MBTA Winter 2015: Failure and Recovery

Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

BussesAin'tTrains said:
What? It's the bloody pension's fault that the state screwed over the T's finances and won't fix them? I'm happy to see the pension system examined as part of a potential fix, but Jesus Christ, I'm so done with that being blamed as the reason for the T's shit performance.
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I don't assert a direct line between pensions and performance. As noted upthread, I think the T's done pretty well considering record-breaking snowfall and the demand to be 100% operating. But pensions and performance are indirectly related via some pretty messy and sometimes scary financing accounting.

{EDIT} When you see a bargain, you stock up. I'd like to buy transit maintenance and expansion like I was buying a 100-pack of AA batteries at Costco. When you see predatory prices, like buying 4-AAs at Tedeschi's, you buy as little as possible. Our legislators have acted like that Tedeschi's customer. Were they wrong? Can only answer that if we know how fair the prices are.

I'd be interested to hear Mike Dukakis on this topic.

It is a tough one. I believe in good jobs at good wages and even good pensions, just like Mike, but golly everywhere in the USA the growth of transit is constrained by the high cost of construction (taking 25 people in NYC's ESA project to staff the *exact*same* TBM machine that is staffed in Spain by 8 people) and by transit work rules (particularly on FRA railroads). If the MBTA's CR or Transit is anything like the LIRR (where maintenance supervisors home in bed can earn "overtime" when the crews they "supervise" are earning OT), we should know that and consider trading its reform for more spending on maintenance and expansion.

Hourly wages should be high, but the work rules and fringes can smother a system
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Why do people hate pensions? Do they also hate contract law?
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

deh74 said:
I highly doubt that very many people will be going into Boston for the parade, especially since this is a weekday and most people are either at work or in class during the day. I still think that the T is going to have another seizure today though, sadly.
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If you saw it today, you'd have thought different.

There were thousands of people lined up all the way from the Pru, down the intended street routes planned and all the way to Gov't Center. :eek:
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

jass said:
Why do people hate pensions? Do they also hate contract law?
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I'm on 2 pensions, and with one of them, I'm getting less than I was supposed to because United Airlines screwed us over after 09-11 when they were one of the airlines going on their so-called cost cutting program.

They farmed it out to a private organization to handle. Bet they got a lot of dough in return for doing that - causing us to get far less that what we were supposed to get! :mad:
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

jass said:
Why do people hate pensions? Do they also hate contract law?
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Some people dislike public pensions because of:

Short amount of time working required to receive pension

Fact that public pensions are supported by taxpayers many of whom do not have pensions plans of their own at their private employers

Fact that public employees form a large voting block and pensions are a perk offered by elected officials to get in and stay in office.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

jass said:
Why do people hate pensions? Do they also hate contract law?
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It isn't that simple. Basically everything is different when you work for the state including the big 3:
Collective Bargaining
Right to Strike
Contract

Whether its Calvin Cooldge in the 1919 Boston Police strike, or FDR on Federal unions, everyone understands that the Government is just a different sort of animal when it comes to employment.

FDR was very clear that he didn't think that Federal employees could threaten strikes or sign a contract as usually understood. Scott Walker delights in citing this because (while technically, FDR was silent on state/municipal) the principals as FDR explained them were pretty clear: Government is just different.

The whole problem is that both the Government and the Employees have roles and duties that are different from "commercial" contracts. In particular, the State, as a negotiator or enforcer is not "at arms length." Really, both "sides" end up working both sides of the deal. The politicians are too often acting out of personal interest (paying off core supporters and core contributors), and so are flawed in terms of their ability to represent "their side" of the deal: the Commonwealth's long-term interests.

If all of the T really were fully outsourced to Keolis, then, yes, you can have a normal worker-employer contract with Keolis. But if Keolis had promised unsustainable pensions then Keolis would have to declare bankruptcy and the courts would have the option of abrogating/reducing pensions (and paying only the PBGC minimum
 
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Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Arlington said:
I don't assert a direct line between pensions and performance. As noted upthread, I think the T's done pretty well considering record-breaking snowfall and the demand to be 100% operating. But pensions and performance are indirectly related via some pretty messy and sometimes scary financing accounting.

{EDIT} When you see a bargain, you stock up. I'd like to buy transit maintenance and expansion like I was buying a 100-pack of AA batteries at Costco. When you see predatory prices, like buying 4-AAs at Tedeschi's, you buy as little as possible. Our legislators have acted like that Tedeschi's customer. Were they wrong? Can only answer that if we know how fair the prices are.

I'd be interested to hear Mike Dukakis on this topic.

It is a tough one. I believe in good jobs at good wages and even good pensions, just like Mike, but golly everywhere in the USA the growth of transit is constrained by the high cost of construction (taking 25 people in NYC's ESA project to staff the *exact*same* TBM machine that is staffed in Spain by 8 people) and by transit work rules (particularly on FRA railroads). If the MBTA's CR or Transit is anything like the LIRR (where maintenance supervisors home in bed can earn "overtime" when the crews they "supervise" are earning OT), we should know that and consider trading its reform for more spending on maintenance and expansion.

Hourly wages should be high, but the work rules and fringes can smother a system
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And that should be part of the conversation and potentially part of an overall MBTA reform package. I'm just done with people acting like that's the primary cause of the agency's problems.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

BussesAin'tTrains said:
And that should be part of the conversation and potentially part of an overall MBTA reform package. I'm just done with people acting like that's the primary cause of the agency's problems.
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That's a major part of the problem for the MBTA. Why are we giving pensions to a system that continues to become inefficient each year.

The taxpayers deserve a more efficient system which the MBTA in Boston should be a cutting edge 21 century transit grid.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

BussesAin'tTrains said:
And that should be part of the conversation and potentially part of an overall MBTA reform package. I'm just done with people acting like that's the primary cause of the agency's problems.
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Busses -- the pensions are symptomatic of the problems of the public sector unions and their detrimental impact on the taxpayer and the consumers of public services such as mass transit, highways, etc.

Since the public sector unions are connected by the financial umbilical to the Legislature and also connected by through their political support [financial and organizational] to the same Legislature -- what do you expect -- efficiency?

Actually I'd almost settle for simple wast and inefficiency if the thievery and corruption was eliminated

The MBTA pension system as engineered by Billy Bulger [they used to call the MBTA Mr Bulger's Transit Agency] and similar feather-bedded staffing /etc., engineered with creation of the Turnpike Authority, by William Callahan, are the closest that we come in the US to Greece

Massport while of a similar form of organization has to deal with the airlines as well as the public so its somewhat better -- but it too suffers from pension gold plated featherbedding and excessive staffing
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Neither of you are listening to me. Pension reform should be part of any MBTA deal. But it's not the main reason that the MBTA is having problems. I'm a member of a public sector union (in your town Westie) and I'm no fan of them, but approaching MBTA reform as primarily a union busting move will not be a winning political strategy.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

BussesAin'tTrains said:
Neither of you are listening to me. Pension reform should be part of any MBTA deal. But it's not the main reason that the MBTA is having problems. I'm a member of a public sector union (in your town Westie) and I'm no fan of them, but approaching MBTA reform as primarily a union busting move will not be a winning political strategy.
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I agree. Frankly anyone who tells you they've found "the problem" in a complex, multi-jurisdiction, many-function bureaucracy is probably wrong. Pensions could even be the single biggest part of the problem (30%? 40%?) but it isn't going to be the only thing needing fixing.
Baker was also asked, given this week’s severe transportation delays, whether his administration intended to revive a public discussion about additional investments in transportation infrastructure.

“Everybody always wants to spend more money on everything, I get that,” he said. “But I’m going to start this conversation with Stephanie” Pollack, the state transportation secretary, people at the MBTA, and the Legislature.
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If only we could have the kind of high-quality win-win oriented conversation on this board of the same quality that, no doubt, the tax-hesitant, value-for-money Baker will have with the Dukakis-protege he appointed. The only viewpoint that doesn't get a prime seat at that table is the hack-a-rama. I'd hope that workers, taxpayers, and anyone who rides, bikes, walks, or drives will be well served.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Arlington said:
I agree. Frankly anyone who tells you they've found "the problem" in a complex, multi-jurisdiction, many-function bureaucracy is probably wrong. Pensions could even be the single biggest part of the problem (30%? 40%?) but it isn't going to be the only thing needing fixing.

.
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I think the entire MBTA should be outsourced to make a better system. The system now is Outdated and needs a major overhaul. Why not outsource the entire system which empowers the private sector to become innovative--Also will get rid of the healthcare costs along with Govt Ponzi Pension schemes that only bankrupt the states overtime: For example Illinois, California and Detroit.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

TheRifleman said:
I think the entire MBTA should be outsourced to make a better system. The system now is Outdated and needs a major overhaul. Why not outsource the entire system which empowers the private sector to become innovative--Also will get rid of the healthcare costs along with Govt Ponzi Pension schemes that only bankrupt the states overtime: For example Illinois, California and Detroit.
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Are you kidding? We're in a union heavy state. No way in hell would that happen. Not saying it theoretically couldn't be done, but it will take a LOT of political will that will likely be non-existent when it comes to this issue.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

And outsourcing the commuter rail system has gone sooooooo well. :rolleyes:
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

TheRifleman said:
I think the entire MBTA should be outsourced to make a better system. The system now is Outdated and needs a major overhaul. Why not outsource the entire system which empowers the private sector to become innovative--Also will get rid of the healthcare costs along with Govt Ponzi Pension schemes that only bankrupt the states overtime: For example Illinois, California and Detroit.
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Outsourcing is not always a good thing.

It causes employees to lose jobs, bitter rivals, lost wages, and the unemployment rate goes up.

I know. I was laid off twice from United Airlines due to outsourcing! I had planned to retire from there and was only 3 weeks away from being able to retire and got screwed over! :mad:
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

Jahvon09 said:
Outsourcing is not always a good thing.

It causes employees to lose jobs, bitter rivals, lost wages, and the unemployment rate goes up.

I know. I was laid off twice from United Airlines due to outsourcing! I had planned to retire from there and was only 3 weeks away from being able to retire and got screwed over! :mad:
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It all depends---But the MBTA is a Fiscal Financial Train-wreck. Along with the MBTA has become an absolute Transit nightmare --

They want to hold the Olympics in Boston but they can't even get the Red-Line consistent going through a couple of winter storms.

MBTA needs to be revamped and upgraded.

I think time has finally caught up with the MBTA Executives for the last 25 years of mismanagement. They will need a massive taxpayers bailout to support the pensions and the shitty infrastructure.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

TheRifleman said:
It all depends---But the MBTA is a Fiscal Financial Train-wreck. Along with the MBTA has become an absolute Transit nightmare --

They want to hold the Olympics in Boston but they can't even get the Red-Line consistent going through a couple of winter storms.

MBTA needs to be revamped and upgraded.

I think time has finally caught up with the MBTA Executives for the last 25 years of mismanagement. They will need a massive taxpayers bailout to support the pensions and the shitty infrastructure.
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Bankrupt it. Public isn't going to to go for a bailout.
 
Re: MBTA & Regualr Driving may be Shut Down During Coming Snowstorm!

TheRifleman said:
It all depends---But [Roads are] a Fiscal Financial Train-wreck. Along with the [Road network] has become an absolute [Traffic] nightmare --

They want to hold the Olympics in Boston but they can't even get the [streets] consistent going through a couple of winter storms.

[our road network] needs to be revamped and upgraded.
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There, I fixed it for you. Are you ready to turn our roads over to a private toll operator who'll charge particularly-high congestion fees at rush hour? That'll tell us a lot about whether you're really a believer in the corrective power of market forces and private enterprise, or just wishing a medicine upon others that you'd never take yourself.

(also, I don't get how performance in historically-deep snow tells us much about how Boston'd perform in Summer. It's a lot like the old "They can put a Man on the Moon, but they can't fix..." complaints: you're offering feeling, not thinking.)
 
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