Menino vs Chick-fil-a

Take another perspective then. Technically, by banning Chick-fil-a, you're discriminating against a firm on account of their beliefs. By doing so, this could lead to a slippery slope where other firms are banned from the city for various reasons. For example, why not ban McDonald's or Burger King, or any other restaurants that serve meat because they pay the meat industry to kill animals for our consumption, something vegetarians and vegans oppose to.

You really can't distinguish between homosexuality and vegetarianism? How about race and vegetarianism? Gender and vegetarianism?

That aside, do you remember what state you live in? The constitutionality of gay marriage at the state and federal levels is a settled issue here. A company financially dedicated to upholding ACTUAL on-the-books legislation like DOMA has no business in this state.
 
You really can't distinguish between homosexuality and vegetarianism? How about race and vegetarianism? Gender and vegetarianism?

That aside, do you remember what state you live in? The constitutionality of gay marriage at the state and federal levels is a settled issue here. A company financially dedicated to upholding ACTUAL on-the-books legislation like DOMA has no business in this state.

Did federal and state level constitution restrict the ability for people to believe in their own definition of marriage? No, and I can't believe I'm saying this but this sounds almost hypocritical for banning another's definition of marriage in favor for the other.

And yes I can distinguish between the two. But this is about politics and whether one is allowed to decide what establishment can conduct business. In cases like this, we're talking about people's views deciding on what gets banned in which case, vegetarianism and homosexuality are one and the same, individual's view.

Again, let the people decide. Seeing how MA legistature passed gay marriage, I see no problem for the people to decide for themselves to ban Chick-fil-a from the city. We don't need the mayor to choose for us. That's my point.
 
Re: The New Retail Thread

There's a difference between free speech and actively spending money to discriminate though, right? What if Burger King was funding human trafficking? Just let it happen as freedom of speech? Of course not. I'd expect Menino to say something then too.

Human trafficking is illegal, and Burger King would be prosecuted under the law.
 
All this hypothetical talk about "bans" is irrelevant considering Menino never made any such claims. What he did say, quoting directly from the article is that "“If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult — unless they open up their policies.”

Whether or not you think an elected official should be issuing such threats, and whether you would consider this to be an abuse of power is a different matter. However, there is a process which Chick-fil-A can go through if it wishes, and while the Mayor can exert some influence, there is only so much he can do within legal limits. In my opinion this is mostly some pretty harmless posturing.
 
This issue of Chick-fil-A's beliefs (not just this Boston fiasco) is actually going national and global. I'm left wondering if anything will come of it or if this is really just free advertising for them.
 
Depends on who you think has more buying power -gays & friends/families/supporters of gays or Evangelical Christians & people who don't care and want a good chicken sandwich.
 
This issue of Chick-fil-A's beliefs (not just this Boston fiasco) is actually going national and global. I'm left wondering if anything will come of it or if this is really just free advertising for them.

I think it's interesting. It hasn't been exactly a secret of what are the religious beliefs of Chick-Fil-A's founders (and management), and where they would stand on these issues.
 
Depends on who you think has more buying power -gays & friends/families/supporters of gays or Evangelical Christians & people who don't care and want a good chicken sandwich.

Unfortunately, it may be the latter in the broader picture, except in Europe.

But someday soon, I should certainly think it will be the former.
 
Chicago too!

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0120725_1_1st-ward-gay-marriage-ward-alderman

Moreno tries to block restaurant that opposes gay marriage from opening in his Northwest Side ward
July 25, 2012|By Hal Dardick, Chicago Tribune reporter

A Chicago alderman wants to kill Chick-fil-A's plans to build a restaurant in his increasingly trendy Northwest Side ward because the fast-food chain's top executive vocally opposes gay marriage.

Ald.Proco "Joe" Moreno announced this week that he will block Chick-fil-A's effort to build its second Chicago store, which would be in the Logan Square neighborhood, following company President Dan Cathy's remarks last week that he was "guilty as charged" for supporting the biblical definition of marriage as between a man and woman.



"If you are discriminating against a segment of the community, I don't want you in the 1st Ward," Moreno told the Tribune on Tuesday.

Moreno stated his position in strong terms, referring to Cathy's "bigoted, homophobic comments" in a proposed opinion page piece that an aide also sent to Tribune reporters. "Because of this man's ignorance, I will now be denying Chick-fil-A's permit to open a restaurant in the 1st Ward."

The alderman has the ideological support of Mayor Rahm Emanuel.

"Chick-fil-A values are not Chicago values," the mayor said in a statement when asked about Moreno's decision. "They disrespect our fellow neighbors and residents. This would be a bad investment, since it would be empty."

Moreno is relying on a rarely violated Chicago tradition known as aldermanic privilege, which dictates that City Council members defer to the opinion of the ward alderman on local issues. Last year Moreno wielded that weapon to block plans for aWal-Martin his ward, saying he had issues with the property owner and thatWal-Martwas not "a perfect fit for the area."

Chick-fil-A already has obtained zoning for a restaurant in the 2500 block of North Elston Avenue, but it must seek council approval to divide the land so it can purchase an out lot near Home Depot, Moreno said.

In opposing Chick-fil-A, Moreno stakes out a position likely to resonate in his hipster ward and much of the rest of the city, where public officials have long cultivated the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. But Moreno also enters the complex intersection of property and free-speech rights.

The alderman, serving his first full term, dismissed any First Amendment concerns.

"You have the right to say what you want to say, but zoning is not a right," he said, adding that he also had concerns about traffic in the area.

Moreno said he has been working on traffic issues for nine months with Chick-fil-A executives. During that period, Moreno also discussed the issue of gay rights, in light of reports that the Cathy family's WinShape Foundation had supported anti-gay organizations, the alderman said.

Company executives assured him they would take no stance on the issue of gay rights and would not discriminate in any fashion at the restaurant, Moreno said.

On Tuesday, Chick-fil-A public relations executives asked for questions to be emailed, then did not respond to them. Attempts to reach the company's local attorney were not successful.


Cathy was quoted July 16 in the Baptist Press saying he was "guilty as charged" for supporting "the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that."

Since Cathy made the comments, his company has come under fire in some quarters.

Jim Henson Co., creator of Muppets films and TV shows, withdrew from a deal to create characters for the chain's kids meals and donated payments it had received from Chick-fil-A to the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination.

Boston Mayor Thomas Menino told the Boston Herald he would block the chain from opening in his city, but former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee wrote on his Facebook page that he was "incensed at the vitriolic assaults on the Chick-fil-A company."

Cathy is the son of the founder of Chick-fil-A, which opened its first store in suburban Atlanta in 1967. The family is known for espousing its Christian values. It closes on Sundays and Christian holidays.

Rick Garcia, a longtime Illinois gay rights activist who is a policy adviser to The Civil Rights Agenda group that was working with Moreno and Chick-fil-A on LGBT issues, lauded Moreno's decision.

"I think it's important that the city sends a message that we want business here ... but what we can't have and don't want are businesses that have discriminatory roles," Garcia said, adding that he's a defender of free speech.

Moreno, meanwhile, said it will take "more than words" to get him to reverse course.

"They'd have to do a complete 180," the alderman said. "They'd have to work with LGBT groups in terms of hiring, and there would have to be a public apology from (Cathy)."

hdardick@tribune.com
 
The Chicago Chick-fil-A is absolutely amazing. Top notch professional interior design, much like McCafe in Europe.
 
The letter has surfaced. Menino doesn't just say that he doesn't agree with Cathy's beliefs. He defends the specific site they were interested in (on the Freedom Trail and across from City Hall Plaza where he greeted same-sex couples when we legalized it) in an incredibly remarkable manner.

480072_463574607000474_1122715052_n.jpg
 
In term of taste, how similar is Chick-fil-a compared to other chicken specialized restaurants such as Popeyes and KFC?
 
In term of taste, how similar is Chick-fil-a compared to other chicken specialized restaurants such as Popeyes and KFC?

The delicious factor is 10x that of the competition and... WAFFLE FRIES.

...and freakishly amazing customer service including table service for trash pickup and sometimes they even bring you a free brownie. I had that happen once at Northshore Mall. I sat on the other side of the food court and the lady found where I was sitting, took my trash, refilled my drink, and gave me a free dessert.
 
The letter has surfaced. Menino doesn't just say that he doesn't agree with Cathy's beliefs. He defends the specific site they were interested in (on the Freedom Trail and across from City Hall Plaza where he greeted same-sex couples when we legalized it) in an incredibly remarkable manner.
Face it. In this case the Mayor is being the sort of overbearing government that the 1st and 14th Amendments protect us from. He even admits in the letter he's acting from nothing more than "anger." Good politics in Boston, but bad civil rights. Chick-Fil-A is guilty of nothing worse (and nothing less legal) than "insulting" one of the Mayor's constituencies. Sorry, but being insulting is protected.

The really insidious part is the "cc" to the landlord. We know how Menino runs the city. It is an implicit threat not to lease to people who don't agree with the Mayor.

In the US, you can't ban 1 group from doing business near a spot "sacred" to another "opposing" group. Can't ban an Islamic Center from near Ground Zero. Can't ban Chick-Fil-A from City Hall Plaza. Holding Muslim beliefs is protected everywhere, even near the WTC. Wanting to change marriage laws of the land (on both sides) is protected everywhere, even at--especially at-- City Hall Plaza.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/07/chik-fil-a-homophobes-have-rights-too
 
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Depends on who you think has more buying power -gays & friends/families/supporters of gays or Evangelical Christians & people who don't care and want a good chicken sandwich.
It is a big enough world that all of them can have a chicken sandwich in peace at the store of their choice, or choose not to eat a chicken sandwich at all. Its called pluralism. If Chevy were the Evangelical car and Ford were the Gay car, both could run thriving businesses in America and not care that people were shopping at the other one.
 
I've gone back and forth on this one for a while. I'm a huge supporter of complete equality (in marriage and beyond) for the GLBTG community. I absolutely love Menino's stance on Chick-Fil-A and l love the letter even more.

That said, I believe that the company has the right to open a store and fail or succeed on their own merit. If the people of Boston feel as strongly as Menino about Chick-Fil-A, then they should fail pretty quickly.

People seem to be upset about the mayor's interference with the store's opening. I'm curious as to what, exactly, has he done to interfere? He has made vows, but hasn't said exactly how he'll stop them. I'm not even sure he can legally block them from opening a store. At most, he can only delay them using existing legal means to do so. In that letter, all I saw was clearly disapproving words, but nothing actually saying that the company isn't allowed to open there.

So I support the mayor on this one until he goes beyond the reach of normal legislation. So far, he hasn't done anything beyond stating his opinion. Frankly, the idea of a Chick-Fil-A in that spot is offensive to me regardless of their stance on gay rights.
 
I'm not even sure he can legally block them from opening a store. At most, he can only delay them using existing legal means to do so.
If he's delaying them for a "real" reason, that's OK (in fact, required), and of course delaying them directly for what they believe is explicitly prohibited by the 1st Amendment.

In between is "slow-walking" them for what they believe or enforcing an apparently-neutral law in a non-neutral way. Lrfox and others seem to be hoping that this is where the Mayor will operate, but that's also prohibited by the 14th Amendment. The Mayor has already undermined his own case were (Chick-Fil-A to allege this) by giving people the impression that he'd act against them for insulting remarks, when he said, "If they [Chick-Fil-A] need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult — unless they open up their policies."

It is worth reading the Wikipedia article on Yick Wo v. Hopkins, where San Francisco required that all laundries in wooden buildings needed a special permit, which was then used to discriminate against Chinese laundries, which made up 2/3 of the laundries in wooden buildings.

Lets imagine the Mayor of an Evangelical community saying they didn't want an Apple store because he's insulted by Apple support for gay rights and gay marriage because in *his* state the law goes the other way. That guy? He's just the same as Mayor Menino. Probably right on local politics, but definitely wrong on 1st/14th amendment rights and the law.
 
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That said, I believe that the company has the right to open a store and fail or succeed on their own merit. If the people of Boston feel as strongly as Menino about Chick-Fil-A, then they should fail pretty quickly.

That's the thing. Most people don't care and Chick-Fil-A will do just fine. There might be a few obnoxious protests early on but once they get the idea that people have more important things to concern themselves with they'll slink back to the Cambridge, Somerville and JP and the next cause du jour. As for Menino, he's pandering to a certain demographic, nothing more. Last I checked, Mumbles was a devout, church goin' Roman Catholic, another organization that some here would purport to be an extremist hate group.
 
That's the thing. Most people don't care and Chick-Fil-A will do just fine. There might be a few obnoxious protests early on but once they get the idea that people have more important things to concern themselves with they'll slink back to the Cambridge, Somerville and JP and the next cause du jour..

And that's what I think will happen too. I don't think most people will care and I'd wager they'd probably still do a good business. I'm not a big fan of the franchise in general, but they deserve a fair crack at the market regardless of their CEO's opinions.

Full Disclosure: I've eaten at Chick-Fil-A since the "announcement" (ATL airport) and I don't feel like less of a human being. I was starving and I didn't want Cinnabon. My gay friends have absolved me of my sins.
 

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