Liberty Mutual Tower | 157 Berkeley Street | Back Bay

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

The main complaint about gerbil tubes from people who care about actual good urbanism (as opposed to those who care about trying suburbanise the city) is that they remove people from the street and kill street life.

Granted, in this case it is just employees shuttling between offices so it's not that big of a deal, but it's nice see NABB on the side of good urbanism for a change.
Much better than the typical complaints about wind, shadows and traffic.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Taken off the Boston Herald Message board

shirleykressel ? +1 0

I have been at almost all the meetings, and I know the project well. It is a parasite on the public, in every way, financially, legally, environmentally.

It will not "create jobs." It is getting all this indulgence by promising to hire 30 people a hear, only six of them likely to be Boston residents, over 20 years -- 75% LESS hiring than it has done in the past six years without any tax help. Job-wise,this is NOTHING. Yes, there will be a couple of years of construction jobs, but that's not community development; and those workers could be doing something USEFUL rather than this vanity tower glorifying 100 years of massive profits at Liberty Mutual.

Don't forget the $22.5 million Deval Patrick gave Liberty Mutual, $4.5 million of which he had to falsify their application to justify.

Further, Liberty has explicitly admitted that it never had any intention of pulling its headquarters out of Boston. None, never. So Menino is making up a threat that never existed to justify his give-away.

Liberty is not giving any private property for public use -- unless you call putting out a bench making private property a public place. And I'll bet there won't even be that bench.

Liberty Mutual has no shareholders. All the profits go to the chief executives. Ted Kelly makes $27 million a year already, outrageous even by corporate standards. Do the citizens of Boston and Massachusetts owe him a better salary? Will he "create jobs" if he is paid even more?

There is absolutely no reason for this company, which owns over $110 billion in assets and nets $1 billion annually in profit, to be allowed to build at triple the legal height, or to be given $46.5 million. That's all there is to it.

Oh, there is one more thing. Liberty donated $10,000 to Menino's campaign fund, and $50,000 to Deval Patrick's.

BackBay56, please reveal your identity if you expect your comments to be taken seriously. For all we know, you work for Liberty Mutual, or stand to gain from this project. I'm sure you know me; I'd like to know you.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

There was an article in last week's Back Bay Sun which quoted Yanni Tsipis, from the consulting firm working with Liberty Mutual, saying that they specifically opted not to offer any retail space in an effort to avoid competing with nearby realtors!? What the hell is going on here?

The gerbil tube is awful, but the dead streetscape this building will create is worse. I'm glad the community is speaking out against this. This building should not be allowed as is.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Did nearby retailers gain a voice in the "community" discussion over this thing, maybe? If so, it sets a precedent that fucks this city more deeply than ever.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

briv said:
The gerbil tube is awful
Click to expand...

Why, exactly, is it such a tragedy? As Statler stated, it will only be used by employees who would do nothing but run across the street, anyways.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Gerbil tubes help to completely suppress street life on Huntington between Copley, the Pru, and the Westin. Of course these are public tubes, whereas LibMu's would only be for employees - probably not the same effect.

Of course on Huntington there are other factors too: the exterior architecture of those complexes, the pike ramps, and so forth.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

TheRifleman said:
Taken off the Boston Herald Message board

shirleykressel ? +1 0

I have been at almost all the meetings, and I know the project well. It is a parasite on the public, in every way, financially, legally, environmentally.

It will not "create jobs." It is getting all this indulgence by promising to hire 30 people a hear, only six of them likely to be Boston residents, over 20 years -- 75% LESS hiring than it has done in the past six years without any tax help. Job-wise,this is NOTHING. Yes, there will be a couple of years of construction jobs, but that's not community development; and those workers could be doing something USEFUL rather than this vanity tower glorifying 100 years of massive profits at Liberty Mutual.

Don't forget the $22.5 million Deval Patrick gave Liberty Mutual, $4.5 million of which he had to falsify their application to justify.

Further, Liberty has explicitly admitted that it never had any intention of pulling its headquarters out of Boston. None, never. So Menino is making up a threat that never existed to justify his give-away.

Liberty is not giving any private property for public use -- unless you call putting out a bench making private property a public place. And I'll bet there won't even be that bench.

Liberty Mutual has no shareholders. All the profits go to the chief executives. Ted Kelly makes $27 million a year already, outrageous even by corporate standards. Do the citizens of Boston and Massachusetts owe him a better salary? Will he "create jobs" if he is paid even more?

There is absolutely no reason for this company, which owns over $110 billion in assets and nets $1 billion annually in profit, to be allowed to build at triple the legal height, or to be given $46.5 million. That's all there is to it.

Oh, there is one more thing. Liberty donated $10,000 to Menino's campaign fund, and $50,000 to Deval Patrick's.

BackBay56, please reveal your identity if you expect your comments to be taken seriously. For all we know, you work for Liberty Mutual, or stand to gain from this project. I'm sure you know me; I'd like to know you.
Click to expand...

Seriously, Shirley Kessel must be working at a job that gives her no profit. As in she must spend all her money she earn on necessities and no luxuries. Are businesses and corporations not supposed to maximize profit. Sure their proposal lacks good urban aspects, but this is the same crap that Kessel spews on any company. Kessel either lacks any knowledge on how to run a private company, or is just jealous that she makes 5 digit salary criticizing everything while others who actually work are making more than her, whether they deserve the sum or not.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

KentXie said:
Seriously, Shirley Kessel must be working at a job that gives her no profit. As in she must spend all her money she earn on necessities and no luxuries. Are businesses and corporations not supposed to maximize profit. Sure their proposal lacks good urban aspects, but this is the same crap that Kessel spews on any company. Kessel either lacks any knowledge on how to run a private company, or is just jealous that she makes 5 digit salary criticizing everything while others who actually work are making more than her, whether they deserve the sum or not.
Click to expand...


I agree that private companies should be able to pay CEO's whatever they want 100Million a year to 100K. The only problem I have with this development is the city and state justifying tax breaks to Liberty Mutual to build a building. Menino claiming Liberty Mutual is creating jobs is just plain bullshit.

I will admit that their might be cases for the city and state to help a developer get something built maybe sometype of foundation problems causing safety situations to it's citizens.

But to give a very profitable company tax breaks is an insult to the taxpayers especially when the Mayor is threatening Non-Profits, Hospitals, and Colleges about cutting back on city services because of the lack of city revenue. (So basically our politicans take from everybody that doesn't contribute to them and give to their friends).

Giving Liberty Mutual Tax breaks for building in the backbay is political and financial fraud against the taxpayer.


So I do support Shirley Kessel smelling out the fraud on this development plan.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I believe Shirley is a semi-retired landscape architect.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Shirley Krissel can sound like a real nincompoop, that is true. However, in this case she is correct on many counts. Liberty Mutual does not deserve any tax breaks or government assitance in building a building which is purely for thier own corporate uses and adds nothing to the public realm. If you want to argue it does, than you need to support tax breaks for every construction project in this city, large and small.

Of course we know it doesn't work that way. Boston is ruled like a feifdom and only those on the inside of the castle walls are due any favors from Lord Menino. Otherwise, you are expected to get back to work in the fields and shut your mouth.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I can understand questioning the state tax breaks. If Liberty Mutual moves out of Boston they probably end up in Arlington or Burlington and still pay state taxes. So giving them a state tax credit is kind of silly (for another example - see JP Morgan's new office in Southie).

But I don't understand why people are up in arms over the city tax breaks. The Globe reported that the City is giving $16M in tax breaks but will still gain an incremental $50M in taxes over the next 20 years. Sounds like a winner to me. The Salvation Army didn't pay taxes. And it's not like something was about to be built there . . . Christ, we all sit here and complain about how nothing gets built in Boston anymore.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Arlington? I can't think of any place there to put a major corporation.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

AmericanFolkLegend said:
I can understand questioning the state tax breaks. If Liberty Mutual moves out of Boston they probably end up in Arlington or Burlington and still pay state taxes. So giving them a state tax credit is kind of silly (for another example - see JP Morgan's new office in Southie).

But I don't understand why people are up in arms over the city tax breaks. The Globe reported that the City is giving $16M in tax breaks but will still gain an incremental $50M in taxes over the next 20 years. Sounds like a winner to me. The Salvation Army didn't pay taxes. And it's not like something was about to be built there . . . Christ, we all sit here and complain about how nothing gets built in Boston anymore.
Click to expand...


Take a look at Cambridge which is probably the hottest city in the country. The Universities with the BIOTECH BOOM in that area and new innovation is being pumped out of the area at a rapid pace. Cambridge looks like something out of the movie I-Robot near the Genyzme building area. Boston has been struggling because of the bureaucracy coming out of city hall. Nothing gets built in Boston because of the corruption. Until you get the corruption out of city hall we will be stuck with the same mindset that has been in office for 20 years. Boston development is going backwards or nowhere. I don't even want to talk about the horrific architectural designs that have been built or presented (Fan Pier is atrocious). Boston has been very blessed city with it's non-profit institituions investing billions of dollars over the last couple decades. Without those investments in the city we would be living in a slum.

My point is that if Liberty Mutual left it would open opportunties for another company to take it's place and replace tax revenues especially with the talent pool with all the universities is in the city of Boston. AKA Cambridge with their Biotech situation.

The only real solution for this city to really excel and move forward into the future is what LURKER said. You need to separate the Mayor and the BRA. The BRA should have no political ties and help create balance between the developers and neighborhood watch groups. The BRA should be unbiased on every development to help economic growth.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

My point is that if Liberty Mutual left it would open opportunties for another company to take it's place and replace tax revenues.
Click to expand...

Worked well for Detroit.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

AmericanFolkLegend said:
Worked well for Detroit.
Click to expand...

Without the colleges this city would like Detroit.

But the difference is the colleges Harvard, Tufts, BC, BU, Northeastern, MIT. I mean look at the money that these non-profits pump into the city. The industry is practically depression proof.
This is the only reason why Menino has been able to get reelected each year. Was the growth of the colleges.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

^^My biggest fear for Boston is that online degrees really take off and campus style schools become a quaint 'thing-of-the-past'.

A thought just occurred to me (although this point has probably been brought up a million times before elsewhere): The whole "tax cuts to keep (or lure) a company in/to a city" thing is a classic prisoners dilemma problem.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

A thought just occurred to me (although this point has probably been brought up a million times before elsewhere): The whole "tax cuts to keep (or lure) a company in/to a city" thing is a classic prisoners dilemma problem.
Click to expand...

Totally agree Statler. It's a "race to the bottom". I feel the same way about states legalizing casinos.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I 100% think online degrees and comunity colleges will explode in enrolment the next 25 years. I mean dorms, intramural sports, varisty sports (exluding football and basketball), semester's abroad are all cool as hell, but to go 200K in debt just to get a diploma that just gets your foot in the corporate door is ridiculous. People will smarten up and go to places that just give you the education and non of the other things. Especially when now that masters are the new B.S's. But in a world of 7 billion there will still be plenty of rich kids who can afford the crazy rates of our top schools. And Boston has carved itself quite a nich in this market. So I think Boston should fare well through that transition.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

That's not what I'm criticizing about. What I am criticizing is this quote:

"There is absolutely no reason for this company, which owns over $110 billion in assets and nets $1 billion annually in profit, to be allowed to build at triple the legal height, or to be given $46.5 million. That's all there is to it."

What does the business's asset and profit have to do with whether it is allowed to build taller or not? The reason is that LM wants to expand and increase its profit, which is the goal of every business and corporation. Using that as an excuse clearly shows her lack of understanding, or jealousy, or trying to incite the people that profit=greed=bad and thus will increase the opposition. She is playing dirty.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

KentXie said:
That's not what I'm criticizing about. What I am criticizing is this quote:

"There is absolutely no reason for this company, which owns over $110 billion in assets and nets $1 billion annually in profit, to be allowed to build at triple the legal height, or to be given $46.5 million. That's all there is to it."

What does the business's asset and profit have to do with whether it is allowed to build taller or not? The reason is that LM wants to expand and increase its profit, which is the goal of every business and corporation. Using that as an excuse clearly shows her lack of understanding, or jealousy, or trying to incite the people that profit=greed=bad and thus will increase the opposition. She is playing dirty.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top