Millennium Tower (Filene's) | 426 Washington Street | Downtown

[dshoost88]

Re: Filene's

(why am I awake right now?!?!?!)

I agree. That little gap in between the two building is the only part I dislike. They should build the base at the same height (it would be awesome if they did look at Waterview Place as an example) and stick a mega department store in there.

I think the gap was necessary there to mitigate for the wind on Hawley Street. The principal tried to explain the wind studies to those of us that don't understand them completely and explained that no building could be constructed if there was an obscenely high concentration of wind caused by their project to any point surrounding it. They said that their building improved the wind speeds (i.e. slowed them down) by Shoppers Park and along Washington St., but created a mega wind tunnel along Hawley the way it was originally designed. I think that's why you have the awkward separation in this design. But hey, I'll take that over a big engineering setback anyday.

Any idea on the number of floors?

If I remember correctly, I believe it's 60 floors (maybe 55... one of the two).

@itchy: the micro-units wasn't brought up by Millennium Partners originally. A few of us in the crowd were asking if people our age (in their 20's) would be the kinds of people renting/buying in this tower or if it would be the elite, mega-rich retirees and office executives relocating from the suburbs. To that, he said the latter, but THEN the "they would entertain the thought of microunits!! ("Innovation Housing")". Unless they're scared to death about filling up these units (I wouldn't be in this real estate market), I highly doubt there will be any "innovation units" in this tower.

It's funny, though, there were a couple downtown crossing residents at the meeting--women in her 40's or 50's--who said they'd like to see more young people in the area, that "we could be innovative here", and that they want a vibrant community rather than a dying one.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Filene's

My favorite quote from her was "We can be innovative too!"

About the housing type: I was really surprised at how little Millennium had thought about it. They aren't coming into this project with a set-in-stone mentality for unit type. They're still experimenting with floor plans and tower shapes and not letting the unit types restrict the design. Yeah, microunits would probably never happen here (certainly a possibility in other DTX buildings), but the fact that he didn't laugh the comment off means something.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Filene's

Going back a few posts - there's an ArchBoston Tshirt??

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Filene's

Good job getting to this meeting, lads.

I had my morning coffee in Bryant Park today. Regardless of final height, is it wrong to hope for something as good as the B of A Tower?

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: Filene's

My favorite quote from her was "We can be innovative too!"

About the housing type: I was really surprised at how little Millennium had thought about it.

Part of me likes the fact that they are being flexible but the other part of me thinks that it is time to make a decision on the housing component as soon as possible so that construction can get started. It shouldn't take them 6+ months to decide on the residential set up. Given the very long construction schedule for this development, it would be nice if shovels could be in the ground (again) by March at the latest.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Filene's

They have a phased design-build set up. They want a tenant (dept store and offices) in Filene's before the tower is built. They are trying to take the most solid path with the least speculation. Total kudos to them.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: Filene's

Going back a few posts - there's an ArchBoston Tshirt??

I do believe I'm the only one to have one.

+

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Filene's

Ahearn: Rents at former Filene's development will set 'new record'
Boston Business Journal by Thomas Grillo, Real Estate Editor
Photo by Thomas Grillo.

Joseph Larkin of Millennium Partners presented plans for a redeveloped Filene's site to the neighborhood at a Boston Redevelopment Authority meeting.

Millennium Partners, the developer who hopes to rescue the unsightly Filene’s project in Boston’s Downtown Crossing, said the proposed apartments in the to-be-built-glass tower will be high end.

“It’s going to be expensive,” said Joseph Larkin, one of Millennium’s principals. “There’s no way to say they won’t be.”

In the first public meeting on the project on Wednesday night at City Hall, Larkin declined to tell the crowd of about three-dozen how much the 550 apartments will cost.

But Kevin Ahearn, president of Otis & Ahearn, who leased the luxury lofts at Atlantic Wharf for Boston Properties (NYSE: BXP), predicts that the new Filene’s apartments will be the most expensive in the city. He expects a 350-square-foot studio will cost $3,000 or more per month and a small one-bedroom could cost from $3,750 to $4000 and up.

“The Filene’s apartments will set a new record because of the views, the finishes and the amenities,” he said

In February, Millennium took over the stalled Filene’s project and presented plans for a $615 million redevelopment that includes office, retail and 550 apartments. But it’s unclear whether the development team is having any better time than Vornado Realty Trust (NYSE: VNO) in securing financing for the ambitious project. Following the two-hour meeting, Larkin declined to comment on the financials.

"small one-bedroom could cost from $3,750 to $4000 and up."
I guess that leaves out the locals from buying any.

 

[czsz]

Re: Filene's

The very fact that they will be rentals makes this more accessible than it would have been. Also, these prices would not be unheard of in Manhattan, even outside of the most desirable neighborhoods. It's natural to expect this deep in the heart of Boston. It will relieve prices elsewhere, and, by showing it's possible to continue demanding such rents in DTC, incentivize other developments that will also do so.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Filene's

The very fact that they will be rentals makes this more accessible than it would have been. Also, these prices would not be unheard of in Manhattan, even outside of the most desirable neighborhoods. It's natural to expect this deep in the heart of Boston. It will relieve prices elsewhere, and, by showing it's possible to continue demanding such rents in DTC, incentivize other developments that will also do so.

I highly doubt this statement. What's the vacancy rate of 45 Province St? A recent report shows sluggish sales for that location, and although the height of 45 Province St is significantly less, views only matter if the residents can afford, which right now doesn't seem like it.

Thus, I don't see price being relieved at all. 45 Province St. has been on the market for a couple of years now and still hasn't filled up. Although I do not know if they have lowered the price to attract more resident, the fact that people can't afford the price of that tower shows that even less will be able to afford to pay for this tower.

Oh and here's the report.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2012/02/sluggish-sales-at-45-province.html

Also, the last part, the only incentive this development will bring, if they price it that high, is for surrounding and existing residential towers to raise their price, as long as they can undercut it by a small margin. From the article, it doesn't seem like the developers have any intention to lower the price, thus overall price will in fact increase.

 

[itchy]

Re: Filene's

Regardless of final height, is it wrong to hope for something as good as the B of A Tower?

Hear, hear.

The very fact that they will be rentals makes this more accessible than it would have been. Also, these prices would not be unheard of in Manhattan, even outside of the most desirable neighborhoods. It's natural to expect this deep in the heart of Boston. It will relieve prices elsewhere, and, by showing it's possible to continue demanding such rents in DTC, incentivize other developments that will also do so.

Another good takeaway from New York.

More Manhattan please, in every sense of the word, DTX.

 

[Semass]

Re: Filene's

I highly doubt this statement. What's the vacancy rate of 45 Province St? A recent report shows sluggish sales for that location, and although the height of 45 Province St is significantly less, views only matter if the residents can afford, which right now doesn't seem like it.

Thus, I don't see price being relieved at all. 45 Province St. has been on the market for a couple of years now and still hasn't filled up. Although I do not know if they have lowered the price to attract more resident, the fact that people can't afford the price of that tower shows that even less will be able to afford to pay for this tower.

And The Littlest Bar died for this. In all seriousness, At some point the carrying costs of the vacant units has to force the developer to take steps to move those units - like drop the price. What is the vacancy at the other millenium building?

 

[blinkieob]

Re: Filene's

I highly doubt this statement. What's the vacancy rate of 45 Province St? A recent report shows sluggish sales for that location, and although the height of 45 Province St is significantly less, views only matter if the residents can afford, which right now doesn't seem like it.

Aren't condo sales and apartment rentals kind of apples and oranges? I'm guessing relatively sluggish sales are why a lot of the projects moving forward right now are rentals, including this one, which suggests the luxury rental market is still strong. I don't have any reports to back this up, but I have to assume that Millennium does.

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: Filene's

I had my morning coffee in Bryant Park today. Regardless of final height, is it wrong to hope for something as good as the B of A Tower?

Lucky you; I'm stuck in Cleveland for the next month. But I can't get a handle on the BOA Tower...sometimes it looks stunning and of the highest quality and then sometimes it looks like typical NYC corporate detritus.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Filene's

Aren't condo sales and apartment rentals kind of apples and oranges? I'm guessing relatively sluggish sales are why a lot of the projects moving forward right now are rentals, including this one, which suggests the luxury rental market is still strong. I don't have any reports to back this up, but I have to assume that Millennium does.

I'm guessing there will be some influences between the two markets. However, this wouldn't change the fact that setting the rent high may encourage existing properties to do the same. If demand or speculation is as strong as they say, overall prices will go up, not down. Speculation is the scarier of the two in which the price is based on the fact that the standard price for having great views, close to transportation, and shopping must be at a certain level, regardless if there's real demand or not.

 

[blinkieob]

Re: Filene's

I'm guessing there will be some influences between the two markets. However, this wouldn't change the fact that setting the rent high may encourage existing properties to do the same. If demand or speculation is as strong as they say, overall prices will go up, not down. Speculation is the scarier of the two in which the price is based on the fact that the standard price for having great views, close to transportation, and shopping must be at a certain level, regardless if there's real demand or not.

I think czsz was saying that rents in other areas would go down and rental inventory in Downtown Crossing would go up.

 

[choo]

Re: Filene's

I'm guessing there will be some influences between the two markets. However, this wouldn't change the fact that setting the rent high may encourage existing properties to do the same. If demand or speculation is as strong as they say, overall prices will go up, not down. Speculation is the scarier of the two in which the price is based on the fact that the standard price for having great views, close to transportation, and shopping must be at a certain level, regardless if there's real demand or not.

There are other units under construction, and the high rents should incentivize new builds and rehabs by setting a new level. No reason that building at the payless shoes can't get going if demand is proven, and that would be at a less of a rate.
I was down there the other day, and I think a great outcome would be Macy's signs on as a the tenant in a new upscale flagship and the Jordan Marsh site gets developed with a project of its own. I wonder if Millenium or anyone is discussing this.

Mostly, however, I bet this place is a corporate hotel for people to crash with their mistress. If you can afford $3.5k/month are you really going to want a 600sqft studio to be your full time residence?

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: Filene's

"But it’s unclear whether the development team is having any better time than Vornado Realty Trust (NYSE: VNO) in securing financing for the ambitious project."

I thought they did have the financing in place and when they made the announcement when Millennium's involvement was announced that they expected to (re) start construction in early 2013.

 

[blinkieob]

Re: Filene's

I was down there the other day, and I think a great outcome would be Macy's signs on as a the tenant in a new upscale flagship and the Jordan Marsh site gets developed with a project of its own. I wonder if Millenium or anyone is discussing this.

That would be amazing. I would welcome pretty much any change to that block. And I'd be totally fine with Millennium pretty much owning all of Downtown Crossing if this happened. But I'm not getting my hopes up. I don't imagine the Burnham could provide much of an upgrade to them anyway.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Filene's

Macy*s HAD the fcking opportunity in 2006 when they bought Filene's!!!! They occupied the Marshall Fields flagship, Famous Barr flagship, etc. They chose to stay in that shitty Jordan Marsh dump that really wasn't a historical homage to Jordan Marsh in the first place (had none of the original character) and sold the beautiful and historical Filene's to the city.

As you can see, I'm still bitter 6+ years later and tbh I don't think I'll ever get over it. I will never forgive Macy*s for what they did. They are single-handedly responsible for much of the urban blight of DTX past 2006.

To add insult to injury, Macy*s is maintaining the Jordan Marsh streetfronts very poorly with blacked out or empty windows and closed entrances. Those windows used to be filled with lavish displays and beautifully illuminated when Jordan Marsh was there. Now they are just dead, dark and blank.

akjfahgskjafklsdhfslkjfsd!!!!