I-90 Interchange Improvement Project & West Station | Allston

[Jeremi]

Not really. It sucks, but what they are really doing is trying to achieve it through the political means they have available to them. Better to have something, than nothing. It's like the piecemeal implementation of bike lanes. The people in charge of that plan absolutely know what is truly required. I've been to a good amount of the local meetings for Cambridge, Somerville, and Medford and it's very clear that the teams putting this all together are dedicated to its resolution but they are REQUIRED to play the long game. A street here or there over time creates a connected network. Look at the voting public's backlash to the bike lane overhaul on major roads. It doesn't matter that the data shows that businesses are better off and that mobility flow through the network increases overall, the majority of voters want to drive and are upset that bike lanes have made that harder in the short term. SO now you have to ease an angry public opinion into the unwanted but necessary solution instead of implementing it wholesale only for its supporters in power to be thrown out. It's pretty awful and demoralizing, but it's necessary. You need the political alliance of people who could come round to the solution but currently are against your position for enduring change.

All of these people are local transit officials. Big city DOTs is where all the pedestrian scale thinking occurs. State transit is all gas no brake. Have a look at the 27/9 interchange in Natick, the Bowker Overpass disaster, this entire stretch of the Pike, and the streets proposed in the design of this very project.

 

[Jeremi]

There is no small amount of literature about the throughput-obsessed thinking that guides most state transit thinking. The recent book “Killed By a Traffic Engineer” (written by a traffic engineer!) dives deep into the problem.

 

[KCasiglio]

I think it can be true at the same time that:

A) MassDOT has come a LONG way in the past 10 years on this.

B) There are many incredibly dedicated people at all levels of MassDOT that make safety and sustainability pillars of their work.

C) There remains a culture of following public opinion (or their conception of what public opinion is as informed by being a statewide office) rather than trying to lead public opinion through effective communication/education/marketing/however you want to frame it. Consider whether MassDOT would have come close to the recommendations BTD put out when they assessed Western Ave in Allston just around the corner from this project.

 

[Equilibria]

All of these people are local transit officials. Big city DOTs is where all the pedestrian scale thinking occurs. State transit is all gas no brake. Have a look at the 27/9 interchange in Natick, the Bowker Overpass disaster, this entire stretch of the Pike, and the streets proposed in the design of this very project.

I understand the ideological nature of what you're saying, but State DOTs are REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to pursue Vision Zero and report on their progress. It's slander to suggest that MassDOT isn't doing that, however much you and the authors of the thinkpieces and books you read think it isn't working.

I think it can be true at the same time that:

A) MassDOT has come a LONG way in the past 10 years on this.

B) There are many incredibly dedicated people at all levels of MassDOT that make safety and sustainability pillars of their work.

C) There remains a culture of following public opinion (or their conception of what public opinion is as informed by being a statewide office) rather than trying to lead public opinion through effective communication/education/marketing/however you want to frame it. Consider whether MassDOT would have come close to the recommendations BTD put out when they assessed Western Ave in Allston just around the corner from this project.

I agree with this in broad strokes, but there are also very different roles for these agencies. MassDOT's job is to protect all road users, but it is also to make sure people and goods move through the state efficiently. The City's job (under this particular mayor) is to promote car-free living and livable urban spaces. Urban planning is not MassDOT's job, it's Boston's, and that's why they should work together on projects like this.

 

[jbray]

All of these people are local transit officials. Big city DOTs is where all the pedestrian scale thinking occurs. State transit is all gas no brake. Have a look at the 27/9 interchange in Natick, the Bowker Overpass disaster, this entire stretch of the Pike, and the streets proposed in the design of this very project.

Then let's get bigger than that. Monica Tibbits-Nutt, the current Secretary of Transportation has time and time again argued for these principles from center running bus lanes, separated bike infrastructure, road narrowing, daylighting, tight turn radii, angle of approach, bus and train frequency, electrification, congestion pricing, tolling, etc., etc., etc. and is constantly stymied by the politics including the pretty public sidelining that happened from Governor Healey over the conversation around funds for the MBTA coming from drivers. Another example is Kathy Hochul and the congestion pricing debacle where she took it off the table leading into an election where it was unpopular only for her to reintroduce it following the election, albeit at a compromise pricing because it remains unpopular. Or Pete Buttigieg whose role at the national level has been implementation of vision zero on a national level and getting those projects funded as part of the infrastructure bill. It is disingenuous to say that the conversation isn't changing.

 

[Equilibria]

And I’m sorry, it is laughably untrue that “every DOT in the country,” even our own MassDOT is “incredibly serious about pursuing zero fatalities on our roads.” They make daily design decisions that they know will kill people and they do it in the name of traffic throughput.

I'm sorry, but saying that the people who work at MassDOT knowingly kill people in the name of traffic throughput is disgusting. You are effectively accusing them of manslaughter. "Killed by a Traffic Engineer" may be the figurative title of a book, but you're way, way over the line.

 

[Jeremi]

I'm sorry, but saying that the people who work at MassDOT knowingly kill people in the name of traffic throughput is disgusting. You are effectively accusing them of manslaughter. "Killed by a Traffic Engineer" may be the figurative title of a book, but you're way, way over the line.

I accuse them directly.

 

[Jeremi]

I understand the ideological nature of what you're saying, but State DOTs are REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to pursue Vision Zero and report on their progress. It's slander to suggest that MassDOT isn't doing that, however much you and the authors of the thinkpieces and books you read think it isn't working.


I agree with this in broad strokes, but there are also very different roles for these agencies. MassDOT's job is to protect all road users, but it is also to make sure people and goods move through the state efficiently. The City's job (under this particular mayor) is to promote car-free living and livable urban spaces. Urban planning is not MassDOT's job, it's Boston's, and that's why they should work together on projects like this.

I understand the ideological nature of what you're saying, but State DOTs are REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to pursue Vision Zero and report on their progress. It's slander to suggest that MassDOT isn't doing that, however much you and the authors of the thinkpieces and books you read think it isn't working.


I agree with this in broad strokes, but there are also very different roles for these agencies. MassDOT's job is to protect all road users, but it is also to make sure people and goods move through the state efficiently. The City's job (under this particular mayor) is to promote car-free living and livable urban spaces. Urban planning is not MassDOT's job, it's Boston's, and that's why they should work together on projects like this.

It’s also a complete fantasy to claim that any state agency is required to comply with some kind of nationwide Vision Zero standard in any way with teeth. Nobody is getting their highway funds cut off.