MA Casino Developments

[AdamBC]

Promotional Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd5PBLt-wqw

 

[whighlander]

And we already have one of those to contend with in East Boston...

Beton -- I think some of the architecture is an "homage" to the 1930's original Suffolk Downs grandstand complex and of course its David Manfredi

An unsolicited suggestion -- with all that glass -- offer to build the and maintain the gardern under glass for the Mass Horticultureal Society which was supposed to be located where the occupyers were squatting

This would be a direct connect with the Marina Bay Sands complex in Singapore where they are building a new indoor botantic garden as a further attraction

While they are at it -- why not put up a Boston Revere's Ride -- a London Eye-type 300 foot diameter ferris wheel -- it would have a fantastic view from the Open Ocean, North Shore, Revere Beach to Logan and even Downtown Boston

 

[AdamBC]

Doesn't look like there'll be any connection to the blue line (bottom left corner of the render):

 

[whighlander]

Doesn't look like there'll be any connection to the blue line (bottom left corner of the render):

I'm sure that Caesars will run a shuttle for employees to the Blue Line although people certainly can and do walk from the T to the existing Suffolk Grandstand (about 1/2 mile walk)

 

[Equilibria]

Conventioneers and tourists are probably not going to end up here in droves, especially if it's a 10 minute walk from the T (as the site plan shows), out of the way of everything else, and looks like the Natick Mall with slightly better landscaping.

That precludes the possibility that conventions and hotels would run shuttle buses directly to it as a service to guests. I think they might if Caesar's allows it. That might actually be why the hotel on-site is so small.

 

[underground]

Conventioneers and tourists are probably not going to end up here in droves, especially if it's a 10 minute walk from the T (as the site plan shows)

Google Maps makes it look more like 5. Even if it's 10, that's too far? It can take that long to get from Kenmore to Fenway Park.

 

[Shepard]

Urggh, Nobody should be shuttled on buses from hotels in the urban core to this suburban casino strip. Don't you love how in the video it shows Newbury Street restaurants and lays the claim that this will be better for every person and every local business?

This should NOT have been planned as a resort-style casino. What's the point in that? You're basically asking tourists to spend their money at a closed-off out-of-the-way site that benefits a global multinational gaming operation, and in the processes keeps them away from local businesses and attractions. Madness.

 

[TheRifleman]

Riff the Caersar's folks will be the operartor of the hotel and casino part of the complex -- they are very very good at what they do - dare say World Class

None of 3,4, 5 will play a major role in the operations or inded be on the premises for long

Instead you will see a lot of opportunity for the blue collar -- who don't have much to do these days in a place with of the few blue collar traditional industries. Sure there will be some people who are gambling a significant portion of their disgetionary income -- but they already do such in places closer to home as well as the existing Suffolk (and even more so at the former Wonderland dog track)

the only part of their program which I think is soft so far is how to deal with the transportation issues and also why is the hotel so small. Although I don't think that if this thing is as successful as could be -- there can always be more rooms added in a second hotel on the complex

World Class or not
#3 and #4 run through every casino in VEGAS, Foxwoods and every other casino on the planet.
Who do you think runs the Casears Mr. Rogers & Co.? People are out for a good time. Drugs, Drinking, High-priced Hookers & the casino wants the money running through the house.

Which setups up for #5--CRIME outside the casino
The people your talking about losing their money at Suffolk/Wonderland tracks and at the lottery stand at STORE 24 are a fucking mess.

The casino will be first-rate- World Class but the area around it will be demoralized because a Casino as an industry only takes from the community and it doesn't redistribute the wealth to the community.

The only area that can support that type of depression is a very rich area that generates its income from other variable sources.
the Core of Boston has other major economic engines running on full steam to offset the Casino sucking in all the profits.

East Boston/Revere really lack other industries offsetting these areas.

 

[whighlander]

That precludes the possibility that conventions and hotels would run shuttle buses directly to it as a service to guests. I think they might if Caesar's allows it. That might actually be why the hotel on-site is so small.

I'm sure that Caesars will run limos for some and shuttle vans for others from the bigger hotels in both the Back Bay and also in the vicinity of the BCEC

aside from the opportunity to connect to the existing grandstand -- I'm sure that just as there are no ATMs on the Suffolk Downs property (State Law) -- probably the only shuttle from the Blue Line will be for employees

 

[whighlander]

World Class or not
#3 and #4 run through every casino in VEGAS, Foxwoods and every other casino on the planet.
Who do you think runs the Casears Mr. Rogers & Co.?

....The casino will be first-rate- World Class but the area around it will be demoralized because a Casino as an industry only takes from the community and it doesn't redistribute the wealth to the community.

Riff -- Casinos are not really a whole lot differnt than:

high-end movie theaters
Symphony Hall
Fenway Park
Outlet Malls
Museum of Fine Arts
skating on the Frog Pond with your significant other and having a tall cup of hot chocolate

All of the above provide people with a place to go and relax and spend some discretionary money -- we don't need any of them to survive physically -- but some people find each of the above as pleasant recreations and a way to get a release from day-to-day work

Most people don't go to casinos to break the bank -- they go to blow a few tens $ to hundred $ and have some fun -- similar to the list above

My entire history in casinos dating to 1994 in Vegas -- happens to be slightly $ positive because I won 80$ on a 5 cent slot machine at McCaran Airport (i carried 1600 nickels in a bag onto the plane) while waiting for my flght home to Boston from an exhibit I ran at a trade show in Vegas -- all the other times -- in all of the other casinos -- I've taken about $20 and played until it was gone

 

[Beton Brut]

@Beton Brut, I can't speak for everyone, but personally I'd say it's because I haven't seen an anti-casino argument yet that didn't come of as either a) garden variety NIMBY-sim or b) Cary Nation Neo-Prohibitionism.

There's nothing "garden variety" about my opposition to this proposal, or to the expanded gambling legislation. Have you read the legislation? Have you considered the legislation's implications to the Lottery? Are you of the opinion that Massachusetts, a state with a rich history of political patronage and corruption, can do this "right?" And, in a few years, when it turns into a fiscal shit-show, who cleans it up? The casinos, or the taxpayers?

the only part of their program which I think is soft so far is how to deal with the transportation issues and also why is the hotel so small. Although I don't think that if this thing is as successful as could be -- there can always be more rooms added in a second hotel on the complex

Use your head Westy -- the hotel is small because no sensible person would consider this site a "resort." Note that the site-plan omits the oil tank farm. This is a "convenience" casino. Consider:

Why do casino operators and the public officials who support them cling to the “destination resort” message? Because the frame polls well, significantly better than describing it accurately as casinos and slot parlors. The public conjures nice restaurants, golf courses and high-end retail as opposed to the most predatory business in America.

There are two different kinds of markets that determine the main difference in customers. Here’s the money quote from former Harrah's Atlantic City executive Dave Jonas, who recently helped launch Parx Casino just outside of Philly in Bensalem, PA (source: Jackpot: Harrah’s Winning Secrets for Customer Loyalty by Robert Shook, pg. 108-109)

“Industry people talk about the categories of Indian gaming, riverboats and land-based casinos, but it really boils down to being either destination resorts or frequency markets. Atlantic City is a frequency market and we attract frequency customers. These customers come 40 to 50 times a year (in 2011 at Parx it’s 200 times - Les) and stay four hours to 1.2 days. On the other hand, Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe are destination resorts, whose customers stay four to six days. Consequently, both kinds of customers have totally different spending habits. In Vegas, for example, they spend more money on food and will spend $100 on a show ticket without blinking an eye. In Atlantic City, people don’t like to spend $10 to see a show. They expect it to be free. They’ll play $150 to $200 in a four-hour period and they’re gone. In Vegas, it might take four days to get that same money from a customer. There are few similarities between destination resorts and frequency markets.”​

Source, Les Bernal​

Beton -- I think some of the architecture is an "homage" to the 1930's original Suffolk Downs grandstand complex and of course its David Manfredi.

In form, the hotel calls to mind one of Wright's Solar Hemicycle homes with a case of extreme giantism.

An unsolicited suggestion -- with all that glass -- offer to build the and maintain the gardern under glass for the Mass Horticultureal Society which was supposed to be located where the occupyers were squatting

Why would a multinational corporation with $22 billion in debt "offer" to build a $200 million attraction 4 miles from their facility?

 

[Bubbybu]

Billion dollars for that? Must be doing a lot of pocket greasing...

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Like some other similar casions I have seen and worked on. I would assume the small hotel is a tester to see how many people want to stay, and to comp high rollers. When and if it does weel, it's easy to expand a hotel with all that acreage.

 

[whighlander]

Why would a multinational corporation with $22 billion in debt "offer" to build a $200 million attraction 4 miles from their facility?

beton -- you misread my post

Not to build the garden under glass at south station -- build it at Suffolk along with the Paul Revere's Ride -- aka Ferris Wheel

As I mentioned the Marina Bay Sands in Singapore today has hotel, casino, convention center, shopping center and a science museum all integrated into one complex -- now they are building residences a botanic garden and subway stop

Over the next 10 to 20 years Suffolk could grow and perhaps eventually the track might go away --they need some additonal attractions

 

[SeamusMcFly]

I would hope this actually helps the racing flourish as opposed to go away. Adds some class, and sets it apart from other casinos.

 

[DominusNovus]

Question: What are the rows of rectangular buildings NE of the track? Would those be an option for locating the Casino? It could be effectively adjacent to the Beachmont stop, and have a nice pretty skyway to connect the station to the Casino.

 

[kmp1284]

I think the goal here is to attract the sort of people who don't depend on the T to get around.

 

[Shepard]

Question: What are the rows of rectangular buildings NE of the track? Would those be an option for locating the Casino? It could be effectively adjacent to the Beachmont stop, and have a nice pretty skyway to connect the station to the Casino.

I thought about that too. It would also integrate better with the grid. Instead, they choose the suburban sprawl side, furthest from transit.

KMP - not sure how many tourists or conventioneers will want to hop in a taxi or hire a limo, or go out on the fixed schedule of a shuttle bus.
Anyway, guess what? Newbury St is t accessible and the high end stores are not overrun by bums.

 

[DominusNovus]

I think the goal here is to attract the sort of people who don't depend on the T to get around.

Other than the very neighborhood in which this Casino is proposed to be built, doesn't the Boston rail system woefully underserve the poorer sections of the metro-area? The Orange line has a couple of 'poor area' stops, and the Red line has the Ashmont branch. Other than the Blue line, everything else generally connects the nicer parts of Boston.

 

[gyro]

Question: What are the rows of rectangular buildings NE of the track? Would those be an option for locating the Casino? It could be effectively adjacent to the Beachmont stop, and have a nice pretty skyway to connect the station to the Casino.

That is in Revere and they want to keep it all in Boston where the rubber stamp is waiting.