how limited this will really be. In addition to the James Hooks restaurant on the first level, the proposal includes a two-level ballroom on the second floor with meeting rooms on both the second and third floors, as well as a bar/lounge with a private dining area that encompasses the entire fourth floor and a bar and restaurant with outdoor deck that encompasses the entire 25th floor. This is not going to be a Courtyard or a Garden Inn.
 
cjbski said:
J.W. Marriott would be ideal here.
Click to expand...

I recall that the Long Wharf Marriott was scheduled to be converted to a JW but it didn't happen for some reason. I imagine full blown 5 star hotels would require extensive pool and spa amenities as well as the meeting rooms and restaurants, not sure if they have the room (or desire) here to dedicate to that.
 
I never cease to be amazed by how much people know and care about hotel brands on this here website...

No judgement; it's actually fascinating to me. I know and care about the details of plenty of things in life that most people never give a second thought to. Hotel brands are one thing that I never give a second thought to, and a great part of aB is finding people who really do care about stuff like this.
 
Last edited:
Vivanna said:
No way a Courtyard or Garden Inn could justify the development costs here, it has to be 4-5 star, something similar to the Envoy or another Marriott Autograph collection maybe.
Click to expand...

The PNF specified ‘select service’ and I used those as two of the most recognizable chains for that class of hotel.

Lrfox said:
I don't think it'd be a Courtyard or Garden Inn, but I could easily see it being one of the new(ish) or trendier select service brands - something like AC, Moxy, Aloft, Caption, Cambria, etc. Courtyard and Garden Inn are more traditional "select service" brands, but there are plenty that are more upmarket and could command the rates to justify the cost of development here. Really, all it takes to become "select service" is offering limited/no on-property dining (I'm assuming J Hook would operate independently), and limited/no banquet or conference space. Cutting that stuff out might preclude it from being branded as a JW Marriott, but it doesn't mean that the next step is Courtyard.
Click to expand...

It wasn’t intended to be a comprehensive list but the chains you mentioned aren’t all that different once you get beyond the more contemporary/pseudo-upmarket veneer.
 
I walk by the One City Center building in Durham alot that is all glass and rises 295ft tall. Its gorgeous. This deign is thicker, and taller.. so it will look even better than the one in Durham. I compare the two because they remind me of eachother.
 
JumboBuc said:
I never cease to be amazed by how much people know and care about hotel brands on this here website...

No judgement; it's actually fascinating to me. I know and care about the details of plenty of things in life that most people never give a second thought to. Hotel brands are one thing that I never give a second thought to, and a great part of aB is finding people who really do care about stuff like this.
Click to expand...

If you think hotel talk is fascinating, pop on over the the Logan flights thread in "Transit and Infrastructure" and you can read all about airlines you've never heard of, flying to places you didn't know existed, on airplane equipment that sounds like math equations. I like both hotels and airplanes. :)
 
JumboBuc said:
I never cease to be amazed by how much people know and care about hotel brands on this here website...

No judgement; it's actually fascinating to me. I know and care about the details of plenty of things in life that most people never give a second thought to. Hotel brands are one thing that I never give a second thought to, and a great part of aB is finding people who really do care about stuff like this.
Click to expand...

Some of us have these brands as clients, and understanding the hotel brand landscape in detail (especially the differentiation points as the brands see them) is important if you want to keep them as clients!
 
BosDevelop said:
This would be a great spot for the city's first JW Marriott. Upscale but not Four Seasons/Mandarin upscale.
Click to expand...

cjbski said:
J.W. Marriott would be ideal here.
Click to expand...

Nice call on JW.. that would just work so well here!

shawn said:
Some of us have these brands as clients, and understanding the hotel brand landscape in detail (especially the differentiation points as the brands see them) is important if you want to keep them as clients!
Click to expand...

Some of us also (used) to travel quite extensively for work or otherwise and have stayed in everything from the highly questionable, never again, no-name hole-in-the-wall places in the outskirts of France to some of the best out there. I'm always interested in hotel talk :).
 
It's good. I agree that space is awkward. But appropriate for the area. It's 8/10
 
shmessy said:
I will never understand that gap. Good news is I imagine there will probably be a way to fix that in the future. It's just weird.
Click to expand...
From the presentation, the red line appears to denote the perimeter of the Hook property line, and the thin blue sliver by the Moakley Bridge represents waters of the United States. The United States owns the airspace over its territorial waters.

If so, then the Federal government would need to grant an easement for any structure bridging this sliver of the harbor, and built in the 'airspace' between the Hook property and Moakley Bridge.
 
Ok, I could live with this. Maybe it looks a little too much like an office tower, but it's inoffensive, fairly handsome, and I like the overall shape. I think it should blend in pretty well here - whether people think that's a good thing or bad thing would be subjective. Going back to hotel branding, this would certainly look like something more indicative of a JW than a Courtyard.
 
My only complaint: it will block my favorite view of International Place.
 
Listen to these responses. "My only complaint...?" Talk about faint praise. My gosh...

This, my friends, is a prominent parcel. On the water, viewed from a park, near an historical bridge, not far from the granite piers that describe Boston history, to say nothing of a multi-generation Boston family that has carved a place in our city's waterfront/civic history. And this is what we, what that family, gets? From a Boston firm? This is what the city proposes? How does this proposal relate in anyway to any of the above details?

This modest offering is better suited for 495.

I've been checking in here for many years and maybe I'm just growing weary of the mediocrity that passes as architecture in this city. This proposal is not architecture. Let's call it what it is - this is real estate development by people who know how to maneuver the system and get a yes. I appreciate how hard it is to do that, to move the ball, how hard it is to accomplish anything of merit, but let's at least make the attempt.

Forgive me my venting. I suspect this lands on deaf ears. We are so lucky to be a city in the northeast that enjoys the blessings we have, blessings that allow us to continue to grow the way we have this past decade. This was not always the case. Some of us remember that. And how are we respecting our present day blessings? Proposals like this...

Talent does what it can, genius does what it must. Alas, neither seems to have been involved with this parcel. We continue to lower the bar.

Fire the architect. Today. Fire Brain Golden. Yesterday. Or our blessings will be diminished...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top