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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

TheRifleman said:
What does BID actually do that my own city, state, and other taxes don't cover?
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Your taxes go to pay equally for services across the city, regardless of where you live or frequent. At least with BIDs, contributors generally know how the tax is being spent and who is benefiting from it.

Should potential BID areas be getting these services anyway? Probably. Should they be getting these services at the cost of providing services to other areas? In a total economic sense? Definitely. In a democratic sense? Maybe. In an equitable sense? Certainly not.
 
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

TheRifleman said:
But to create another program called BID which is another tax on top of the taxes you already pay is illegal.
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Then the people who pay the tax, seeing as how they're the ones who imposed it on themselves, should probably round themselves up and head off the jail.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

underground said:
Then the people who pay the tax, seeing as how they're the ones who imposed it on themselves, should probably round themselves up and head off the jail.
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Its the people that developed the program. I'm sure it wasn't the business leaders who thought of BID. More like the political leaders
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

But to create another program called BID which is another tax on top of the taxes you already pay is illegal. This called Mafia Tax.
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I heart Rifleman absolutisms.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

underground said:
As much as Shirley harps on her ridiculous height fixations, she's usually spot on about funding issues and the BRA. I agree with her here, and agreed with what she wrote about the Greenway Conservancy.
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Uground -- as usual Shirley's foul ball is out of the park

Yes in an "Atlas Shrugged" world there would be no special deals -- but we live in a world -- not just a city or state or country were there are special deals -- everywhere

In some places you "pay to play" on top of the table -- in other places the deals are more subtle and "sotto voce"

get used to it

What we should care is that the Liberty(s), Fidelity(s) and New Balances(s) that are investing their own capital in their own buildings -- build nice buildings which will still be considered nice in 20, 30, 50, or ideally 100 years later

The stuff bult on spec or even as design and build for a lessse (e.g. Vertex) -- are built to be sold -- few of those developments stay in the hands of the builder for more than a few years (IP is probably the major exception)

In constrast -- The stuff built with a company's prestige and name attached to it -- those are the ones that are the opportunities for major positive contributions to the community (e.g. original Filene's, old JH, new JH, and of course the Chadwick Leadworks)

When we get one of these companies to make a major commitment -- we should support the development and the commitment by the company -- not be a Harpy or a Sirly Shirly
 
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

How many buildings were built in Boston in the past 50 years without some kind of tax or financial incentive. Starting with the Pru and it's chapter 121A package, also known as the Prudential Bill, I would bet most if not all. Prudential threatened to leave Boston if it didn't get giant tax breaks to build the Pru Center. Kevin White used Chapter 121A extensively during his administration. Maybe the Old John Hancock would still be the tallest building in Boston.
 
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

whighlander said:
Yes in an "Atlas Shrugged" world there would be no special deals -- but we live in a world -- not just a city or state or country were there are special deals -- everywhere
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It must be Freaky Friday, because I'm usually the one telling you that.

Just so we're all clear, I'm not against tax breaks as a policy tool per se, just this beyond insane instance.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

BostonObserver said:
How many buildings were built in Boston in the past 50 years without some kind of tax or financial incentive. Starting with the Pru and it's chapter 121A package, also known as the Prudential Bill, I would bet most if not all. Prudential threatened to leave Boston if it didn't get giant tax breaks to build the Pru Center. Kevin White used Chapter 121A extensively during his administration. Maybe the Old John Hancock would still be the tallest building in Boston.
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Bos -- Wrongo Bongo on the Pru

Pru never was here in any major way -- they were enticed to build their Northeastern regional HQ -- aka the Pru Center -- with the aid of the financing deal and of course the Turnpike enabling the redevelopment of the old rail yards

I think that set the stage for most if not all of the large-scale developments being done using some "creative financing" such as TIF or some other deal

Part of this is the heritage of Boston as both the largest city and the capital city of the Commonwealth -- this is quite rare amongst the 50 states
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Wrongo wrongo. I never said they were here in a major way.

from Planning the CIty Upon A Hill by Lawrence W. Kennedy p171

Boston needed an investment and construction boost and the Prudential could do the trick. In the late 1950s, the Prudential Insurance Company determined to combine a northeast regional office with a major investment project in a downtown area. It chose Boston and announced plans to develop the site of the Boston and Albany Railroad yards....., but the city's outrageously high tax rate blocked a final commitment. Prudential executives and the Hynes administration reached an informal agreement by developing a special tax formula for the site and project; otherwise it would not have been undertaken.
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

BostonObserver said:
Wrongo wrongo. I never said they were here in a major way.

from Planning the CIty Upon A Hill by Lawrence W. Kennedy p171
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Yea -- that's essentially what I said -- the -- Pru came here due to the opportunity for a major real estate project -- that's where your prudential premiums went and of course it was leavened with the tax deal. At first the fairly large northeast regional office was located in the tower -- that's the reason the sign got there. Later the company moved the office (significantly downsizing it) but kept the real estate and the sign stayed -- still alter they sold the buildings in the complex and now I doubt that there's even a secretary in the building -- but the sign has gotten grandfathered
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

whighlander said:
The stuff bult on spec or even as design and build for a lessse (e.g. Vertex) -- are built to be sold -- few of those developments stay in the hands of the builder for more than a few years (IP is probably the major exception)
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You quoted a good example of good & bad development.

I don't know the history how IP was built but you have investors for the long-term that believe in the city of Boston is a good investment so instead of building a POS they actually went out and built a Landmark.

This situation has the domino affect on the Greenway. I feel that IC and Atlantic Wharf are quaility buildings for the Long-term.

Then you got 70 Million dollar tax break for the Fan Pier development which has a quick real estate flip written all over it. That is why the taxpayers and the citizens of Boston deserve better than this.

Was there ever taxbreaks from the city & state for IC, Atlantic Wharf and IP to get built? I'm not sure.

If not........That is the perfect example of Private capital money compared to Private & taxpayers money.

Fallon end game is to double or triple his money. Instead of building long-term value for the city.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

More pictures and less bitching please!

Although to weigh in, I don't think we should be able to take back these tax breaks after the fact, but it also really pisses me off that some developers (in this case, an insurance company) get tax breaks to build, while others get flat-out extorted. It's a microcosm of everything wrong with our country today, and before anybody tries to bring partisan politics into the mix, both sides of the aisle have been bought and paid for, and it's disgusting, and frankly at this point I'm not sure there is anything any of us can do about it.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

ok here u go^from last week
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Love the 2nd one and the last one. Thanks!
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Great to see it in the context of the park.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Picture number 3 looks like the Old Hancock is being entombed...which it essentially is from points southeast.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

From Friday.

 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Looks like I found where I'm spending New Years 2013
 
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