Manchester Infill & Small Developments

Yea the rail project will be great for Manchester, I think.
I'm not very familiar with Manchester though, is that NHIA a new building currently under construction? Its also good to hear about the money towards improving housing.

I'm going down to visit Manchester this weekend hopefully, I will try and get some pictures for everyone!
 
Josh said:
Yea the rail project will be great for Manchester, I think.
I'm not very familiar with Manchester though, is that NHIA a new building currently under construction? Its also good to hear about the money towards improving housing.

I'm going down to visit Manchester this weekend hopefully, I will try and get some pictures for everyone!
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yes
 
Patrick said:
Thanks for the update. When Portland was a dump, the city tried to clean things up by doing the same exact thing (creating an arts district, which was anchored by a similar sort of institution, "The Maine College of Art" or MeCA on Congress) and it worked. I think the new building is nice looking in Manchester, I didn't realize it was so tall. 8 stories?

The rail should also be a VERY good thing for Manchester. would it be commuter or leisure travel? I wonder if it would pump people out of manchester to work in Massachusetts rather than the other way around (if its commuter). Either way I'm sure it will be a good thing for growth.
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I'd say most likely commuter. I did little bit more research on this rail campaign and found a facebook group supporting it (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=70851999816) and a website (http://www.nhbti.org/) Interesting stuff.
 
Great to see that the NHIA building is under construction. I really hope the rail becomes a reality. Manch continues to move in the right direction by becoming a better city each year. I hope they can get going on the Gas Light District off of Elm St.
 
the Gas Light District off Elm St.? What is this project? It sounds interesting.
 
The Gas Light District is old industrial area directly across the street from the Verizon. That area has a few bars in there already, but the city is supposed to improve the sidewalks, install new lighting and install some deocative arches. There was a city master plan that suggested this area be the future home of bars, jazz clubs, and restaurants. At least we have a few bars in there now and I have a good feeling about this place. If the train station is built, it will be right next door. If I can find the original plans outlining the district, I'll be sure to post it.
 
That sounds like a pretty good idea for the area!
 
Yea those looks great. The whole project seems great. Did you say it was making progress?
 
It definitely is now because Carol Shea-Porter secured $1 million for the project in July. It seems that everything is in place to keep the project going.
 
Hi, new to the site, btw it's great. I'm from Manchester, and love it, and I really want to see it keep growing. This city has so much potential; it's not always utilized in the correct ways though. It really kills me to think that Manchester is relatively the same size of a lot of New England Cities in terms of population, like New Haven, or Hartford. Has one of the busiest airports behind Logan in New England, is in an incredibly tax friendly state, that has been voted five years in a row the most livable, but can't seem to get itself together to attract a large amount of business, entertainment, or new residents. Of course the city is in much better shape than it was twenty years ago, thanks to Mayors Wieczorek, and Baines, who brought Manchester into a short lived renaissance from say the mid 90s to 2006, but the current mayor has done nothing to improve the city. Most of the plans that are talked about in this thread have been in development for at least five years or more, and now all of them have hit a wall. The only projects currently going strong in the city now are the renovation of the Pandora Building, and The Elliot at Rivers Edge. The later has been under construction for well over a year and not even a drop of cement has been poured. With elections coming up on Nov 3rd, I hope the next mayor does his part to help Manchester compete with its neighbors in the region.
 
There are reasons Manchester is smaller compared to cities with equal population. First, many people in its suburbs actually travel to Massachusetts or Boston every day, rather than Manchester. The fact is, Manchester operates as sort of both a suburb and a central city both at the same time. So, while its residents may not leave every day, the people in the towns surrounding the city (typically the more wealthy, educated, etc.) probably do, at least more than for other cities similarly sized. So, you see, Manchester DOES have business, it just so happens that it developed in Massachusetts rather than in the city itself. Also, some of the "other cities" to which you compare manchester in the region were at one time much larger than they are now in terms of population. There populations today represent the urban shell left over after white flight and urban renewal. Manchester, on the other hand, is at its peak population. So it is sort of like comparing apples and oranges to make some comparisons the way you have. New England is strange in that population doesn't always serve as an accurate indication of urbanity. Thirdly, the airport in manchester is an outlier for Boston, which has limited space to grow. If I am not mistaken, it is part of a deal with Boston which also includes a deal with Providence's airport to relocate some passenger service to those two satellite locations. Not a bad thing, but you have to remember the passengers coming and going through Manch are not all coming and going TO Manch. They are merely using it as a base from which to travel, and nothing more (sometimes). That said, you have to look at the fact that manch has an impressive skyline, a new arena, etc. all things which work in its favor. I think the town is still by and large working class, which is not bad, but it needs to attract more of a creative class, sort of like the people starting to fill in the mills (segway guy etc...other entrepreneurs). How it can do this I have no idea. I think it is FAR better off than many other post industrial new england mill towns. FAR BETTER. but you have to keep things in perspective. Remember: proximity to Boston = filtering out of people during the day. Mill city = large blue collar class of people not necessarily concerned about the aesthetics of the city. large airport = misleading because the passengers stem from new england travelers as a whole, not merely NH visitors. I think it has a lot going for it, and should continue to clean itself up. before new business investment occurs, I think I would like to see more parks (like that along the river), more bike lanes, more walking trails, more trees, and less used cars sales places. These are small things which in the aggregate could give the city a more welcoming vibe, and together result in increased and renewed commitment and investment to the town. I think it takes a coordinated effort like that of Baines to bring a city up. Unless you have that, you are right, the city will remain prisoner to its industrial past, and subject to the conditions that normally prevail in mill cities. there needs to be a renewed effort in consciously trying to make sure that the opposite occurs. the population base is there. the location is there. everything is in place. it just needs more of a concentrated effort. Who are the mayoral candidates this year?
 
Great posts! I agree with you Patrick that Manchester needs more of a creative class. Manchester is slowly getting better in that sense, but it's still a working class town for the most part. I think that once the economy rebounds, Manchester will see a lot of growth in the downtown area that has lagged recently. The Millyard is a gem and I hope that the riverwalk is linked together. I'd love to see more restaurants, bars, and shopping down there.

Guinta has been a useless mayor unfortunately. He moved here from New Jersey not that long ago and just used the city as a stepping stone to run for Congress. I don't know really much about the current candidates, Mike Roy and Ted Gatsas.
 
Yeah I definitely agree that the economy has had an impact on the town as well. It should only be getting better for the town now.
 
Wow, thanks for all the responses. Considering the last post on this thread before mine was in July, I figured it would be a while before anyone took a glance at it. I definitely see what you mean Patrick by the urban shell; most of the other cities comparable in population have at one time or another been quite a bit bigger. That said, I think now is the perfect time for Manch to really step up its game to compete for those companies that are moving there headquarters or opening up new branches, since the playing field has now become a little more equal. It is unusual to think that Manchester is at the largest point it?s ever been at, and that we really didn?t experience the ?white flight? as you called it. I always here people say that Manchester doesn?t really have a skyline, so thanks for the compliment. I think a reason for that is since the mills have been completely overhauled, there hasn?t been a need to build more offices in the downtown. With the completion of the Pandora Mill renovation, every mill in the city will have been gutted and opened up for use. Doing this has given the city hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space in the mill yard. It?s starting to run out though; almost every one of them is thankfully occupied. This has brought a lot of white-collar workers to the city, but most of them live in the surrounding towns, like Londonderry or Hooksett, and especially Bedford, Manchester?s wealthy neighbor. As for Manch being a sort of edge city on Boston?s metro, I do see that, but I don?t totally agree that the people living in Manchu?s surrounding towns commute down to Mass. If they do commute, I think most either go down to Salem or Nashua, up to Concord, or one of the towns in between the triangle all three of those create around Manchester. People who live in Nashua or Salem and their respective bordering towns definitely commute into Mass; I just think that Manchester and its border towns are too far north. On a good weekday morning it takes at least an hour to get to Boston, or maybe even more, and on the weekends about 40 minutes. Manchester itself falls out of the Boston metro area, while Nashua and Salem are within it. We definitely do need more of a creative or younger class. There are a decent amount of schools just outside the city, such as St Anselm or SNHU, both of which are within 5 or 6 miles of downtown. In the downtown we have The New Hampshire Institute of Art, and they have just built a mix use building that will have dorms for up to 100 students, and they are growing rather quickly. Finally, we do need a great mayor who is really committed to see the see grow in the right direction. Like ManchVegas said, Guinta was really useless, all he did for the city was add 20 more cops to the police fore, and he?s been mayor for four years. Mark Roy, and Ted Gatsas, the two candidates for mayor, both seem to really care for the city. Gatsas is big on small business growing in the city and giving the city more of a small town neighborhoodish feel. On the other hand, Roy is really into the school system, which might be a better place to start right now considering the school district is one of the worst in the state. Both though want to see the southern end of Elm St redeveloped and for The Elliot at Rivers Edge to finish up. Whoever wins will be better for Manch than what we currently have. So sorry this post was so long, I just have too much to say haha.

Thanks
 
I like reading your comments. They are not too long.

I think, technically speaking, Manchester IS within the Boston Metro. It's not Greater Boston (inside 128) but it is Metro Boston. as is Worcester, Providence, and even the southern tip of Maine. Metro Boston is actually quite large and multi state. That said, you may have a point about Manchester commuters. But, think of it this way: if nashua people commute to northern massachusetts, then there are more places in and around nashua for people in Manchester to commute to. Everything shifts south. Even if people in Manchester don't commute everyday to downtown Boston per se, it is a known fact that people in Southern NH DO commute to Massachusetts, in one way or another. Many of them hopped over the border to evade taxes, but still earn their money in Massachusetts, which by virtue of being closer to Boston has better jobs. Obviously not everyone in Manchester or even southern NH for that matter commutes to Boston or even massachusetts, but what I guess my main point is, is that there are more people (way more) in southern NH than actually work there during the day. In another town, Portland or Burlington, for example, there are no major cities nearby, and not even major towns (like Nashua) so everybody goes to one central place. Conversely, in NH, there are major towns (Concord as well) and a major city real close by. The city may be an hour away, but it sprawls like all metropolises and its jobs extend northwards beyond its municipal boundaries.

I think the school system and the art college in general would be a good place to start. and you are right, the mills have a major impact on the skyline because they effect the demand for new office space (by glutting the market with a huge supply). nothing will grow up until the mills are filled horizontally. But manchester has a lot of good things going for it. It just needs to focus its efforts more and really cultivate an attitude of pride. That goes a long way. Look at cities that are proud of themselves and comparre them to cities that people just stay in for convenience. notice a big difference? You should. I'm thinking Boston versus somewhere like Hartford.
 
Ya I totally agree that plenty of people in southern NH commute down into Mass, I can?t deny that at all. What I wish though is that the city would be able to attract enough business to try and counter act the job flow into Mass, and keep the New Hampshire workers in the state, even if it only encompassed the work force in the towns surrounding Manchester. I personally believe that the city is large enough to hold its own in getting the jobs and the business to come here, and our proximity to Boston very well aids in that, as does our airport. Like how you said, Patrick, that Manchester acts as a ?suburb and central city?. Manchester has to use the closeness it has to Boston to its advantage, and also be independent. The city almost has to market itself to companies, there are plenty of corporations that have branches or offices that are outside of a major city because its cheaper and more convenient, so why can?t Manchester be one of those places. We may be farther from Boston than some of the larger towns on the north, or south shore in Mass that companies may turn to when they want to stay out of Boston, but we have things those places don?t. Manchester has to work with what it has, and what it has is a location in a very tax friendly state, plenty of areas of town that would welcome redevelopments, and an airport that always terms itself as ?the friendly alternative to Logan?. I guess a pipe dream for me would be that Manchester would have a new redevelopment boom, for example like Providence. Providence was run down for years, filled with crime, and lost a dramatic amount of its population. Now, I think it?s a beautiful city, and it only took like 15 or so years to bring it back from where it was as a not so great place, to put it lightly, in the early 90s. Their downtown is gorgeous. I guess I just want Manch to get a boom of a renaissance, and that?s something if the city plays its cards right could happen, as the economy bounces back. Really the only place to go from here economically is up, so why not use it to our advantage. There may not be a huge comeback for a few years, in that time the city really needs to get its bones together. The school district needs a major overhaul, so do the city services. Those are things that if you work efficiently can have dramatic change in a two-year term the mayor, alderman, and school board are elected to. If you look at a map, Boston has three mid sized cities to its south, Providence, east, Worcester, and north, Manchester. Even though the first two were once much larger, they both stand out in New England as center for business, and etc. So everyone else got their boom, why can?t Manchester?
 
Muns1990 said:
Ya I totally agree that plenty of people in southern NH commute down into Mass, I can?t deny that at all. What I wish though is that the city would be able to attract enough business to try and counter act the job flow into Mass, and keep the New Hampshire workers in the state, even if it only encompassed the work force in the towns surrounding Manchester. I personally believe that the city is large enough to hold its own in getting the jobs and the business to come here, and our proximity to Boston very well aids in that, as does our airport. Like how you said, Patrick, that Manchester acts as a ?suburb and central city?. Manchester has to use the closeness it has to Boston to its advantage, and also be independent. The city almost has to market itself to companies, there are plenty of corporations that have branches or offices that are outside of a major city because its cheaper and more convenient, so why can?t Manchester be one of those places. We may be farther from Boston than some of the larger towns on the north, or south shore in Mass that companies may turn to when they want to stay out of Boston, but we have things those places don?t. Manchester has to work with what it has, and what it has is a location in a very tax friendly state, plenty of areas of town that would welcome redevelopments, and an airport that always terms itself as ?the friendly alternative to Logan?. I guess a pipe dream for me would be that Manchester would have a new redevelopment boom, for example like Providence. Providence was run down for years, filled with crime, and lost a dramatic amount of its population. Now, I think it?s a beautiful city, and it only took like 15 or so years to bring it back from where it was as a not so great place, to put it lightly, in the early 90s. Their downtown is gorgeous. I guess I just want Manch to get a boom of a renaissance, and that?s something if the city plays its cards right could happen, as the economy bounces back. Really the only place to go from here economically is up, so why not use it to our advantage. There may not be a huge comeback for a few years, in that time the city really needs to get its bones together. The school district needs a major overhaul, so do the city services. Those are things that if you work efficiently can have dramatic change in a two-year term the mayor, alderman, and school board are elected to. If you look at a map, Boston has three mid sized cities to its south, Providence, east, Worcester, and north, Manchester. Even though the first two were once much larger, they both stand out in New England as center for business, and etc. So everyone else got their boom, why can?t Manchester?
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On the contrary, Manchester has had its boom. Just like providence, Manchester was not doing too well a while back. Now, it has converted mill space, cleaner streets, new headquarters, and the best thing of all recently, the airport and arena developments. And Providence and Worcester also have two schools that are much more nationally respected than St. A's...not that St. A's is bad--not at all. Providence also built a mall downtown, which worked out well. But, Providence is still a dump in my opinion. Sure, it has been revitalized, but I think manchester has more going for it. Providence is way bigger than Manchester, and way more industrial, and way more dirty. It is a different city altogether. It depends on what you like in a city. Many people would disagree with my assessment of Providence, but many more (especially those unaware of its recent successes and renaissance) would not disagree with me. Providence is not all bad, but would you really want to live there?

It takes people like you to get involved in city politics and investment to bring a place up. I agree manchester has the potential.

The way I see it, jobs developed first in NH with the mills. Those jobs evaporated. But yet, the city continued to grow. why? Because as jobs were expanding in metro Boston, the people who were working them were relocating to Southern NH for a more relaxed pace. You can think of it one of two ways: either a large portion of southern NH's jobs are located in northern massachusetts, or a large portion of northern massachusetts employees choose to actually go to bed at night in southern NH. The key now is to make sure from here on out the population base and the employment base develop in tandem. I don't see why they can't, so I agree with you.

New growth policies and strategic investment actions by the city would help indicate to the private sector that manchester is business friendly.
 
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