MBTA Construction Projects

Re: T construction news

Does this mean the MBTA will stop trying to kill off the commuter boats every time they reach a funding crisis?

Massport and/or the Steamship Authority could always come in and take over. They would be in a much better position to run the ferries and possibly expand the routes. Just as long as the fares got Charlied (they aren't, much like commuter rail), it really doesn't matter who's running it.
 
Re: T construction news

Massport and/or the Steamship Authority could always come in and take over. They would be in a much better position to run the ferries and possibly expand the routes. Just as long as the fares got Charlied (they aren't, much like commuter rail), it really doesn't matter who's running it.

I always though MassPort would be the natural fit to take over the ferries. is there any reason they wouldn't want to if given the chance?
 
Re: T construction news

I always though MassPort would be the natural fit to take over the ferries. is there any reason they wouldn't want to if given the chance?
I remember there was talk of this last time the MBTA wanted to pull the plug, but there were concerns that Massport might not be able to fund it, since it could count as using airport money for a non-airport purpose? IIRC they said they were going to talk to the FAA to see if they could get permission, but then the T relented and the issue kind of disappeared.
 
Re: T construction news

Assembly Square is kicking in for the new Orange Line station. I think NorthPoint is making some contribution to new Lechmere. Is the Hingham Shipyard kicking in for this one?

RE: Massport and ferries. I think they could do the airport ferries without any trouble but the other commuter services might be a stretch. That said, Massport is more than just the airport. They run the Port of Boston and have extensive real estate holdings in the seaport district.
 
Re: T construction news

Why is the Logan pier so damned inconvenient to both the airport and eastie? Was it originally envisioned to have more than the one token hotel at the end of the runway there? Otherwise it would seem to have made more sense to have it connected to the north side of Terminal A.
 
Re: T construction news

Back to Government Center construction. Walked by there today and noticed a bunch of spray paint markings on the ground near the station, "cut line", etc.

Even though they are not shutting down the station until the Callahan reopens, I have read that work will still begin. I have seen crews on the green line level and there was a survey crew outside today but that may not be related.
 
Re: T construction news

Could they move all turns from GC to North Station, so at least they could work on the loop portions? Would that help any? Would there be enough room at North Station to handle the turns?
 
Re: T construction news

Could they move all turns from GC to North Station, so at least they could work on the loop portions? Would that help any? Would there be enough room at North Station to handle the turns?

No. North Station doesn't have a loop. Trains have to switch over to a middle track, shut down and allow the operators to switch over to the controls on the opposite ends of the cars.

It's a slow process.
 
Re: T construction news

Could they move all turns from GC to North Station, so at least they could work on the loop portions? Would that help any? Would there be enough room at North Station to handle the turns?

They don't need to. The loop is entirely beyond the station and unaffected by construction. The westbound loop (i.e. Brattle Loop station) is part of the renovations, but that half of the loop is never used except in emergencies and during Garden events.

I imagine B's and D's are just going to loop at Park St. and there won't be much use of GC loop during the shutdown.


NS, as noted, requires changing ends which takes too long for it to be practical to turn too many branches there.
 
Re: T construction news

Also they claim not to have enough cars to run even the "D" line to North Station during rush hour. And I'm not sure it can handle the turnbacks fast enough anyway.

Off-peak they claim they will turn "D" branch at North Station.
 
Re: T construction news

Is the T going to do anything with the Brattle Loop? I'm looking at the plans on their website about the whole project and it looks like they are using some of the space for office/storage/etc. It also looks like the straight sections of the loop aren't long enough for 3 car sets. There is an abandoned platform section which I believe is not going to be altered but if reactivated would need to be connected to the rest of the station via a mezzanine of some sort.

I know there isn't much use for it even when the full Medford branch opens so perhaps this is over thinking it.
 
Re: T construction news

Is the T going to do anything with the Brattle Loop? I'm looking at the plans on their website about the whole project and it looks like they are using some of the space for office/storage/etc. It also looks like the straight sections of the loop aren't long enough for 3 car sets. There is an abandoned platform section which I believe is not going to be altered but if reactivated would need to be connected to the rest of the station via a mezzanine of some sort.

I know there isn't much use for it even when the full Medford branch opens so perhaps this is over thinking it.

The cinderblock false wall is coming down, which will open up a huge amount of space and make the Park St. platform by the Blue Line stairs a lot less cramped without the wall pinning people around the stairs. There'd also be room for more vendors and whatnot behind the main Brattle Loop platform. There already are offices back by the old secondary exits (which can't be connected to anything like the Blue-level emergency exit). It's a lot larger back there than you'd think, so the station will look cavernous when that wall is gone. Doesn't require any mezzanine work. Since the track is pretty seldom-used they'll probably just plunk a couple ADA grade crossings on it and leave the whole thing open to cross like Park St. inbound.

The loop is going to be maintained as-is. They do use it for the postgame rush out of the Garden, so it is active and fully maintained for revenue service. GLX will probably force greater usage as a safety valve for blown schedules and maybe some rush hour supplementals if the Somerville ridership significantly overperforms. If they would build @#$% Red-Blue the load-spreading around downtown would enable greater use of it, since it would be a much milder inconvenience than today to short-turn a few inbound runs in regular service before reaching Park.
 
Re: T construction news

Also they claim not to have enough cars to run even the "D" line to North Station during rush hour. And I'm not sure it can handle the turnbacks fast enough anyway.

Off-peak they claim they will turn "D" branch at North Station.

Car shortage is acute at the moment because 4 Type 7's are out for midlife overhaul and that's soon going to expand to 10 at a time between this fall and 2015 as they rotate the fleet in and out. They're also letting the ones with minor aches and pains stay out of service and move to the front of the line for next shipment out to the rehab factory. 19 of the Kinki's are grounded now between all those factors, plus 9 Type 8's that are out short-term for mundane repairs.

It's not at a level where we're likely to hit any service crisis...they'll get most of the Bredas back before the post-Labor Day schedule change, and if winter casualties are heavy they can reduce how many Type 7's are out for rehab at any given time (although when the spiffy rebuilt cars start flowing back they should be a lot more reliable than before). But they're about 1-1/2 years away from being able to contemplate any additional fleshing-out of the schedule with the demands of the rebuild program taking a chunk out of the active fleet.
 
Re: T construction news

When are the first ones due back? The Kinki's are my favorite to ride out of the whole system.
 
Re: T construction news

When are the first ones due back? The Kinki's are my favorite to ride out of the whole system.

Should be in a couple months. The first unit was sent out last year as a pilot to establish scope of work and costs, and the vendor had 1 year to complete the pilot. 3 more cars went out this spring, 4 more repairable accident victims this summer, and rumors are a couple more could be heading west on flatbed cars in a couple weeks. That means the pilot has to be more or less finished and the itinerary for the main wave of rehabs pretty much set. The out-of-service cars, the ones ailing the most, the ones needing heaviest body work go first. Which means when the worst-of-the-worst comes back and healthier cars start heading out the pace of the program should pick up dramatically in late-'14 and 2015.


Propulsion systems, doors, and the between-car electronics are pretty much standard-issue for these sorts of things since they're the stuff that wears out fastest. The cars should operate a lot smoother and have fewer "reboots" needed when there's a wonky connection between cars in the train. Body work's also standard...they'll fix the carbody rust and dents. And repaint any of the ones that did get body work...meaning more of the cars will go on the current paint scheme, far fewer will come back in the original green-and-white, and the most numerous gray-and-teals will get reduced.

But beyond that...it's a mystery what they're doing. No idea what they're doing to the interior. Whether they're getting retrofitted with interior LED lights or door chimes or upgraded A/C, or LED destination signs. Have to wait for the first car to come back to find out. Most likely the interior is not going to change at all except for maybe LED lights, since the seats and whatnot are still in pretty pristine condition.


Contract is for 86 of the 1986-87 era 3600 series cars. Option on the contract is for +20 cars, including the circa-1997 3700 series. 2 cars wrecked beyond repair expected to be returned to service by re-mating salvageable ends and cannibalizing other parts from the rest of the wrecks (which will be scrapped for parts). 1-2 cars are expected to be converted into work cars during the program, since one of the old Boeings (the all-green Maintenance of Way car that lives at Reservoir) is kaput and the other 2 (the orange-and-creme Track Inspection car and the re-railer car stored at Arlington) are ailing and might not be worth keeping much longer.


These things ought to last 40-45 years easy with how much work is being put into them. They've held up pretty well after 27 years with nearly zero substantial maintenance, and there's no reason with 1 car in each consist being fully ADA-equipped that the 7's can't hit near-PCC level longevity. They Just Work™, and nearly every Kinki Sharyo car or competing derivative made in the last 25 years has guts based on the Type 7 design. They'll almost certainly outlast the Bredas, which will probably get outright replaced rather than rehabbed in another dozen years.
 
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Re: T construction news

Is this why there doesn't seem to be any 3 car trains anymore?
 
Re: T construction news

These things ought to last 40-45 years easy with how much work is being put into them. They've held up pretty well after 27 years with nearly zero substantial maintenance, and there's no reason with 1 car in each consist being fully ADA-equipped that the 7's can't hit near-PCC level longevity. They Just Work™, and nearly every Kinki Sharyo car or competing derivative made in the last 25 years has guts based on the Type 7 design. They'll almost certainly outlast the Bredas, which will probably get outright replaced rather than rehabbed in another dozen years.

It really reinforces the image of Japanese Industrial Engineering, does it? And we're not going back to them for the type 8's, are we?
 
Re: T construction news

Is this why there doesn't seem to be any 3 car trains anymore?

That, and schools are out of session so the B/C/E aren't as all-day crowded as usual. They'll probably return when the fall schedule kicks in. After all, most of the ones that are out for rehab right now were ones that were out-of-service to begin with. The only pinch they're feeling are the Type 8's that are out-of-service awaiting parts, and those will be back soon.
 
Re: T construction news

Oh, they think it's not crowded when school's "out of session?"

Sigh. It would be nice if the managers ever actually rode their lines.
 
Re: T construction news

It really reinforces the image of Japanese Industrial Engineering, does it? And we're not going back to them for the type 8's, are we?

The Type 9 procurement was tweaked after the Breda disaster so "manufacturer experience" can overrule an outright low bid so long as the more experienced bid is in the same ballpark. Stuff like parts-and-labor costs over lifetime of the car giving slight nod to experience over inexperience.

I would say Kinki has the overwhelming inside track for the next one, because the request for bids they sent out a couple years ago had pages and pages of specs that were *very* similar to the AmeriTram and other current Kinki models and *not at all* similar to the Bredas. The AmeriTram, of course, is the evolutionary successor of the Type 7 (and it FINALLY gets the seat arrangement right for a half-high/half-low car). If they win the supplemental order for the Type 9's, they'll almost certainly win the Breda-replacement Type 9A's or 10's that are coming a decade or less afterwards. The 9's I doubt are going to be a one-and-done small order. They want a modern design that they can then re-order almost verbatim a few years later in larger quantities. The Bredas are going to be so expensive to midlife-rehab that it'll barely be cheaper than buying all-new. They're scared of what those problematic center trucks are going to do when they start getting worn out, and aren't even going to try. They'll be 20 years and done. Given that the first cars were delivered in 1998 (although was almost 2005 before the odometers started in earnest), that's not so far off.


Kinki's Type 9 bid likely is going to work backwards from the AmeriTram design when they customize to the Green Line's insane quirks rather than throw shit at the wall from a napkin sketch like Boeing and Breda did. This may be an agency that never learns writ-large, but the Boeings and Bredas were so infamously, memorably bad that the PR hit for another fuck-up would cost people with cushy jobs their cushy jobs. Bureaucrats DO get motivated when it's a threat reaching all the way to their normally well-insulated turf.

Kinki is quite likely to be the outright low bid, too. They were a close runner-up for the Type 8's and only lost because Breda was desperate to crack the U.S. trolley market and lowballed all the usual suspects to get itself in the door (much like Hyundai-Rotem did to break the bi-level coach and EMU markets over tried-and-true Bombardier and Kawasaki). Their manufacturing scale has improved greatly since then because they're building more trolleys than ever, from a largely generic base with huge worldwide parts supply.

And their makes' similarities to the 7's bode very well for the 7's lasting 40-50 years. Maybe even with Kinki dusting off its late-90's pitch to lengthen the cars with a low-floor "sandwich" section (the T didn't like the idea of the length increasing) to make them full-ADA compliant without needing to trainline with another low-floor carAnd who knows...maybe when the T's done with them they'll get re-sold to other agencies with another rebuild. Other than the articulated section there's nothing the least bit tricky about maintaining them. The Boeings and Bredas couldn't/won't push much past 20-25 because the unproven designs and lack of subsequent orders choked the parts supply. MUNI and the T only wheezed the Boeings to the 30-year mark by scrapping large numbers of them and cannibalizing parts. The 85 Bredas don't even have that scale going for them, whereas there's so many parts that'll work with the 7's generic guts that they can almost be PCC-immortal if well taken care of.
 

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