Kenmore Square North (WHOOP) | 533-541 Commonwealth Ave | Fenway

Scott said:
Save the building if reasonably possible, and stop with the Citgo sign idolatry. Sight lines for marathon runners, seriously?
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The line about marathon runners is mine, so I'm coming back in to say "no, not really seriously." More of a statement of fact than idolatry to note that on that one day in April, thousands of runners will see that sign from way down Beacon and will start kicking to the finish way too soon. My official take on the sign is that I like it more than I don't because it's unique within Boston and it's a useful geographic marker for, yes, marathon runners among many many others. That said, I wouldn't actually raise a finger to try saving/preserving the sign or any of the sightlines to it because, as pointed out ad nauseam below my initial comment, it's just an advertisement. I understand, but do not agree with, the blindly sentimental crowd, just as I understand, but do not agree with, the blindly unsentimental and/or woke crowd. It's OK not to have a strong opinion on this.

On the subject of strong opinions, do people like that corner building mostly because of the patina on the west side, or is it the whole package? I note that the ground floor as currently constituted is a net negative to the street level, with that long blankness between the convenience store and the post office next door.
 
ErnieAdams said:
On the subject of strong opinions, do people like that corner building mostly because of the patina on the west side, or is it the whole package? I note that the ground floor as currently constituted is a net negative to the street level, with that long blankness between the convenience store and the post office next door.
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I think it's a gorgeous building that has likely had its street level bastardized, as is so often the case when and older building survives the 1960s-80s. Fix the street, cleanup and renovate the rest. Couldn't ask for a better anchor on that corner.
 
ErnieAdams said:
On the subject of strong opinions, do people like that corner building mostly because of the patina on the west side, or is it the whole package? I note that the ground floor as currently constituted is a net negative to the street level, with that long blankness between the convenience store and the post office next door.
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Everything about it is perfect.

The ground level was destroyed but can be fixed.
 
Again, I don't think it's anything special but I have no confidence in the collective crop of developers/architects dominant in this cycle to replace it with something of equal or greater beauty. No use trading down.
 
The ground floor doesn't seem to have been changed too much, actually. The City Convenience entry seems to have replaced an apartment.

kenmore_1922.jpg
 
Justin7 said:
I think it's a gorgeous building that has likely had its street level bastardized, as is so often the case when and older building survives the 1960s-80s. Fix the street, cleanup and renovate the rest. Couldn't ask for a better anchor on that corner.
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Looked it up. It dates from 1889.
 
Interesting, it looks like the green line used to be street running and not separated from traffic at that point in time.
 
tysmith95 said:
Interesting, it looks like the green line used to be street running and not separated from traffic at that point in time.
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Probably not appropriate to call those trolleys the Green Line. They are just part of the extensive surface trolley network that covered the city before any subway tunnels were built.

The density of the trolley traffic that converged on Tremont Street along the Common completely stalled traffic there. That led to the construction of the first tunnel with Park and Boylston stations. A lot of the support for the subway came from the wealth Brahmins who lived in the elegant row houses facing the Common, Colonnade Row. The trolley traffic was so bad the Brahmins could not get their carriages up to their houses. They supported the subway not to make the trolleys run better, but to get them out of sight (and out of their way).
 
Java King said:
Is anyone old enough to remember the Narcissus Dance Club? I went a few times when I first moved here back in 1987 and I was in my 20's. I guess it's the Burtucci's now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD2Ncl8G2Y0
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Yes, I remember it well! Never went inside, as I favored the Rat, but used to enjoy watching the fights and unruly crowd spilling out after closing. There were a couple of other clubs associated with that building, all under one ownership. Collectively known as the Kenmore Club, there were also Lipstick and one other besides Narcissus.

JeffDowntown said:
Probably not appropriate to call those trolleys the Green Line. They are just part of the extensive surface trolley network that covered the city before any subway tunnels were built.
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As presented in the picture, you could sort of consider it the Green Line. Based on the picture's label, that shot is from 1922. If you look closely on Comm Ave., just past the funeral parlor, you can see the old portal. Kenmore under hadn't yet been built, but what is now known as Hynes was in service by this time. G/L trolleys emerged just before the square, to then head in their respective directions after hitting a surface stop. What I did not realize, though, is that Beacon St., east of the square, had trolleys.
 
Corner building facade should *(must) remain as either a building or a facadectomy; (preferably) a building.

Citgo sign should then, be moved to the corner building itself while preserving it to the closest traditional alignment with Brookline Ave and Beacon Street.... the rest of the block should be razed for a 490'~560' hotel, retail/entertainment, condominium complex.

This is the best way to plan a modest expansion of Boston's core. Kenmore is going to be getting some height and density with the 2 highrise hotels, and Fenway Center currently planned. This is the most proper place to put a crown, and help Kenmore achieve its proper greatness.
 
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HenryAlan said:
As presented in the picture, you could sort of consider it the Green Line. Based on the picture's label, that shot is from 1922. If you look closely on Comm Ave., just past the funeral parlor, you can see the old portal. Kenmore under hadn't yet been built, but what is now known as Hynes was in service by this time. G/L trolleys emerged just before the square, to then head in their respective directions after hitting a surface stop. What I did not realize, though, is that Beacon St., east of the square, had trolleys.
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OK, I'll agree with you on this observation. I thought it was older, since all I noted was all the trolleys feeding in from Beacon. I did not notice the Commonwealth portal (I did not see any trolley traffic coming from Commonwealth direction).
 
JeffDowntown said:
OK, I'll agree with you on this observation. I thought it was older, since all I noted was all the trolleys feeding in from Beacon. I did not notice the Commonwealth portal (I did not see any trolley traffic coming from Commonwealth direction).
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The caption on that picture says it was "circa 1915"

Though from the wikipedia entry I think it might have been taken in 1914 when that portal opened. I don't see any tracks leading to the portal and it looks like there might actually be poles in front of it blocking it, maybe before its opening?
 
odurandina said:
Citgo sign should then, be moved to the corner building itself while preserving it to the closest traditional alignment with Brookline Ave and Beacon Street.... the rest of the block should be razed for a 490'~560' hotel, retail/entertainment, condominium complex.
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How would you propose that the enormous CITGO sign be moved?
 
Do you think it grew there organically?
 
Oh crap, this fits with the LOI.

LOI said:
[C]onstruction of a new, approximately 165,000 square foot, 8-story building located where Buildings 2-4 currently exist, which will include a mix of commercial retail/restaurant uses on the ground floor and mezzanine levels, with office use above, together with below grade parking and uses accessory thereto
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R5N5l15.jpg


I would fight someone to keep that from happening.
 
lazy lazy lazy. Lets hope this is a late April Fools Day joke.

cca
 
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