Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

Oakley said:
Emirates would be a great addition to Boston. A great product, a growing route network that will be extremely attractive through a non-restricted hub in Dubai. Not to mention they serve quite of few destinations that other carriers don't.

I'm guessing they'll focus on adding Chicago, Washington, and Miami first before Boston. I believe Emirates plans to add 4-5 more U.S. cities in the next few years. Would the 787 be what would get Emirates to Boston?

If Boston could get Korean Air to Seoul, ANA or Delta to Tokyo, and an airline like Emirates to Dubai/Middle East, flying out of Logan will be very attractive and a great carrot for businesses to come to Boston.





I don't really see JetBlue gaining anything from going into any other airports and going head-to-head with Southwest (and I think the Florida market is really the only thing they could go after). Not to mention the costs to open a new city, dedicate aircraft, and the manage the service and the airport station costs. Better off building up the hub out of Boston.
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JetBlue has been a god send for Boston in a lot of ways. The legacy carriers, battered financially, have been retrenching and shifting a ton of capacity to their hubs, instead of point 2 point routes. Boston, while it is a massive air market, the 10th largest based on domestic numbers, has seen airlines like American and Delta trim schedules. American used to fly non-stop out of Boston to places like New Orleans, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, San Jose, Las Vegas, Seattle, Norfolk, VA, those have all been cut in the last 5-6 years. JetBlue has stepped in an really built Boston into a solid hub for them.

JetBlue continues to build on partnerships with foreign carriers such as Lufthansa and that can only mean good things for Boston. If JetBlue were ever to join an alliance and that may very well happen, that will only be an added benefit to Boston.
 
Mass88, you always have what seems to be up to date information concerning Logan! Are you in the travel industry or work for MassPort? Always appreciate the info and thoughts you have in this area.
 
Just wondering: Are there currently any pitched new runway plans or plans on the table? I know they wanted to extend that really short one, don't know what else there is.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
Just wondering: Are there currently any pitched new runway plans or plans on the table? I know they wanted to extend that really short one, don't know what else there is.
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I don't believe seriously. The residents of East Boston and Winthrop would have a collective seizure if anything of the like were proposed. And given the battles Massport had to go through to get Runway 14/32 and the mid-field taxiway built, they might not have any fight in them for a while.

Plus Logan will never be able to eat up another square inch of Boston Harbor, so I can't really see where they can expand any of the runways, unless they want to extend Runway 13R/33L, which is already the airport's longest, deeper into East Boston - which, in of itself would likely force the rerouting of Rte 1A, so that's nice likely to happen either.
 
The Gulf airlines are expanding massively, and aiming to serve secondary markets via their hub connections. I'd say it's very likely Boston will be getting one of these within 5-10 years, if not sooner.

http://www.economist.com/node/16271573
 
atlantaden said:
Mass88, you always have what seems to be up to date information concerning Logan! Are you in the travel industry or work for MassPort? Always appreciate the info and thoughts you have in this area.
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Thank you Atlanta. I don't work for Massport or the travel industry. I have a couple of friends who do (airlines corporate offices). Airlines and airports are a hobby/interest of mine.
 
I am surprised there is not enough interest to make 1-2 flights per week from Logan to Tel Aviv on El Al profitable for the carrier. Wasn't El Al in Boston years ago or is my memory failing me?
 
The one time I flew El Al from Boston to Israel, I recall having to connect at Montreal's Mirabel airport (which has since closed -- this was in 1989). We never went into the terminal -- just walked through a jetway from one plane directly onto another.
 
BosDevelop said:
I am surprised there is not enough interest to make 1-2 flights per week from Logan to Tel Aviv on El Al profitable for the carrier. Wasn't El Al in Boston years ago or is my memory failing me?
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Tel Aviv is one of the markets Massport mentioned early last year they were targeting.

With the right aircraft, Boston-Tel Aviv could work on a 3-4 times a week basis. The problem is El Al has gas guzzling 767-200ers which would not be suitable for the route along with some 777-200s and 747-400s. They have a small fleet of long haul aircraft. The 762 would be the right size, just not the most economical.

There is a decent sized market between the 2, but I don't think we will see it any time soon. El Al has limited resources are will concentrate on the biggest markets.
 
If I recall, they stopped their service to Miami for just that reason - the 762 was too inefficient.
 
Toucano said:
If I recall, they stopped their service to Miami for just that reason - the 762 was too inefficient.
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That and the load factors were pretty poor considering the flight operated less than daily. The yields were not where they needed to be to offset the poor loads and high fuel costs. Miami never really expanded the way LAX did for example.
 
mass88 said:
India is well served on Lufthansa via Munich or Frankfurt. Lufthansa does a good job capturing the India traffic from U.S. cities without non-stop service to India.
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Do you know what the length of this trip would be non-stop? I've flown Lufthansa (via Frankfurt) to Chennai 4 times. It's upwards of 18 hours flying time and nearly 22 total. The one time I flew British Airways from Boston- New Delhi (via Heathrow), it was much more efficient (shorter distance, I know).

Each time I've been to India, there were a large number of people who were with me the whole length of the journey. You seem to be in the know more than I am, but I'd imagine there could be a market for at least one or two weekly Boston- India nonstops.
 
Lrfox said:
Do you know what the length of this trip would be non-stop? I've flown Lufthansa (via Frankfurt) to Chennai 4 times. It's upwards of 18 hours flying time and nearly 22 total. The one time I flew British Airways from Boston- New Delhi (via Heathrow), it was much more efficient (shorter distance, I know).

Each time I've been to India, there were a large number of people who were with me the whole length of the journey. You seem to be in the know more than I am, but I'd imagine there could be a market for at least one or two weekly Boston- India nonstops.
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Non-stop Boston to Mumbai would probably be in the neighborhood of 15 hours. I am basing this off of the time of Newark to Bombai which I have flown before.

There are a lot of markets that Boston could handle and warrant service to on a less than daily basis. Brussels, Athens, Mumbai, Tokyo, Beijing, etc. It's just a matter of airlines being very careful where they deploy their resources and the fact that a lot of international airlines don't like to run routes 1-3 a week. Then there's the typical travel spike due to seasons, for example Boston - Europe spikes between April and October.
 
mass88 said:
Non-stop Boston to Mumbai would probably be in the neighborhood of 15 hours. I am basing this off of the time of Newark to Bombai which I have flown before.

There are a lot of markets that Boston could handle and warrant service to on a less than daily basis. Brussels, Athens, Mumbai, Tokyo, Beijing, etc. It's just a matter of airlines being very careful where they deploy their resources and the fact that a lot of international airlines don't like to run routes 1-3 a week. Then there's the typical travel spike due to seasons, for example Boston - Europe spikes between April and October.
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I figured it would be something like that. I see your point. Hopefully a few successful expansions will encourage more to follow. I also like the Korean Air to Seoul idea.
 
Beton Brut said:
Not to my knowledge.



If you mean 14/32, that would be impossible; extending it south would push it into the harbor; extending it north would push it into the Hyatt Hotel parking lot.
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I meant 15L/33R. The really, REALLY small one. They could extend it south, a little. But they wanted to extend it to the point where they [at least partially] fill in a cove that turned out to have a clam bed of endagered clams or something like that.

I'm pretty sure it's used only for landing, and for small planes. And they can only come in from the sea. ie: It's useless.
 
Interesting news of late:


American is nixing its Boston-San Fran flights. Looks like JetBlue and Virgin America have nudged them out.

In one the biggest routes that has been calling for competition at Boston, Southwest will start service on the Philadelphia-Boston route.
 
Oakley said:
Interesting news of late:


American is nixing its Boston-San Fran flights. Looks like JetBlue and Virgin America have nudged them out.
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Not to mention United's far superior service four or five times per day.
 
Oakley said:
Interesting news of late:


American is nixing its Boston-San Fran flights. Looks like JetBlue and Virgin America have nudged them out.

In one the biggest routes that has been calling for competition at Boston, Southwest will start service on the Philadelphia-Boston route.
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Interesting but not all that surprising. American has been cutting Logan back since 2001. They have been drastically realigning their network to focus on their core cities - New York, Miami, Chicago, Dallas and Los Angeles. Also, American did not have much to feed the Boston-San Fran passengers on either side which hurt.

Boston-San Francisco is a massive market, in terms of number of passengers. 4 carriers all offering non-stop flights and all 4 currently offer multiple daily flights year round, it was only a matter of time before 1 of the carriers bowed out.

Southwest' entrance into Boston-Philadelphia is the most welcomed addition to Logan in 2010. Fares were VERY high and as a result, Providence actually had a larger local market than Boston. But that will now change.
 
kmp1284 said:
Not to mention United's far superior service four or five times per day.
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Also United has a large network to connect passengers going to and from Boston at San Francisco.

The entrance of both JetBlue and Virgin Atlantic caused fares and thus yields to drop. However, United still commands a significantly higher fare on the route than the other carriers.
 
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