Mandarin Oriental | 776 Boylston St | Back Bay

Re: Mandarin Oriental

I can't comment on when it opened, but I agree that the Mandarin is overpriced, and that its style is not very groundbreaking. I feel like some people associate money with internationalism...from a lot of the advertising and hype the idea is something like "London and New York have one, and now Boston does...we must have some of the cosmopolitanism that those cities do..." WRONG. the fact that the Mandarin Corporation recognized untapped wealth in Boston does not necessarily mean that Boston has "made it." I mean, I am an unwavering supporter of this city, but shouldn't there be higher standards for being a global city than "we have such-and-such luxury hotel chain now?"
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

OUCH....The Mandarin gets roasted

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/articles/2008/10/07/the_boil_on_boylston_street/


About two weeks ago, I was at the Hynes Convention Center and ate supper across Boylston Street. As I emerged from the restaurant, a monstrous, shadowy cliff rose up in front of me, creating a dank urban canyon where there had been open space before. And then I saw the open fan logo "greeting" me from the fa?ade.

The Mandarin Oriental, Boston. Ugh.

A few years ago, I saw a model of this building at the offices of CBT/Childs Bertman Tseckares architects, which prompted me to call partner Richard Bertman - he of the notorious R2D2 building - "the butcher of Boylston Street." After my recent nocturnal encounter, I returned to see the Mandarin in the daylight. I still hated it. The opposite side of Boylston, with its broad, active sidewalk, has four wonderful outdoor cafes, buildings that rise only a few stories, and some nicely scaled signature pieces, like the new Apple store, and the Planet Hollywood building, now Priscilla of Boston.

But across the street, on the Mandarin side - nothing. The brick and limestone mountain rises 155 feet straight up off the narrow sidewalk. For a full block and a half, the Mandarin offers nothing to the passerby, except perhaps an envious glance at how the other half lives. There is a nondescript hotel entrance, or you can peek into the "M" bar ("artisan cheeses . . . Asian-style tapas") or into L'Espalier, a restaurant where actual humans can't afford to eat.

My three-word architectural review of the Mandarin: Gag, gag, gag.

How did this happen? I thought the Boston Redevelopment Authority had a policy forbidding the "canyonization" of Boylston Street. Years ago the BRA stared down developers who wanted to plant Manhattan-style skyscrapers across from the New England Life building. What resulted - Philip Johnson's 500 Boylston and Robert Stern's 222 Berkeley - is far from perfect, but their huge towers are set well back from the street.

Not so the Mandarin, which juts forward to within a few inches of its property line. (The 15-foot-wide sidewalk is mandated by city zoning.) "Of course we want to avoid canyonization," explains BRA senior architect David Carlson. "If you're standing on the hotel's side of Boylston, there's not so much massing." Well, sure. That's because you can't see the Oriental!

Appearances notwithstanding, I am a fair-minded person. I phoned CBT and told them what I was up to. Cue the nightmare scenario: I had to walk the length of Boylston Street with Alfred Wojciechowski, who designed the Mandarin, and, coincidentally, the more interesting Planet Hollywood building across the street. It gets worse. Wojciechowski is young, ebullient, articulate and . . . Canadian. No fair! Everyone knows I can't resist the blandishments of the Frozen North.

Wojciechowski could charm the birds from the trees. As we start walking west from the Women's Educational and Industrial Union building, he likens the Boylston vista to a cake studded with tasty raisins. "Now we are walking through the batter," is one of his more memorable quotations. The raisins are the architectural gems, like the old Shreve, Crump & Low building and Old South Church. The batter is what he calls "background architecture," nothingburger buildings that you don't even notice are there.

As we approach the Mandarin from Copley Square, Wojciechowski has me half-convinced that the Prudential Tower and the rest of the ghastly "build out" - the urban renewal-like Avalon Bay towers, R2D2, 101 Huntington - are a sophisticated experiment in post-Le Corbusier modernism. Oh, come on. I call the Pru and its environs "reverse Dresden," meaning it's a part of the world that should have been fire-bombed, compared to Dresden, which should have been spared.

Wojciechowski and I halt at the corner of Fairfield and Boylston, in the lee of his monstrous creation. "Alfred," I say, "Can't you feel how we are hemmed in here?"

"Alex," he assures me. "We're not hemmed in. We are enclosed."

He did show me some nice touches. There are at least six public cut-throughs transecting the Oriental complex, which would allow you to enter the hotel from Boylston and keep on walking south to Huntington Avenue. When he says, "We have extended the city two blocks to the west," that's partially true. There is a new nexus of "action" west of Copley Square - stores, apartments, lodging, and restaurants - anchored by the Sheraton, the Shops at Prudential Center, and the Mandarin.

Is the Mandarin the ugliest building in Boston? Let's be reasonable - it's not Harbor Towers, a creation of the talented Henry Cobb, who also gave us the John Hancock Tower. Many great architects build one bad building, Mr. Wojciechowski, and I am afraid this one is yours.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

Classic NIMBY nonsense...the Mandarin replaced "open space"??!! He makes it sound like little children were flying kites in a manicured park. That area was an ugly swath of cement and an unsightly parking garage entrance. His piece reflects the classic suburbanite disdain for density and mindless devotion to "open space."

That said, Mandarin is by no means perfect. The facade materials are cheap, the storefront facades ARE too uniform (He's right there) and the massing does feel a bit heavy. Nonetheless, on balance I think this is a good project.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

Alex Beam being passed off as a "taste maker" more or less sums up everything that's wrong with the Globe. He hasn't realized yet that hating everything is not the same thing as having an opinion.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

It is highly flawed but it's not a total disaster and the city can live with it considering there was nothing there but concrete and black top prior.....it's not like the Harbor Towers or some of the other buildings which are so visible and such a blemish on the city that they must simply be destroyed for the great good of Boston

Still...it seems like CBT used up all its juice in designing 111 Huntington....and why did they get rid of those triangular supports on Russia Wharf and enclose the frame at the top? Those touches made the original design quite nice imo...now it's just meh...ok...Was is the developer's idea to draw up a redesign?

russia-wharf.jpg
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

Sounds to me like another dirtbag Boston old timer who's just pissed off that he'll never be able to afford it with his lousy newspaper job.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

The raisins are the architectural gems, like the old Shreve, Crump & Low building and Old South Church.

At least some people understand this.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

The myth of the canyon is spreading like a cancer
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

bobbybu said:
But across the street, on the Mandarin side - nothing. The brick and limestone mountain rises 155 feet straight up off the narrow sidewalk....... Years ago the BRA stared down developers who wanted to plant Manhattan-style skyscrapers across from the New England Life building. What resulted - Philip Johnson's 500 Boylston and Robert Stern's 222 Berkeley - is far from perfect, but their huge towers are set well back from the street.

Wrong and partly wrong. The Mandarin rises straight up off the sidewalk, but NOT for 155 feet. There's setbacks up top. And the Johnson tower is set well back from the street, but not so the Stern, which is only about 40 feet back from the streetwall.

Wojciechowski and I halt at the corner of Fairfield and Boylston, in the lee of his monstrous creation. "Alfred," I say, "Can't you feel how we are hemmed in here?"

"Alex," he assures me. "We're not hemmed in. We are enclosed."

Obviously, I agree with Wojciechowski that the feeling is one of cozy enclosure rather than overbuilt hell. So I must ask: what do you think is the perfect height for Boylston Street?
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

It is highly flawed but it's not a total disaster and the city can live with it considering there was nothing there but concrete and black top prior.....it's not like the Harbor Towers or some of the other buildings which are so visible and such a blemish on the city that they must simply be destroyed for the great good of Boston

Still...it seems like CBT used up all its juice in designing 111 Huntington....and why did they get rid of those triangular supports on Russia Wharf and enclose the frame at the top? Those touches made the original design quite nice imo...now it's just meh...ok...Was is the developer's idea to draw up a redesign?

russia-wharf.jpg

Wait, which design of Russia Wharf is being built?
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

^ I agree. Figure either 10 stories office or 12 stories residential.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

I never really understood this fear of "canyonization" on Boylston. And while I agree the Mandarin is far from perfect, its completion has helped begin to transform Boylston from auto strip to what its always promised to be: Boston's premier urban boulevard.

IMO, it is certainly an improvement over what was there. The Mandarin's site is outlined in red:

original_mandarin_site.jpg
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

I never really understood this fear of "canyonization" on Boylston. And while I agree the Mandarin is far from perfect, its completion has helped begin to transform Boylston from auto strip to what its always promised to be: Boston's premier urban boulevard.

IMO, it is certainly an improvement over what was there. The Mandarin's site is outlined in red:

Wow, it's been so long that I forgot there was originally an overpass from L&T to the pedestrian plaza overlooking the duck boats.

The pedestrian streetwall is a weak concept that was poorly executed and has plenty of warts up close, but from a distance the Mandarin looks good.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

::ahem:: and that's exactly what people will say ten years from now after SC&L is torn down. "Remember, there was some kind of building there, I think I liked it."

People's memories are short. That's why we have cameras.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

Boston does not have canyons. Go check out Park Avenue or Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan - now those are canyons.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

We don't have canyons. We have ravines. Smaller, and not as pretty.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

That's the part I think is weird. I realize it must be simple economics, but I don't understand why the developer wants the bigger building on Boylston. The office on Boylston should be 10-12 stories; the residential on Exeter should be ... I dunno, 24-25 stories? At least the height of the neighboring rental buildings. I'd support it even more than I do now.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

That's the part I think is weird. I realize it must be simple economics, but I don't understand why the developer wants the bigger building on Boylston. The office on Boylston should be 10-12 stories; the residential on Exeter should be ... I dunno, 24-25 stories? At least the height of the neighboring rental buildings. I'd support it even more than I do now.

There are PruPac agreements and perhaps zoning (? anyone, clarify?) re: shadows on Copley Plaza due to new construction at the Prudential Center. This is what Rep Walz is working very hard to eliminate, and will talk about for hours and hours if you let her.

After one of her 5 minute lectures on shadows, I said kinda under my breath but loud enough for her to hear, "We could put up giant Gro-Lites to mitigate the shadows!"

She hasn't really spoken to me since ...


Anyway, the height is easier to do on Boylston than Exeter.
 
Re: Mandarin Oriental

I never really understood this fear of "canyonization" on Boylston. And while I agree the Mandarin is far from perfect, its completion has helped begin to transform Boylston from auto strip to what its always promised to be: Boston's premier urban boulevard.
Other candidates: much-too-wide Cambridge Street, transit-served Massachusetts Avenue from MIT to Arlington, Huntington Avenue to Heath Street.

Also: Columbus Avenue, Washington Street to Dudley?

And certainly: The Greenway!
 

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