Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[omaja]

Skybus lasted less than a year, got universally bad reviews, and tried to fill a non-existent downmarket niche. Not to mention that it flew out of Portsmouth NH rather than Logan. No way did they drive JetBlue out of that market.

Sky Bus did not have any significant affect. JetBlue as a whole decided to pull out of Columbus due to competition and the fact that they lost money.

It was a combination of factors, of which the entrance of Skybus into the Boston-Columbus market (by way of Portsmouth-Columbus) was the final nail in the coffin. To say that Skybus did not have a significant impact is to ignore the sequence of events that occurred.

Skybus was successful in siphoning off Columbus-originating traffic all the while American and Delta (which were significantly larger in Boston at the time) were both operating the BOS-CMH route. If Skybus hadn't entered the picture, JetBlue would have likely have stuck it out long enough to force American's eventual exit from the market.

But I digress, JetBlue's failure in Columbus is not at all indicative of its potential in other Midwestern markets. Columbus is low-hanging fruit when the likes of Minneapolis, Detroit, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, etc. are bigger or higher-yielding markets from Boston anyway.

 

[jass]

http://www.faremeasure.com/ is the place to find stats regarding city pairs.

Excellent, thanks. This is considered mostly accurate, yes?

Seems to be lacking international though.


Edit: Hm, I dont know how much i trust this. I looked up Fresno, and it says most passengers are flying to....

Seattle?

I dont buy it.

 

[stellarfun]

Southwest abandoning PHL-BOS.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-09-...southwest-spokesman-chris-mainz-fares-flights

 

[omaja]

Excellent, thanks. This is considered mostly accurate, yes?

Seems to be lacking international though.

It is pretty accurate, albeit outdated. Faremeasure's numbers come from Table 6 of the Q3 2010 Domestic Airline Fares Consumer Report. (link) Note that this is only domestic US markets. International route information can be found here. Or you could always use Wikipedia to find a consolidated list for most major airports - like Logan.

Edit: Hm, I dont know how much i trust this. I looked up Fresno, and it says most passengers are flying to....

Seattle?

I dont buy it.

SEA, PHX and LAS are the top 3 markets from Fresno, which makes a lot of sens when you consider that LA and San Francisco are both within driving distance. Seattle, Phoenix and Las Vegas are the three largest cities closest to Fresno but outside the comfortable 3-4 hour driving time radius that tends to take away from air travel demand.

 

[jass]

Right, but most people fly to LA or SFO to continue to Hawaii, Asia, Mexico, east coast, europe, etc.

 

[omaja]

Those numbers only represent origination/destination passengers. Any connections at LAX or SFO are not counted as they would be included in numbers for Fresno-Honolulu, Fresno-Tokyo, Fresno-Guadalajara, etc.

 

[Beton Brut]

Southwest abandoning PHL-BOS.
http://articles.philly.com/2011-09-...southwest-spokesman-chris-mainz-fares-flights

Upside - we'll never see this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANhofzv-n7c

WIN!

 

[Oakley]

I would say there is a good chance that Korean Air returns with Boston-Seoul flights operated with a 787. I am willing to bet some carriers are waiting to see how Boston-Tokyo does before jumping in. But the route makes sense. Korean Air has a massive hub in Incheon that can connect passengers all over Asia.

Brazil is an interesting market. There would be no issues filling a plane year round at least 3 or 4 times a week. The problem is the yields. Most of the traffic is visiting friends/family down there. Given the long length, it would kill the financial performance. However, the 787 will of course open up routes, so who knows. Maybe in 5 or 6 years we could see a Boston-Sao Paulo route.

I think once Emirates starts Boston, which I think they will by 2015, Boston-India traffic will be taken care of.

I believe Korean Air themselves that Boston is a target for them with the 787.

Emirates would be nice. What kind of aircraft would they fly? Would it be daily?

JetBlue leaving the BOS-CMH market had everything to do with Skybus killing yields in Columbus and says absolutely nothing about the viability of the airline entering other Midwestern markets from Boston.

Not to mention, Boston sees more traffic and/or commands higher fares for routes to/from the cities I listed than it does to Columbus.

It was a combination of factors, of which the entrance of Skybus into the Boston-Columbus market (by way of Portsmouth-Columbus) was the final nail in the coffin. To say that Skybus did not have a significant impact is to ignore the sequence of events that occurred.

Skybus was successful in siphoning off Columbus-originating traffic all the while American and Delta (which were significantly larger in Boston at the time) were both operating the BOS-CMH route. If Skybus hadn't entered the picture, JetBlue would have likely have stuck it out long enough to force American's eventual exit from the market.

Skybus never flew to Boston directly. They never had an impact on JetBlue, even less so when flying to Portsmouth.

American and Delta operated on the Boston-Columbus rote?




Pretty nice to see AA get competition from JetBlue on the DFW/BOS route. American has to be fuming that JetBlue is entering their home turf at DFW that they protect with all of their might. Competition is great.

 

[omaja]

Skybus never flew to Boston directly. They never had an impact on JetBlue, even less so when flying to Portsmouth.

Irrelevant considering they marketed Portsmouth as Boston and were able to capture price-sensitive Columbus-originating traffic doing so. JetBlue's exit was a combination of factors, of which Skybus played a contributing (and final-nail-in-the-coffin) role.

Fast-forward to now: Skybus went bankrupt, both American and JetBlue exited the market and Delta is left with a pretty nice monopoly.

American and Delta operated on the Boston-Columbus rote?

Yes, American Eagle used to fly the route 3-4x daily and dropped it sometime in 2007-2008 time frame. Delta Connection is the only carrier flying BOS-CMH nonstop now with 3x daily flights.

 

[mass88]

I believe Korean Air themselves that Boston is a target for them with the 787.

Emirates would be nice. What kind of aircraft would they fly? Would it be daily?





Skybus never flew to Boston directly. They never had an impact on JetBlue, even less so when flying to Portsmouth.

American and Delta operated on the Boston-Columbus rote?




Pretty nice to see AA get competition from JetBlue on the DFW/BOS route. American has to be fuming that JetBlue is entering their home turf at DFW that they protect with all of their might. Competition is great.

We will have to see how JAL does on their Boston-Tokyo Narita route before more Asian carriers join the fray. JAL and Korean are probably the best 2 carriers to run the service. I think by 2017 we could see non-stop flights to Seoul as well.

Emirates has been growing like crazy and show no signs of stopping. It's a matter of when, not if, for them to start Boston service. I think we will see Boston-Dubai non-stop flights in the next 3-4 years running at least 3-4 times a week. As far as aircraft go, it could be run with a few different planers: 77W, 345, 772 LR (I think would be the most likely), the 350 or even the 332. So essentially any of the long haul aircraft in their fleet could make the Boston run.

 

[whighlander]

Former MBTA Head Davey now the Sec of DOT get's appointment as new Chair of Massport

This appointment promises a tight integration between the various transportation elements of the Commonwealth (T, Massport, Highway) -- the question is what will come of it?

anyway here's part of the Massport Press relese:

" Massport Board Elects Transportation Sec. Davey as New Chairman

BEDFORD – The Massachusetts Port Authority Board unanimously elected MassDOT Transportation Secretary and Chief Executive Officer Richard Davey to head the seven-member board which oversees Massport, a financially independent authority which owns and operates Boston Logan International Airport, the public container and cruise terminals in the Port of Boston, Hanscom Field, Worcester Regional Airport as well as real estate holdings and public parks in South Boston and East Boston.

Members of the Board are chosen by the Governor. The Transportation Secretary, by statute, is an ex officio member. The other members serve staggered seven year terms. The board members are not paid for their service to Massport. Davey, joined the Board in September and will replace Ranch Kimball, who is leaving the Board. Kimball served for more than seven years and had been named Chairman in September.

“Customers expect and deserve a seamless experience within our state transportation system, whether they are driving our roads, riding the rails, or flying in and out of our airports or taking delivery of cargo at our maritime facilities,” Davey said. “I look forward to continuing to work with our partners at Massport to ensure the safety and service of our customers and maximizing Massport’s unique ability to be an economic engine in the Commonwealth.”

 

[BostonUrbEx]

I get the feeling Davey will be running for governor, next thing you know.

 

[Oakley]

We will have to see how JAL does on their Boston-Tokyo Narita route before more Asian carriers join the fray. JAL and Korean are probably the best 2 carriers to run the service. I think by 2017 we could see non-stop flights to Seoul as well.

Emirates has been growing like crazy and show no signs of stopping. It's a matter of when, not if, for them to start Boston service. I think we will see Boston-Dubai non-stop flights in the next 3-4 years running at least 3-4 times a week. As far as aircraft go, it could be run with a few different planers: 77W, 345, 772 LR (I think would be the most likely), the 350 or even the 332. So essentially any of the long haul aircraft in their fleet could make the Boston run.

Pretty cool then. I think Emirates could draw from the Boston/New England market very well.

How is Iberia doing? I've heard that it wasn't the best performing route. Also, when did Icelandair go year-round? Didn't it use to be a seasonal route? Is it daily?

 

[whighlander]

Pretty cool then. I think Emirates could draw from the Boston/New England market very well.

How is Iberia doing? I've heard that it wasn't the best performing route. Also, when did Icelandair go year-round? Didn't it use to be a seasonal route? Is it daily?

Icelandic is a cargo flight (fish) masquerading as people

Yes it is daily year round with a great deal if you can take the time -- take Icelandic to many places in Europe -- you fly to Keflavik / Reykjavik and get to stay over 24 hours for no extra fee (you have to pay for the hotel) -- you can take one of the 4 to 12 hour tours and see a lot

as far as Emirates is concerned -- a very good match -- a significant fraction of the Gulf Money is managed on State and Federal Streets and quite a few of the Big Money crowd has places on the Cape, Islands or Maine

 

[Oakley]

Icelandic is a cargo flight (fish) masquerading as people

Yes it is daily year round with a great deal if you can take the time -- take Icelandic to many places in Europe -- you fly to Keflavik / Reykjavik and get to stay over 24 hours for no extra fee (you have to pay for the hotel) -- you can take one of the 4 to 12 hour tours and see a lot

as far as Emirates is concerned -- a very good match -- a significant fraction of the Gulf Money is managed on State and Federal Streets and quite a few of the Big Money crowd has places on the Cape, Islands or Maine

LOL on the fish cargo fish. I wonder what the passenger loads are.

 

[whighlander]

LOL on the fish cargo fish. I wonder what the passenger loads are.

oak -- I took Icelandic in 2009 to get to Berlin via a German Hub (BOS - KEF-MUC-BER) because of the and to minimize costs paid for by my German hosts

Our plane a 767 was full to the proverbial gills (LOL) with people about 150+ which caused some disruption as we were late in arriving 15 minutes to midnight and only enough security people were on hand to operate one screening line -- when you land at Keflavik you are considered to have arrived from a suspect airport despite the fact that you can only arrive from the EU, US, or Canada

Anyway coming or going you are subjected to the standard EU-style entry screening before they let you into the secure transit part of the airport -- Leif Erickson Terminal is a very very impressive facility in size and amenities for a country the population of Cambridge, Sommerville, Newton and Watertown combined -- the population of Keflavik city is about the size of Watertown with the largest city Reykjavik about the size of Cambridge

 

[Roxxma]

I assume when you write Icelandic, you mean Icelandair?

 

[erikyow]

Icelandair, for the past couple of years, has also offered a daylight flight (in addition to the daily, evening flight), leaving Boston in the early afternoon and arriving in Keflavik in the evening. Icelandair has been year-round (and, for the most part, daily) for as far back as I can remember (at least 10 years).

 

[kmp1284]

There was even a second carrier on the Keflavik route this past summer, Iceland Express I believe was the name. I'm not sure if either visited this year but in previous years, IcelandAir has sent in higher capacity B757-300's and B767-300's.

As for Emirates, I don't see it happening until they've taken delivery of the A350. My guess on future North American routes goes something like this.

DC - B773, eventually A380 - 2013
Chicago - B773 - 2013
Calgary - B772LR - 2014
Miami - B772LR, perhaps A380 in season - 2014
Montreal - B773 - 2015
Atlanta - B773 - 2015
Vancouver - B772LR - 2016
Detroit - A350 - 2016
Boston - A350- 2017
Edmonton - A350- 2017
Philadelphia - A350 - 2018+

 

[mass88]

There was even a second carrier on the Keflavik route this past summer, Iceland Express I believe was the name. I'm not sure if either visited this year but in previous years, IcelandAir has sent in higher capacity B757-300's and B767-300's.

As for Emirates, I don't see it happening until they've taken delivery of the A350. My guess on future North American routes goes something like this.

DC - B773, eventually A380 - 2013
Chicago - B773 - 2013
Calgary - B772LR - 2014
Miami - B772LR, perhaps A380 in season - 2014
Montreal - B773 - 2015
Atlanta - B773 - 2015
Vancouver - B772LR - 2016
Detroit - A350 - 2016
Boston - A350- 2017
Edmonton - A350- 2017
Philadelphia - A350 - 2018+

Nice layout of the cities, aircraft and dates.

However, I don't see Emirates entering Detroit, Atlanta, Calgary, Cancouver and Montreal before Boston. Dulles already has solid service to the Middle East with Qatar to Doha, Saudia Arabian Airlines to Jeddah and United to Kuwait, Bahrain, Doha (to begin in 2012) and Dubai. The main allure of Emirates is to be a hub for travel to/from Asia, especially India.

Calgary can't even support a flight to Frankfurt on Lufthansa.