Which is fine, provided they have a car and their shift doesn't collide with Peak getting on or off the Cape. It does sort of beg the question as to why you would live in Fall River and work on the Cape.
If You Were God/Goddess | Transit & Infrastructure Sandbox
- Thread starter George_Apley
- Start date
Which is fine, provided they have a car and their shift doesn't collide with Peak getting on or off the Cape. It does sort of beg the question as to why you would live in Fall River and work on the Cape.
There was apparently a study a few years ago for part of this. This study is looking into running trains back and forth from Middleborough to the cape.
bigeman312
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2012
- Messages
- 2,259
- Reaction score
- 2,065
Fixing up the track might seem expensive, but it's often the smarter long-term play. Trains can carry way more people and can be more efficient when they're running right. The dedicated bus right of way you're talking about? That might not stay so "dedicated." Cars have a way of sneaking in, and then you've got congestion and "BRT creep." So even if buses seem like the cheaper fix, you might end up paying for it in other ways.
Plus, the buses would, best case scenario, still be mixing with traffic between Middleborough and Boston, or at the very least, one would need to transfer, which would discourage mass transit usage.
In addition to the points raised by @bigeman312, honestly I could write a whole blog post on this (and maybe I will). But here's a question: where are you going to get hundreds of electric buses? AFAIK, manufacturing is ramping up, but it's still not like there are a huge supply of electric buses sitting around.
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2010
- Messages
- 9,196
- Reaction score
- 9,000
There's mission-critical rail freight on the Cape that has to be accommodated. The trash train from Yarmouth transfer station to the Covanta SEMASS trash-to-energy power plant in Rochester is how most of the Cape's municipal garbage gets handled. That's worth several hundred garbage trucks not pounding the shit out of the bridges. It's a very lucrative contract for Mass Coastal RR, and a vital public service provided by the state.
Plus the Cape Rail dinner train is a profitable local tourist institution.
Bottom-line: those tracks make money outright and provide crucial services for the region. To make better use of the ROW you keep making steady investments in better track like MassDOT has been doing, not throw it away by paving it over for a much narrower usage case.
bigeman312
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2012
- Messages
- 2,259
- Reaction score
- 2,065
In addition to everything mentioned, there is a significant cost to construction. It’s not like rails = expensive and pavement = free.
The closest parallel we have in New England is CT Fastrak, which was built at a cost of $567 million (in 2015 dollars, equivalent to $742 million today), for a 9.4 mile system which cost $17.5 million per year to operate (equivalent to $22.9 million today).
What you are proposing is a 43.5 mile project. Ignoring the obvious added costs associated with the Canal bridge, that’s 4.6x as long as the $742 million project parallel. So, for simplicity sake, let’s call it a $3.4 billion dollar project. Now, this proposal may not end up at exactly that amount, and we can quibble about the exact dollar amount, but @beck4537 is proposing a massive investment under the false premise that it would be a cheaper undertaking. It would likely be be more expensive than South Coast Rail, a project that is commonly cited as an expensive boondoggle, and the second most expensive mass transit project in Massachusetts this millenium.
It may not even be penny wise and pound foolish, but rather penny foolish and pound foolish.
The closest parallel we have in New England is CT Fastrak, which was built at a cost of $567 million (in 2015 dollars, equivalent to $742 million today), for a 9.4 mile system which cost $17.5 million per year to operate (equivalent to $22.9 million today).
What you are proposing is a 43.5 mile project. Ignoring the obvious added costs associated with the Canal bridge, that’s 4.6x as long as the $742 million project parallel. So, for simplicity sake, let’s call it a $3.4 billion dollar project. Now, this proposal may not end up at exactly that amount, and we can quibble about the exact dollar amount, but @beck4537 is proposing a massive investment under the false premise that it would be a cheaper undertaking. It would likely be be more expensive than South Coast Rail, a project that is commonly cited as an expensive boondoggle, and the second most expensive mass transit project in Massachusetts this millenium.
It may not even be penny wise and pound foolish, but rather penny foolish and pound foolish.
DominusNovus
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,065
- Reaction score
- 170
in the spirit of a sandbox thread: the entire interstate system (and rt 3 down to the canal) in Massachusetts has been turned into a big-dig style network of tunnels.
What do you do with the land freed up?
What do you do with the land freed up?
Charlie_mta
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2006
- Messages
- 4,334
- Reaction score
- 5,971
High speed rail lines, obviously!
Well, if you could bury the highways, here's like 30 acres, next to the biggest transit hub in New England, that could use a street grid and housing.
Haha - go ahead @king_vibe -this is an alley-oop for you to dunk on uggo government planning - how many lanes across is this section of town?
Also - was there ever a land-swap proposed for a better developable site for the power plant - don't see any updates since 2022
Labs and apartments could be coming to the southern edge of downtown Boston - The Boston Globe
A pair of Black-owned firms will build lab space and apartments on the long-planned site in Chinatown.
www.bostonglobe.com
Vicinity Steam Plant | Kneeland Street | Chinatown
I expect this will roll into the Parcel 25 thread at some point, but that thread was (very appropriately) locked by the mods, so we can start fresh for now...
archboston.com
Last edited:
Why is Peebles still allowed to bid on RFPs?Haha - go ahead @king_vibe -this is an alley-oop for you to dunk on uggo government planning - how many lanes across is this section of town?
Also - was there ever a land-swap proposed for a better developable site for the power plant - don't see any updates since 2022
Labs and apartments could be coming to the southern edge of downtown Boston - The Boston Globe
A pair of Black-owned firms will build lab space and apartments on the long-planned site in Chinatown.Vicinity Steam Plant | Kneeland Street | Chinatown
I expect this will roll into the Parcel 25 thread at some point, but that thread was (very appropriately) locked by the mods, so we can start fresh for now...archboston.com
Teban54
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2021
- Messages
- 1,004
- Reaction score
- 2,577
A one-minute, not-serious proposal that's partially inspired by my comment on expanding rapid transit boundaries:
Extend the GL D branch from Riverside to Wellesley College via Wellesley Farms, Wellesley Hills and Wellesley Square. This allows Regional Rail to Framingham/Worcester to skip these stations and speed up their trips.
Or is a future Blue Line extension (via tunnel beneath Worcester Line to also serve the Newton stations) a better idea?
Extend the GL D branch from Riverside to Wellesley College via Wellesley Farms, Wellesley Hills and Wellesley Square. This allows Regional Rail to Framingham/Worcester to skip these stations and speed up their trips.
Or is a future Blue Line extension (via tunnel beneath Worcester Line to also serve the Newton stations) a better idea?
Would you even need to do it as a tunnel? Could it be an El like the JFK AirTrain to Jamaica? I realize building an Elevated in Newton sounds insane, but in this case it's no worse than what's already there. The B&A/Pike RoW is sunken below the surrounding neighborhoods, so it wouldn't seem sky-high for the actual users.
Teban54
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2021
- Messages
- 1,004
- Reaction score
- 2,577
That's a great idea!
I wasn't sure if the Pike's median would be enough to support an El (and taking away lanes is likely a political non-starter), but the JFK AirTrain seems to not require too much extra space than what the Pike has, though some extra space will still be needed.
At the point where the JFK AirTrain turns to Jamaica, the road median that supports the El structure is about 15.5 ft wide, while the current Pike median is about 11 ft. So some narrowing of emergency lanes may be needed, and I'm not sure how feasible that is.
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 4,558
- Reaction score
- 3,187
Charlie_mta
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2006
- Messages
- 4,334
- Reaction score
- 5,971
I personally love elevated rail done like this. I think it looks great.
HenryAlan
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,900
- Reaction score
- 3,750
I do, too. There is a lot of it in L.A., where they seem to have no issue with moving ROWs from grade level to underground to elevated, and back, and it all looks cool and futuristic, especially some of the really high up elevated structures.
I was trying to think of other examples where there's rail built 35ish feet above the highway with road bridges passing perpendicularly underneath. Do they have that in LA (I'm just not that familiar with their system)? Would love to see other examples of similar solutions.
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 4,558
- Reaction score
- 3,187
When ever did the adjectives cool and futuristic apply to Newton?
