I-90 Interchange Improvement Project & West Station | Allston

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GreenLineEnthusiast said:
Why the opposition to express tracks? Simply because that would be less trains that serve the station?
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That's my take on the issue, but there might also be an element of space utilization. Express tracks mean a four track ROW -- less space for apartments and labs.
 
HenryAlan said:
That's my take on the issue, but there might also be an element of space utilization. Express tracks mean a four track ROW -- less space for apartments and labs.
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I think it's both. The problem for the neighborhood now is that West-East Rail puts them up against powerful political interests in Western Mass who have a huge amount of influence with Governors. MassDOT just can't let go of the fact that the land is there right next to the line, is close to South Station, and is historically a railyard. Once it's built in, they lose it forever.

Express tracks also undermine the perpetual lie that "West Station" is a grand hub on par with North and South. If trains can (and will) bypass it, it loses the cachet. They need to drop this silliness now that they've won the battle to build it and call the station "Allston", and then the MBTA should change "Boston Landing" to "Brighton", and then we'll have station names that are actually useful. Boston already has a "West Station" for intercity trains, it's called Back Bay.
 
Equilibria said:
I think it's both. The problem for the neighborhood now is that West-East Rail puts them up against powerful political interests in Western Mass who have a huge amount of influence with Governors. MassDOT just can't let go of the fact that the land is there right next to the line, is close to South Station, and is historically a railyard. Once it's built in, they lose it forever.

Express tracks also undermine the perpetual lie that "West Station" is a grand hub on par with North and South. If trains can (and will) bypass it, it loses the cachet. They need to drop this silliness now that they've won the battle to build it and call the station "Allston", and then the MBTA should change "Boston Landing" to "Brighton", and then we'll have station names that are actually useful. Boston already has a "West Station" for intercity trains, it's called Back Bay.
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I agree with the sentiment except Boston Landing. I think the developer who paid for the station has the right to have the name they want on the station.
 
BosMaineiac said:
To be fair to the healey admin, the north draw project is crucial to north side expansion. That’s not to say the price tag isn’t a hard pill to swallow, but at least they and the congressional representation have worked hard to get that funding secured. With or without a NSRL, that is needed
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NSRL means only replacing/referring one draw, not the three planned. A much cheaper option
 
Equilibria said:
I think it's both. The problem for the neighborhood now is that West-East Rail puts them up against powerful political interests in Western Mass who have a huge amount of influence with Governors. MassDOT just can't let go of the fact that the land is there right next to the line, is close to South Station, and is historically a railyard. Once it's built in, they lose it forever.

Express tracks also undermine the perpetual lie that "West Station" is a grand hub on par with North and South. If trains can (and will) bypass it, it loses the cachet. They need to drop this silliness now that they've won the battle to build it and call the station "Allston", and then the MBTA should change "Boston Landing" to "Brighton", and then we'll have station names that are actually useful. Boston already has a "West Station" for intercity trains, it's called Back Bay.
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Express tracks are unnecessary for what, one possibly, two tph?Amtrak trains blast through numerous stations on the NEC every day. West station should be no different. Especially when politicians get their heads out of their posteriors and realize that LRT is the only solution for GJ
 
Tallguy said:
Express tracks are unnecessary for what, one possibly, two tph?Amtrak trains blast through numerous stations on the NEC every day. West station should be no different. Especially when politicians get their heads out of their posteriors and realize that LRT is the only solution for GJ
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I think they are talking about much more than 2 tph for express at regional rail frequencies. It will not just be Amtrak, it will also be express Reginal Rail. That corridor is going to get very busy, and there will be times there is a train in the station and another that needs to simultaneously skip stop.
 
HenryAlan said:
That's my take on the issue, but there might also be an element of space utilization. Express tracks mean a four track ROW -- less space for apartments and labs.
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-2 tracks nets you...what, 25 feet in space. It's not much at all, and certainly not enough to build anything on. Frankly, if the station continues to be designed with giant busways that hardly any feasible routes are going to use...that's the space-waster that should be targeted if they're trying to pack the neighborhood together denser. The ground-level revenue tracks and platforms aren't anywhere close to as wide as the sloppy layout on-top.

The main opposition to express tracks is definitely crying about any trains skipping the station. But...well, those 8-10 Amtrak RT's are not going to be stopping there in any universe and Worcester expresses probably shouldn't stop there most of the time if they care about making good end-to-end time. As said, this is not Back Bay Station in heft. So that's a lot of trains, making express tracks prudent enough if they're not taking up much space. The layout of the express tracks needs to change from the last set of renders, because the number of conflicts with the station track crossovers was stupid...but the general existence of them is smart.


As for the layover...didn't Tibbits-Nutt already confirm a few months ago that that was being zeroed out? I agree that has no need to exist anymore now that they have the Widett Circle property, and was a piggish waste of space that needed to go to heal the over-wide chasm between the Allston and BU sides.
 
Tallguy said:
... Especially when politicians get their heads out of their posteriors and realize that LRT is the only solution for GJ
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The Globe article linked above does have this line:
The new station is planned for the southern edge of the train yard, sandwiched between Boston University and Harvard’s extensive holdings in Allston. It is envisioned with bus connections to Harvard Square and the Longwood Medical Area, a platform over the tracks for development, and a light-rail connection to Kendall Square.
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Not sure where they got that from though, given I haven't seen anywhere where the state had endorsed light rail on the grand junction
 
devnull said:
The Globe article linked above does have this line:


Not sure where they got that from though, given I haven't seen anywhere where the state had endorsed light rail on the grand junction
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Copypasta from the ongoing Grand Junction Feasibility Study's misgendering of Urban Rail as "light rail". They're not referring to the Green Line, unfortunately.

And no, the state has not endorsed it. That study is a Cambridge Redevelopment Authority joint.
 
Sad they’re saving space for antiquitated layover yards and not for an actually useful light rail connection from BU to Harvard Square.

But do we even think this project is going to happen anytime soon? Hopefully next time it becomes viable with federal funding there’s more ambition when it comes to transit and less when it comes to gigantic feeder roads.
 
JeffDowntown said:
I think they are talking about much more than 2 tph for express at regional rail frequencies. It will not just be Amtrak, it will also be express Reginal Rail. That corridor is going to get very busy, and there will be times there is a train in the station and another that needs to simultaneously skip stop.
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RR Expresses should be stopping at Allston anyway. One of the major points of the stop is to detangle downtown by diverting pax to Harvard and Kendall.
 
Tallguy said:
RR Expresses should be stopping at Allston anyway. One of the major points of the stop is to detangle downtown by diverting pax to Harvard and Kendall.
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It might make sense to have some Commuter Rail express trains stop there, but not Amtrak trains (especially the Lake Shore Limited).
 
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nortor said:
Sad they’re saving space for antiquitated layover yards and not for an actually useful light rail connection from BU to Harvard Square.

But do we even think this project is going to happen anytime soon? Hopefully next time it becomes viable with federal funding there’s more ambition when it comes to transit and less when it comes to gigantic feeder roads.
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Almost all of the money is there, they were estimating that they needed 500 million from the federal government and got 350 million.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
As for the layover...didn't Tibbits-Nutt already confirm a few months ago that that was being zeroed out? I agree that has no need to exist anymore now that they have the Widett Circle property, and was a piggish waste of space that needed to go to heal the over-wide chasm between the Allston and BU sides.
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She did, but Amtrak is now stepping in to say that they would like to use that space for layovers.
 
JeffDowntown said:
I think they are talking about much more than 2 tph for express at regional rail frequencies. It will not just be Amtrak, it will also be express Reginal Rail. That corridor is going to get very busy, and there will be times there is a train in the station and another that needs to simultaneously skip stop.
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The T is only planning for 5tph, including Amtrak. Transitmatters calls for 4tph peak and 2tph off from Worcester and an additional 4tph from Framingham. Three possible stop patterns. 8-9tph is not that busy. 9 tph is about 7 minutes per.
 
cubbe8 said:
Almost all of the money is there, they were estimating that they needed 500 million from the federal government and got 350 million.
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No, MassDOT's RCN application included a budget that included $200M in MEGA funding and $500M in RCN funding. They got $355M of that $700M, so there's a $345M hole that needs to be filled, assuming that nothing else changes.
 
This was distributed on Monday. The attached drawing is at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E3han8xzB5vlxJeYaZzO9dp1mCrJmCVZ/view?usp=sharing

Please see the attached message from: Monica Tibbits-Nutt, Secretary & CEO of MassDOT, Jonathan Gulliver, Highway Administrator, Meredith Slesinger, Rail & Transit Administrator

To members of the legislature, municipal leaders, key stakeholders, and other interested parties:

We wanted to update you on some important decisions that have recently been made regarding the environmental permit filings for the Allston Multimodal Project. The Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact Report (SDEIR) and Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS), which we plan to release in December 2025, will include layover tracks for MBTA/Compass Rail trains, two express tracks for the Worcester Mainline, and a larger buffer path. A diagram of the track layout is attached.

The MBTA and MassDOT believe this decision is necessary to achieve the growth in rail service we all desire and Massachusetts needs. West-East rail service and delivering regional rail on the Worcester Main Line requires protecting our rail assets to enable critical service expansion. This expansion will provide greater geographic equity, spur economic development, and increase transit-oriented housing production, while reducing transportation’s climate footprint.

While we believe this is the best option for the Commonwealth; it's important to remember that the SDEIR/DEIS submission is an early milestone, not the final one. We need to keep this project moving forward in order to meet our very tight permitting schedule and we welcome your comments as we move through that process.

In order to meet the SDEIR/DEIS submission schedule, including our December 2025 target release, MassDOT will need to continue working with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) and start exchanging project information, including the rail elements detailed above, with FHWA early in December 2024. Over the coming year, MassDOT will meet with its partners on the project and this process.

As the permitting process continues over the next year and beyond, should further analysis and/or planning determine that some of the current design elements are not required to support future rail needs, MassDOT/MBTA would be open to exploring potential design changes.

Once FHWA and MassDOT have completed their work on the 2025 submittal, the SDEIR/DEIS will move to permitting. This will include a robust public process and there will be a number of opportunities for interested parties to provide comments, input, and further refinement of the project. Public comment periods will be well-publicized by permitting authorities and will additionally be published on MassDOT’s website. Additionally, you can sign up for project updates via the Allston Multimodal Project website at https://www.mass.gov/allston-multimodal-project.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
As for the layover...didn't Tibbits-Nutt already confirm a few months ago that that was being zeroed out? I agree that has no need to exist anymore now that they have the Widett Circle property, and was a piggish waste of space that needed to go to heal the over-wide chasm between the Allston and BU sides.
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In April she said the layover would not be built in Allston, but now she has changed her mind and says it is necessary.

 
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