Liberty Mutual Tower | 157 Berkeley Street | Back Bay

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Rifleman, the city doesn't give "tax breaks" to hospitals. They and all other non-profits are exempt from taxation not just by the city, but the state and the feds as well - that's a specious argument you make.

And I don't understand how a TIF arrangement "takes away from the private sector." It doesn't take anything away from anybody, and results in a net increase in real estate taxes for the host municipality, not a decrease as you suggest. Plus, a Vornado or any other speculative office developer isn't really creating permanent jobs - they're building speculative office space but, apart from a couple security and property management folks, the people working in that new speculative office building (if they're lucky enough to find a tenant) aren't net new jobs - they came from some other building, canibalizing one location for the benefit of another, but doing nothing to actually create new F/T jobs in the market. LM is hiring 600 *new* people to go into this building - those are real new jobs, not jobs just moved from one building to another.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Greenwayguy,

If those non-profits are tax exempt then why is the mayor threatening to cut city services unless they start contributing sometype of taxes to the city?
But then the Mayor goes out and gives Liberty Mutual 50 Million to expand their insurance company. Which LM claims they will hire 600 new people, WHEN? Over how many years will this take? 20..... Every business in Boston expands overtime if your successful.
And the real question is why give tax breaks to Liberty Mutual and not other large corporations that rake in a 1 billion dollars a year in profit, then start to threaten the Non-profits in the city to start paying sometype tax to help the city continue to run it's services. It's like a double edge sword. It doesn't matter about city tax revenue, maybe they should cut down on some city services if the city has become the second largest employer in the city.

These quotes say it all below on how I feel. Every private company wants to expand in the city. They should do it with their own private money and expense. Maybe the Mayor should start to learn how to balance the budget and not be concerned with doing large corporations favors.



TheRifleman said:
Taken off the Boston Herald Message board

shirleykressel ? +1 0

I have been at almost all the meetings, and I know the project well. It is a parasite on the public, in every way, financially, legally, environmentally.

It will not "create jobs." It is getting all this indulgence by promising to hire 30 people a hear, only six of them likely to be Boston residents, over 20 years -- 75% LESS hiring than it has done in the past six years without any tax help. Job-wise,this is NOTHING. Yes, there will be a couple of years of construction jobs, but that's not community development; and those workers could be doing something USEFUL rather than this vanity tower glorifying 100 years of massive profits at Liberty Mutual.

Don't forget the $22.5 million Deval Patrick gave Liberty Mutual, $4.5 million of which he had to falsify their application to justify.

Further, Liberty has explicitly admitted that it never had any intention of pulling its headquarters out of Boston. None, never. So Menino is making up a threat that never existed to justify his give-away.

Liberty is not giving any private property for public use -- unless you call putting out a bench making private property a public place. And I'll bet there won't even be that bench.

Liberty Mutual has no shareholders. All the profits go to the chief executives. Ted Kelly makes $27 million a year already, outrageous even by corporate standards. Do the citizens of Boston and Massachusetts owe him a better salary? Will he "create jobs" if he is paid even more?

There is absolutely no reason for this company, which owns over $110 billion in assets and nets $1 billion annually in profit, to be allowed to build at triple the legal height, or to be given $46.5 million. That's all there is to it.

Oh, there is one more thing. Liberty donated $10,000 to Menino's campaign fund, and $50,000 to Deval Patrick's.

BackBay56, please reveal your identity if you expect your comments to be taken seriously. For all we know, you work for Liberty Mutual, or stand to gain from this project. I'm sure you know me; I'd like to know you.
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"There is absolutely no reason for this company, which owns over $110 billion in assets and nets $1 billion annually in profit, or to be given $46.5 million in city and state tax breaks. That's all there is to it."


In the end this is not creating jobs for the future this is skimming off the taxpayer over time to justify jobs.

Average Joe ends up with less buying power as the city and corporations continue to steal their hardworking tax dollar for favors.
 
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

greenwayguy1982 said:
And I don't understand how a TIF arrangement "takes away from the private sector." It doesn't take anything away from anybody, and results in a net increase in real estate taxes for the host municipality, not a decrease as you suggest. Plus, a Vornado or any other speculative office developer isn't really creating permanent jobs - they're building speculative office space but, apart from a couple security and property management folks, the people working in that new speculative office building (if they're lucky enough to find a tenant) aren't net new jobs - they came from some other building, canibalizing one location for the benefit of another, but doing nothing to actually create new F/T jobs in the market. LM is hiring 600 *new* people to go into this building - those are real new jobs, not jobs just moved from one building to another.
Click to expand...


I would rather speculative building of office space that might actually be able to persuade outside corporations to relocate to the city of Boston. That's called capitalism when somebody builds something with their own private money because they believe that they can create jobs with the project that they are building.

I think this country forgot this concept. Now our country is called BAILOUT nation. 862 billion dollar Stimilus to help create jobs. hows that working?
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Getting LM to build with tax breaks might benefit the city financially in the long run based on new tax revenues, even if not new jobs. If the long term thinking here is sound, and the math works, then I won't argue that point. But my problems remain 1) inconsistency and 2) opacity.

1) Inconsistency
If the math is sound, then apply it to every development. Show, with numbers, why the math is sound for LM but not for Vornado or any number of other stalled or proposed projects. Similarly, take a consistent approach to height "guidelines." Why are they suggestions to be varianced for LM but canon law for Chiofaro?

2) Opacity
A consistent dictatorship may be better than an inconsistent one, but it's still a dictatorship. Therefore, transparency must go hand in hand with consistency. Show how consistent principles are applied and let the public in on the process. I firmly believe NIMBYs would have a lot less to fight about - and eventually muck up projects - if both they and developers could trust the transparency of the development process and how it relates to city coffers, community input, etc. We can blame NIMBYs all we want, but the BRA effectively empowers them by keeping so much of the process vague and opaque.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Shepard said:
Getting LM to build with tax breaks might benefit the city financially in the long run based on new tax revenues, even if not new jobs. If the long term thinking here is sound, and the math works, then I won't argue that point. But my problems remain 1) inconsistency and 2) opacity.

1) Inconsistency
If the math is sound, then apply it to every development. Show, with numbers, why the math is sound for LM but not for Vornado or any number of other stalled or proposed projects. Similarly, take a consistent approach to height "guidelines." Why are they suggestions to be varianced for LM but canon law for Chiofaro?

2) Opacity
A consistent dictatorship may be better than an inconsistent one, but it's still a dictatorship. Therefore, transparency must go hand in hand with consistency. Show how consistent principles are applied and let the public in on the process. I firmly believe NIMBYs would have a lot less to fight about - and eventually muck up projects - if both they and developers could trust the transparency of the development process and how it relates to city coffers, community input, etc. We can blame NIMBYs all we want, but the BRA effectively empowers them by keeping so much of the process vague and opaque.
Click to expand...


Great post.....No public official should be in office over 20 years. It ends up becoming a dictatorship. You need balance and like you said in your quote.

"consistency"
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

^^
Fair points, but...

1. Vornado hasn't asked for a TIF or demonstrated that it would make their project viable. Ball's in their court to do so.

2. Chiofaro hasn't actually submitted a variance application or a PDA application so how can you say the city is applying anything inconsistently....again, Ball's in the developer's court to do so if he chooses.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

greenwayguy1982 said:
^^
Fair points, but...

1. Vornado hasn't asked for a TIF or demonstrated that it would make their project viable. Ball's in their court to do so.

2. Chiofaro hasn't actually submitted a variance application or a PDA application so how can you say the city is applying anything inconsistently....again, Ball's in the developer's court to do so if he chooses.
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Why doesn't the city give Chiofaro the tax breaks to present something that would be economically feasible at 200ft. If this location is so important that anything over 200ft built would damage the entire Greenway then give him some incentive to build. Instead the BRA is insisting he paid too much for the garage.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

G'wayguy - I agree that developers share responsibility, and Chiofaro has mucked up the Harbor Garage as much as anyone else. What he should do at this point is put in a serious proposal for another Greenway site that allows the height he proposes... and see if his proposal is treated at that point in a consistent and transparent way.

But I also agree with Rifleman. The Boston REDEVELOPMENT Authority is not just an approvals board. There's push - which is what we see a lot of when it comes to new projects - and there's pull, which is partially what happened in the case of LM. The BRA withholds its "pull" selectively. For example, what happened to the "pull" on the Government Center Garage? Well, in that case, it's now in the hands of a BRA insider and the office space has reportedly been leased out again, which means nothing will happen in the near future. Is it corruption? Probably not as strictly defined, but why is there "pull" when it comes to redeveloping a corner of Back Bay, but no outrage when two blighted garages will remain forever on our landscape? In the case of the garages, one is because of the BRA's hostility and the other because of the BRA's complicity. Where's the consistency? Where's the transparency?
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

From the Boston Courant 8/27:

"Liberty Mutual will be required to create a park as mitigation for the pedestrian connector bridge that will be built over Stuart Street.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) board told the Fortune 500 Company a commitment to improving the public realm was required for the approval that was given for the project last week, according to Jessica Shumaker, spokesman for the BRA.

Liberty Mutual agreed that the parking lot at 30 St. James Avenue could be made available as a park, or another piece of company owned land could be used according to John Cusolito."

The article also mentions a "plan to have a public cafe at the Berkeley Street entrance of the new building where Patrons can buy coffee and something quick to eat, Cusolito said. Seating will not be available inside"


I'll try to scan the whole article. I was hoping for more retail at the ground level but it sounds like it's just going to be a coffee counter in the lobby.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Better than nothing, but does the park make up for the tax break?

Also if the park is as inspired as this design then get ready for more useless open space.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Also, their new building will create a shadow on that park!

=) j/k
 
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Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

vanshnookenraggen said:
Better than nothing, but does the park make up for the tax break?

Also if the park is as inspired as this design then get ready for more useless open space.
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I bet this park turns out to be nothing more than a nice place for a smoke break for LM employees. No way they create something truly inviting for the public.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

TheRifleman said:
Great post.....No public official should be in office over 20 years. It ends up becoming a dictatorship. You need balance and like istency"
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THIS bieng the true thing here. DUCE in ofice for XXIII year. He end up blancing self BY HEELS from this Milano gasstation canpie.
OUR MAYO not meeting thses fates. NO gasstation in master plan
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

TheRifleman said:
I would rather speculative building of office space that might actually be able to persuade outside corporations to relocate to the city of Boston. That's called capitalism when somebody builds something with their own private money because they believe that they can create jobs with the project that they are building.

I think this country forgot this concept. Now our country is called BAILOUT nation. 862 billion dollar Stimilus to help create jobs. hows that working?
Click to expand...

Um. Have you ever heard of the Homestead Act?
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

They really should be concerned if shadows are casted over the Common it's alot more important than the Greenway in my opinion.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I don't argue with your logic. I'm not sure they've even done a study, yet. This has been rushed through with such speed.
 
Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

JohnAKeith said:
I don't argue with your logic. I'm not sure they've even done a study, yet. This has been rushed through with such speed.
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That's because the unions don't have any jobs in the pipeline. The BRA could careless about the Neighborhood Groups apposing the project. This was bought and paid in the last elections. You are witnessing corruption right infront of your face. Take a look at the support Liberty Mutual has given to the Menino and Patrick Adminstration. Thousands of dollars, which is not a bad thing, I actually like the renderings

I'm not saying they should not build a nice tall building. I actually like the idea. I'm just sickened that my hard earned dollars goes to contribute to Liberty Mutual Wealth.
Like they really need tax breaks to expand in Boston.

People better start waking up. How much did the CEO of Libery Mutual make last year? I'm sure nothing less than 10 Million.


I really could careless about shadows it's the city but some people should consider if this building will cast a massive shadow on the Common.
 
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