Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

[Tombstoner]

Also, has anyone seen any ads for JAL's Narita-Logan service? I saw one for the first time today at the JFK/UMass top on the commuter rail platform.

There's also one in the Copley inbound station.

 

[Tombstoner]

Of course it's nice to connect the terminals, but I think the existing walkways look so Rube Goldberg and so much of an afterthought. An underground people mover makes so much more sense.

 

[Oakley]

This is a great move by Massport and one that I am sure JetBlue is in favor of.

One of the biggest complaints about connecting through Logan internationally, has to be the walk from E to the other terminals.


Also, has anyone seen any ads for JAL's Narita-Logan service? I saw one for the first time today at the JFK/UMass top on the commuter rail platform.

If the feed and connection banks are strong enough, it could see additional flights with JAL over time. Also, JetBlue could utilize it's partnerships with airlines with LH/LX, which has a stake in JetBlue.

Can JetBlue feed with other airlines at JFK? It seems like Logan could also be more easier and less hectic than JFK to connect through to-and-from both international and domestic flights.

 

[whighlander]

This is a great move by Massport and one that I am sure JetBlue is in favor of.

One of the biggest complaints about connecting through Logan internationally, has to be the walk from E to the other terminals.


Also, has anyone seen any ads for JAL's Narita-Logan service? I saw one for the first time today at the JFK/UMass top on the commuter rail platform.

Mass -- not sure if the new connections will solve that one:

In contrast to international Airports overseas where there are "Clean transit Lounges" -- Since in the US we don't have many international to International Connections -- When you arrive from an International destination you must clear passport, then pick-up your luggage and then and clear customs before you can go to your domestic connection

Thus if you arrive from Europe at Terminal E at Logan and want to connect via Jet Blue to say Texas -- you would have to clear customs and end-up outside of the secure zone then you could go to Jet Blue in terminal C where you would go through security

I presume that the connectors between C == E and C == B are for feeds in from Jet Blue in C (or the Nantucket express) to International destinations though E. I suppose that the connections to B would enable someone coming on American to connect to JAL or BA of Jet Blue

Need to know more about the other parts of the project such as where are the gates, etc.

 

[whighlander]

Of course it's nice to connect the terminals, but I think the existing walkways look so Rube Goldberg and so much of an afterthought. An underground people mover makes so much more sense.

Tomb -- you need to keep in mind that Logan is mostly an end of or beginning airport

Thus the primary traffic to / from the terminals is with the parking garages or the limos, taxis and buses (including pick-up/delivery with rental cars). For every 100 people boarding or deplaning at Logan -- I'm willing to bet only about 10 change airplanes -- mostly the Nantucket Express, etc. to / from a major carrier.

The only major connections are with domestic to / from international

the only caveat to the above analysis is the growing importance of the Jet Blue factor at Logan (most non-stop destinations -- about 40) as they use Logan as a miniHub as well as partnering with a number of airlines also at Logan:
American, Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Icelandic, Virgin Atlantic, Cape Air and now JAL

So I suspect that Jet Blue is fully involved and indeed could be investing in the after security connections

 

[stellarfun]

I think the 'clean' connection is so that a connecting passenger doesn't have to go through TSA again. Once one cleared customs, one could use the connection to go to a departure gate in C directly and avoid TSA. Presumably, baggage would be re-checked in Terminal E once customs had been cleared

 

[whighlander]

I think the 'clean' connection is so that a connecting passenger doesn't have to go through TSA again. Once one cleared customs, one could use the connection to go to a departure gate in C directly and avoid TSA. Presumably, baggage would be re-checked in Terminal E once customs had been cleared

Stel -- problem is with the structure of the Passport and Customs Hall -- its not really located where the "clean connections" are to be located

the customs hall is one down and closer to the roadway than where you would want to be for a connection to another departure

I think the connection is primarily designed to work the other way:

1) You arrive from Austin on Jet Blue at a gate on one of the Arms of Terminal C
2) just before you would go to baggage claim and be outside of the secure area -- you see a sign for International Flights
3) you take a right into the connector to Term E and end-up in the vicinity of the gates used by Southwest

This presupposes you have a boarding pass for the JAL to Tokyo

Given that the TSA and the Customs and Border Patrol run their own operations within DHS -- I doubt that the CBP would allow anyone to move freely from their area without a big door closing behind you -- which then also puts you outside the TSA secure zone

I see less benefit for the C to B connection as American and Jet Blue are mostly going to similar places such as Chicago and LA, Dallas though perhaps sometime to different airports

 

[whighlander]

Mea Culpa -- I think that I may have confused the issue by misparcing the Massport announcement:

so I'm doing what Massport should have done -- re-structuring it to read as I believe that it was intended to read [note i've not changed any of Massport's words just the order of some of the phrases]

This project includes;
1) a post security passenger connection between Terminals E and C,
The Terminal E to C secure connector component will include interior renovations to provide a secure passenger circulation corridor near the existing outbound bag room C3. It will connect Terminal E Gates 1A-1E to Gates 11 and higher at Terminal C, Pier B. An airside glass wall will provide natural light and orient passengers moving between the Terminals as well as improve passenger convenience.


2) and the two piers of Terminal B.
The Terminal B component includes 25 ticket counter positions, a relocated and
modified passenger checkpoint with additional passenger queuing, eight reconfigured departure lounges, a secure passenger connection to Pier B, concessions shell space, toilet rooms, a ground operations cab, in-line baggage screening systems and outbound bag makeup devices, enhanced inbound baggage systems and claim devices, vertical circulation, airside improvements including reconfigured apron and aircraft fueling systems and all necessary airline and tenant support spaces.

My new analysis:

1) I think I got this one right -- it will connect the Pier of Term C closest to Term E with the Gate 1 end of Term E so that you can come in on Jet Blue and staying "clean" continue on via Lufthansa, Icelandic, Virgin Atlantic, JAL or Ar Lingus -- all who are jet Blue partners
However on your return you still need to clear customs in Boston before you can go on and hence you will have to take the walk outside from E to C or else take the Bus and then go through the TSA screening

2) this is a Term B version of what has been done at Term C and which Massport has planned in some manner for about a decade -- I believe you will be able to go through security on either side of Term B and then connect to the gates on the other side while you stay "clean" It's mostly to allow the airlines to slide around using whichever of the Term B gates that they need as their fortunes change in the future (e.g. further shrinkage of AA)



Note -- I do not now believe that there will be a Term B to Term C secure passage -- just the existing un-secure connection outside of the TSA checkpoints


I might still be wrong -- but I think this fits the information which I've got

 

[Equilibria]

I see less benefit for the C to B connection as American and Jet Blue are mostly going to similar places such as Chicago and LA, Dallas though perhaps sometime to different airports

You're right, but the reason to do this isn't connections. Logan has already had some real problems dealing with consolidation of airlines, perhaps climaxing in the fact that United will have operations in 2 different terminals for the next several years. The cap on B is to accommodate United and US Airways in a single Star Alliance space and increase flexibility, but all the chips have not yet fallen when it comes to mergers. What happens, for instance, if JetBlue and American, who have become increasingly close, want to colocate?

Logan really ought to have concourses with new gate areas that connect B-C and A-B, as well as the planned C-E. That way, airlines could be flexibly accommodated however their needs change. The 5 (now 4) airline-specific terminal setup has been anachronistic since the end of regulation.

 

[whighlander]

You're right, but the reason to do this isn't connections. Logan has already had some real problems dealing with consolidation of airlines, perhaps climaxing in the fact that United will have operations in 2 different terminals for the next several years. The cap on B is to accommodate United and US Airways in a single Star Alliance space and increase flexibility, but all the chips have not yet fallen when it comes to mergers. What happens, for instance, if JetBlue and American, who have become increasingly close, want to colocate?

Logan really ought to have concourses with new gate areas that connect B-C and A-B, as well as the planned C-E. That way, airlines could be flexibly accommodated however their needs change. The 5 (now 4) airline-specific terminal setup has been anachronistic since the end of regulation.

Equi -- since this matter surfaced I've done more Googling and found more Secondary sources such as a Globe Article in October and some somewhat cryptic Massport documents

The Gist seems to be afterthe current projects are completed and the airlines finish their consolidation, growth and shrinkage (at least as currently projected) -- Circa late 2013 - early 2014

Terminal A -- Delta, possibly with other SkyTeam departures

Terminal B
Pier A and Pier B connected after Security around the corner with some new spaces:
US Air, Virgin, United, AA

Terminal C
Pier B connected post security to East end of Term E (revamped old D)
Jet Blue with Cape

Terminal E
Connected to C Pier B after security
Southwest all International Arrivals
most International Departures
Still unfunded but included in the 2012-2016 Capital Plan is the West Concourse for Term E ($108M estimate) with 3 more Widebody gates -- note that the baggage area for this expansion was constructed as part of the Term E phase 1

 

[stellarfun]

Demonstration flight of the 787 at Logan today, March 3.

http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1407808&srvc=business&position=3

 

[datadyne007]

Demonstration flight of the 787 at Logan today, March 3.

http://bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1407808&srvc=business&position=3

Awesome!! Great to see the Bos>Japan route started like this!

The part at the end made me laugh: "“There are some people who will walk down the jet bridge, get on the airplane and not know what kind of airplane they’re on,” he said. “Certainly the frequent flyer will know and care and aviation enthusiasts ... but most members of the traveling public will get on the plane and say it’s just another tube with wings.”"

I had this exact experience when I realized I was on a brand new 737-800 on AirBerlin a few weeks back. I was so excited. None of my friends cared or even knew they were on a Boeing. They even argued with me that it wasn't a Boeing. Nor did they notice the LED moodlighting and revolutionary pivoting overhead bins.

 

[Lrfox]

I'm excited. I'm flying the BOS-NRT route in mid May.

I have heard from some friends at the FAA that the 787 has already experienced some cracks in the composite material. I'm hoping it's nothing too serious and maintenance tweaks can fix the problem.

 

[whighlander]

Awesome!! Great to see the Bos>Japan route started like this!

The part at the end made me laugh: "“There are some people who will walk down the jet bridge, get on the airplane and not know what kind of airplane they’re on,” he said. “Certainly the frequent flyer will know and care and aviation enthusiasts ... but most members of the traveling public will get on the plane and say it’s just another tube with wings.”"

I had this exact experience when I realized I was on a brand new 737-800 on AirBerlin a few weeks back. I was so excited. None of my friends cared or even knew they were on a Boeing. They even argued with me that it wasn't a Boeing. Nor did they notice the LED moodlighting and revolutionary pivoting overhead bins.

data -- everyone with ears will know -- the internal pressure altitude is much lower than the standard transport so your ears will do a lot less poping. Note that by having a higher cabin pressure the airplane will do a lot less "popping" as well -- hence longer life to the airframe with less fatigue.

The reports about cracks relate to a manufacturing problem invoving spacers between sections -- Boeing is monitoing the handfull of planes already delivered and has changed the process to prevent it from being an issue in planes currently being manufactured including the BOS-NRT JAL plane

 

[whighlander]

Dreamliner arrives for a visit

from Globe article:

http://www.boston.com/business/gallery/boeing_787_dreamliner_at_logan?pg=3


Lots of pix -- here's a sample:

Capt. Randy Neville, the chief pilot for the 787 Program for Boeing, waved to waiting journalists as he walked down the stairs with Hiroyuki Hioka, senior vice president for Japan Airlines in the Americas.
Behind them were Boeing pilot Thomas Griffin, left; and Ed Freni, the director of aviation for MassPort.

Note the LED cabin lighting and the liquid crystal window screens -- no more mechanical shades

 

[palindrome]

Have these been posted?

Also, here is the ENF for the new bus depot being built to support the consolidated logan busing system.

http://www.massport.com/environment...onmental Filings/Green Bus Depot ENF 2010.pdf

 

[Ron Newman]

"Depot" meaning where the buses are stored, not where you catch the buses?

 

[whighlander]

Have these been posted?

Also, here is the ENF for the new bus depot being built to support the consolidated logan busing system.

http://www.massport.com/environment...onmental Filings/Green Bus Depot ENF 2010.pdf

Pdrome -- Have not seen anything that definitive previously only massing type fuzzies -- these have real people in them -- are these direct from Massport?

I was carefully scrutinizing the images for loose dogs or dogs with loose morals -- then I realized that perhaps TSA dogs are on duty keeping the local dogs in line

Most of my old Massport contacts have left the active list -- Do you have an "inside track" on what they are up to -- vis a vis new building, etc.?

 

[palindrome]

Do you have an "inside track" on what they are up to -- vis a vis new building, etc.?

I work for one of the rental companies.

"Depot" meaning where the buses are stored, not where you catch the buses?

yeah. This is where the new fleet will be stored/maintained when not in use.

 

[jass]

3 problems,

1, thats unbelievably ugly
2, like Miami, the rental car center should include a train connecting the terminals, the T stop and the RCC.
3, the bus depot etc seems like a TERRIBLE use of waterfront+ directly T accessible space. Yes, I know thats what the land is currently used for....change it.