Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

You would think IAG should play offense here a bit and just add Boston before Norwegian does but I think the strategy is to not mess with anything that could hurt your other flights (London, Dublin, Madrid)

Jouhou said:
Based on the 2011 numbers, Barcelona would be the top unserved O&D international destination from boston now. Also I bet it would work year round.
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Which 2011 numbers?

Brookings Insititue or the data Massport gave here on slide 7: http://www.maroundtable.com/aroundTable/1206/RouteDevPlan_GovPatrick.pdf

Brookings is 2011 Calendar Year. Massport was their fiscal year -July 2010 through June 2011. Two things happened in those 6 months The economy in Spain bottomed out in Summer 2011 and the Tsunami hit Japan which may have had people shift travel to Seoul (i.e business meetings or people using Seoul instead of Tokyo as a springboard to Asia). For Brookings, Barcelona is the top O+D for Europe. Seoul is the highest overall.

Brookings top 10 that are now unserved are

Seoul,Barcelona, Milan, Athens, Guatemala City, San Jose CR, Mumbai,Sao Paulo,Delhi, Brussels

You could also make the case that Edinburgh and Glasgow are the same market ala Fort Lauderdale and Miami which would make urbanized Scotland #10.

Massport's Fiscal 2011 top unserved markets are:
Barcelona,Athens, San Jose,Guatemala City,Seoul,Sao Paulo,Mumbai,Delhi

I still cannot believe San Jose-Costa Rica is unserved especially with JetBlue already being there and their willingness to add the perfect amount of capacity (i.e 3 weekly if needed)
 
American is increasing LAX-BOS from 4 daily flights up to 5 daily flights on their August through November schedule.
 
mass88 said:
American is increasing LAX-BOS from 4 daily flights up to 5 daily flights on their August through November schedule.
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Been that way for about two summers now. Of course all are 738s or the occasional A321S, which realistically is what we can expect from here on out as the 757 and 763 are both no longer scheduled into LAX.
 
LH421 said:
Admittedly despite my handle I don't have any first hand knowledge on LH and their network plans, but IMO we could see a seasonal rotation of MIAs A380 frame here in the summers going forward. LH generally turns their summer/winter long haul schedule in late March/late October, so this year won't be a go. They could perhaps ramp LH 423 up to the 380 and run the later seasonal LH 421 as a 333 or future A350/777X as the A340s and 744s roll out of the fleet.
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The A380 actually has less premium capacity than the 748 and Boston is neither a Star hub nor does it have doesn't have the bottomless demand of New York, Miami, DC, LA and San Francisco. I assume some people are pleased to see BA's A380 but it isn't exactly a great commentary on the strength of the market as they reduce frequency and thus total seat count on those days relative to last year.
 
adamh8297 said:
You would think IAG should play offense here a bit and just add Boston before Norwegian does but I think the strategy is to not mess with anything that could hurt your other flights (London, Dublin, Madrid)



Which 2011 numbers?

Brookings Insititue or the data Massport gave here on slide 7: http://www.maroundtable.com/aroundTable/1206/RouteDevPlan_GovPatrick.pdf

Brookings is 2011 Calendar Year. Massport was their fiscal year -July 2010 through June 2011. Two things happened in those 6 months The economy in Spain bottomed out in Summer 2011 and the Tsunami hit Japan which may have had people shift travel to Seoul (i.e business meetings or people using Seoul instead of Tokyo as a springboard to Asia). For Brookings, Barcelona is the top O+D for Europe. Seoul is the highest overall.

Brookings top 10 that are now unserved are

Seoul,Barcelona, Milan, Athens, Guatemala City, San Jose CR, Mumbai,Sao Paulo,Delhi, Brussels

You could also make the case that Edinburgh and Glasgow are the same market ala Fort Lauderdale and Miami which would make urbanized Scotland #10.

Massport's Fiscal 2011 top unserved markets are:
Barcelona,Athens, San Jose,Guatemala City,Seoul,Sao Paulo,Mumbai,Delhi

I still cannot believe San Jose-Costa Rica is unserved especially with JetBlue already being there and their willingness to add the perfect amount of capacity (i.e 3 weekly if needed)
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Is Providence considered the same market is Boston for the purposes of these rankings? If so, Edinburgh/Glasgow (and I agree they should be merged, they're close and very well connected) will not be unserved as of this summer (Norwegian between PVD and EDI).
 
kmp1284 said:
The A380 actually has less premium capacity than the 748 and Boston is neither a Star hub nor does it have doesn't have the bottomless demand of New York, Miami, DC, LA and San Francisco. I assume some people are pleased to see BA's A380 but it isn't exactly a great commentary on the strength of the market as they reduce frequency and thus total seat count on those days relative to last year.
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Is the demand to/from Europe really that much larger from DC? I can understand NYC and LA being much larger and even Miami being bigger given the massive amount of tourists that head to South Florida from November through April.
 
A few years ago I had created a spreadsheet derived from the Brookings report that has been referenced here from time to time and from what I recall, DC came out slightly ahead to Europe and way ahead to the Middle East and Africa.
 
DC, NYC, LA, SanFran, and Miami, along with Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Detroit, and Philly are all Hub cities for different US based airlines. United for Chicago, DC, San Fran; American for NYC, Miami, Dallas; Delta for Atlanta, NYC, Detroit...the list goes on. Boston is not a hub for any particular airline which does put it's international numbers at a disadvantage to cities that are a hub. Boston actually does pretty damn good with it's international numbers.
 
atlantaden said:
DC, NYC, LA, SanFran, and Miami...
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But they are also larger markets. Putting the fact that they are hubs aside, more people from most major cities in Europe travel to places like San Francisco and Miami than they do to Boston.
 
kmp1284 said:
A few years ago I had created a spreadsheet derived from the Brookings report that has been referenced here from time to time and from what I recall, DC came out slightly ahead to Europe and way ahead to the Middle East and Africa.
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In the Brookings report Boston-Western/Eastern Europe and Central Asia is larger than DC to those areas by 200K.

If it wasn't for Ireland and the Azores that wouldn't be the case though!

Boston-London/Lisbon/Athens are also larger.

Madrid/Frankfurt/Rome/Istanbul all larger to/from DC

Amsterdam/Paris/Munich are close - Its probably a crap shoot any given year.

I compared some other areas and Boston-Toronto was much larger as well but Ottawa-DC is obviously bigger due to capital to capital traffic which leads you to want to bet on DC being larger than Boston for many other markets especially the one's they really lead in Middle East and Africa.
 
kmp1284 said:
The A380 actually has less premium capacity than the 748 and Boston is neither a Star hub nor does it have doesn't have the bottomless demand of New York, Miami, DC, LA and San Francisco. I assume some people are pleased to see BA's A380 but it isn't exactly a great commentary on the strength of the market as they reduce frequency and thus total seat count on those days relative to last year.
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True enough and I'm well aware on the LOPAs. A few years ago in either Airways or Airline Weekly there was a quote from an LH VP acknowledging that much and sharing context of why they have both types in the fleet.

Having flown both 748i and A380, IMO A380 is far superior in both premium cabins. The F lavs on the A380 especially and quiet upper deck is far more spacious than the intimate 748i nose, but both are fantastic products. First world problems, but this is my experience nonetheless. I do maintain that it is conceivable, but perhaps not imminent we will see the LH A380, perhaps seasonally.

And I concur on the BA product comments in the other thread, but IMO they're testing the lower bounds of what is acceptable in a premium cabin. Especially when you consider they charge non-Saphire (or above) premium pax for seat assignments upon booking. I've done cases on ancillary revenue for passenger carriers, and presumably BA finds enough people are simply paying if they want advanced seat assignments.
 
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kmp1284 said:
The A380 actually has less premium capacity than the 748 and Boston is neither a Star hub nor does it have doesn't have the bottomless demand of New York, Miami, DC, LA and San Francisco. I assume some people are pleased to see BA's A380 but it isn't exactly a great commentary on the strength of the market as they reduce frequency and thus total seat count on those days relative to last year.
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The annual drops in passengers to LHR seems to be directly linked to Logan having a more diverse array of international destinations. It's not necessarily a bad thing (except for BA I guess) and their consolidating frequencies into larger aircraft does free up gatespace overall.
 
Jouhou said:
The annual drops in passengers to LHR seems to be directly linked to Logan having a more diverse array of international destinations. It's not necessarily a bad thing (except for BA I guess) and their consolidating frequencies into larger aircraft does free up gatespace overall.
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Any time there are fewer options for consumers, it's a bad thing.
 
adamh8297 said:
In the Brookings report Boston-Western/Eastern Europe and Central Asia is larger than DC to those areas by 200K.

If it wasn't for Ireland and the Azores that wouldn't be the case though!

Boston-London/Lisbon/Athens are also larger.

Madrid/Frankfurt/Rome/Istanbul all larger to/from DC

Amsterdam/Paris/Munich are close - Its probably a crap shoot any given year.

I compared some other areas and Boston-Toronto was much larger as well but Ottawa-DC is obviously bigger due to capital to capital traffic which leads you to want to bet on DC being larger than Boston for many other markets especially the one's they really lead in Middle East and Africa.
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Brussels, Vienna and Geneva are also much larger markets for DC(obviously) though Basel and Zurich probably tip Switzerland in general in the favor of Boston.
 
kmp1284 said:
Any time there are fewer options for consumers, it's a bad thing.
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Plus the A380 and 787 are significantly more efficient aircraft (in terms of operating cost per passenger mile) compared to what they're replacing for BA...so I wouldn't be surprised if the drop in passengers coincident with equipment change means hardly a hit on the bottom line for BA in BOS...
 
United has gone all lie-flat on Boston-San Francisco as well. The 777s have the same awful fore and aft business class set-up that is used on international routes but the 757s will have the same seat as Delta and what American has on its transcon A321s.
 
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