Natick Mall Expansion

I've also seen the Natick Mall condos (which one can't commute to Boston via transit from) advertised on the T.
 
I don't object to the project, but I do object to the stupid name 'Natick Collection'. I believe it's possible to reach the mall from downtown via Peter Pan bus, but not by the T.
 
I believe it's possible to reach the mall from downtown via Peter Pan bus
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Actually I just made the stop on the way from New York; it's at the Logan Express across Route 30 from Shopper's World. Not exactly an inviting walk to the mall from there...

Do people from Framingham and Newton currently commute on the Peter Pan bus?
 
^^ Oh, all the time! It's the very chic thing to do nowadays. :wink:
 
It was a rhetorical question designed to make a point.
 
Yeah, I was agreeing with your point in a sarcastic/jokey way.

Obviously, the Framingham and Newton townfolk aren't heavy users of the 'Pan.
 
Although the T does actually subsidize a few rush-hour Peter Pan trips from Framingham, especially for commuters.
 
Malls make me sick. I like the facade of Neiman Marcus, but do they really need all the '70s glitter mall stuff hanging from the ceiling?
 
Kennedy, why do malls make you sick? People make that statement so much these days, especially on boards like this, where it is chic to like only the development in urban centers, and they usually don't give any reasons for it.

I have plenty of reasons to be wary around malls. They sap business from nearby town centers (as the Times article implies but does not state), they draw shoppers into cars and onto roads, adding to congestion and pollution. This mall, however, is far from the city, and far from nearby centers (comparatively). It is a regional destination, drawing from the whole MetroWest, and it features stores that usually aren't found in town centers anyway (when was the last time anyone saw a Teavana in the Wellesley Vil, though they do have a FYE).

The Natick Mall (I will call it that until I die) looks awesome from Speen Street, especially at night. Its developers chose to add architectural creativity and class to their design, even if it is not the best styling possible. Malls are full of stores that could not survive on their own outside of a shopping district like DTX, and Natick is plenty far enough away from DTX to avoid competition.

Bottom line: this is not a Walmart, and I don't believe it should be treated like one.
 
I don't object to the Natick Collection of Excessive Upscaliness, but the Times article completely failed to note the continued existence of downtown Natick.
 
^ Downtown Natick which, imo, is actually quite nice. There's always been stuff down there, there's even more stuff down there today, and the redevelopment of the area around the Morse Library is very nice. If there was a bar there, I'd move to downtown Natick in a heart beat.
 
The mall is on the outer fringe of Natick, about as far as you can get from downtown. Downtown Natick is lovely, but it also as removed as it is from the mall district and the "magnificent mile," it might not bear mention in an article about the mall project.
 
I used to live in downtown natick. the commuter rail station was handy and there were a couple of good restaurants. But you are right. It really needed a bar or 2 and it would have been great!
 
I used to live in Downtown Natick too. It sucked. It has good bones, but very few places to shop/eat/drink. I couple of good bars would and an indie theatre and downtown would be a major hit. Plus a shuttle to and from the mall :).
 
i lived on harvard st and enjoyed walking to the train or the Italian place. I don't remember the name . A real hole in the wall with excellent food. I don't know if it is still there. Then a decent seafood place came along. There were a lot of vacancies. a couple of bars would have livened it up. It sucked piling a bunch of friends into cars to just go out for a drink.
 
HAHAHAHAHA!! It gives me great satisfaction that this mall is failing, especially since Boston luxury shopping is still going strong.


Downscaled hopes for an upscale mall
The Natick Collection was envisioned as a destination for suburban shoppers searching for luxury goods, but sales at some high-end boutiques, some merchants say, are stagnating, and other stores are opting out of the mall altogether.

By Jenn Abelson, Globe Staff | May 4, 2008

NATICK - On a recent spring day, Neiman Marcus is a ghost town. Almost everything is on sale at Calvin Klein. Gucci has delayed its opening several times, and Italian designer Piazza Sempione has bailed on its lease entirely.

The highly anticipated Natick Collection, a suburban bastion of luxury shopping where some rents are higher than coveted Newbury Street, is off to a slow start, according to retail analysts, store owners, managers, and employees at more than a dozen stores.

Some merchants blame the weak traffic on a potential recession and anemic consumer spending. Indeed, across the country retailers are seeing fewer shoppers, shutting stores, or filing for bankruptcy as people pull back on discretionary spending and worry more about paying for basics like milk and gas.

Yet others say the problem may go even deeper, that high-end designers and top-notch fashion in the suburbs simply haven't caught on. Natick was supposed to be the next fashion frontier, debuting the state's first Nordstrom and first suburban Neiman Marcus as part of a multimillion-dollar 500,000-square-foot expansion that opened last fall.

But the hype has fallen short in this town 20 miles west of Boston. After a brisk holiday season, traffic has slowed, on some days, to a near standstill, merchants say. The older part of the mall, which features sta ples like Macy's and Gap, still sees a crush of shoppers on the weekends, they say. And while Nordstrom is popular, much of the vast new wing - with soaring skylights, concierge service, and fake birch trees - often remains empty.

"We had a rough winter," said Betty Riaz, owner of trendy boutique Stil, who pays upwards of $100 per square foot for the Natick store, which is more than her Newbury Street shop. "It's been quiet. Even if you have money, you may not have taste. We have to educate our customers on style. It's hard. I thought it would be easier in Natick."

General Growth Properties, which runs the mall, said it has not heard concerns about sluggish sales and that the slowdown in consumer spending and luxury shopping has not had an impact on the mall. Michael McNaughton, General Growth's vice president for asset management Northeast, said business at stores in the original part of the mall has "grown tremendously" since the expansion opened last fall, and that the new wing has exceeded expectations. But he declined to provide specific traffic or sales numbers.

McNaughton disputed the suggestion that Natick wasn't ready for high fashion, but added: "Not every retailer is for every customer."

In recent weeks, stores have stepped up promotions in an attempt to lure people into the luxury wing, where $3,000 Louis Vuitton bags and $500 shaving kits are plentiful. For the month of April, Neiman Marcus offered free Bellini cocktails every Saturday afternoon as part of a "Sip and Shop" event to showcase its designer handbags. Bright pink banners hung from the ceiling near Sears in the older section of the mall, beseeching customers: "Neiman Marcus. Go Back. Turn Right. Shop Fabulous."

Last month, Lululemon Athletica hosted "Zen Wednesday" outside Neiman Marcus, offering a free yoga class followed by tapas and juice elixirs served by the French restaurant Sel de la Terre. Two weeks ago, boutique Stil hosted a luncheon and fashion show in the middle of the mall.

Retail analysts say General Growth may have misread the demographics and overestimated the reach of the shopping center. While there is ample wealth in this region - the average household income is about $110,000, nearly double the state average - there is still a culture of buttoned-up Yankees who aren't accustomed to indulgent spending on luxury goods, according to Madison Riley, a retail analyst at Kurt Salmon Associates in Boston. And the younger moms paying attention to fashion are more likely to buy a Burberry blanket for their baby carriage than $350 designer jeans for themselves.

"There has been a culture in the Boston area of that Yankee thriftiness, even when one had money," Riley said. "That's changed in the city of Boston but the mentality still resides in the suburbs, and that is impacting Natick."

Boston, with its influx of tourists, wealthy empty-nesters, and stylish yuppies, has had better success proving its fashion sense, keeping busy new stores like Jimmy Choo and Gucci. Fashionistas on the North and South shores are also more likely to hit the Boston Neiman Marcus and the shops on Newbury, rather than head out to the western suburbs, according to Mike Tesler, president of Retail Concepts, a consultant firm in Norwell who was not involved in the project.

The combination of Gucci's multiple delays, the pullout of Piazza Sempione, and other vacancies in the new wing has worried some retailers about the future of the mall. Gucci would not comment on the reasons behind its delays, and Piazza Sempione would only confirm that it had backed out of the lease in Natick.

Tesler, who recently visited Natick Collection for a business lunch, said only three other cars were parked in the new premium lot, which charges $5 and is closer to the luxury wing. Over the five times he's visited the mall in recent months, the number of cars in the lot has decreased with each trip.

Several Neiman Marcus employees, not authorized to speak publicly to the Globe, complained of very slow sales and Neiman bosses instructing employees to make calls to the same customers two to three times a week to seek more business.

Retail analysts believe Natick will ultimately be successful, but it may take some time.

"At cocktail parties in Chicago, LA, and New York, they talk about fashion the way we talk about sports. The focus on fashion is less and less as you get out in the suburbs," Tesler said. "That is gradually changing, but there's some education and work to be done."

Paula Brennan, assistant store manager at The Art of Shaving, said the new section of the mall is pretty empty during the week, and even during busy weekends, people seem to be merely window shopping. The upscale shaving business has stayed afloat because of customers who work in the city, bought products at the Copley Place shop, and are looking for replenishments at the Natick store, near where they live.

Sel de La Terre partner Frank McClelland said his French restaurant has met expectations in Natick, but attributed the success to its regional reputation.

"We're more of a destination and not reliant on mall traffic as much as other retailers," McClelland said.

The economy certainly isn't helping Natick, with luxury retailers, once the pillar of strength, showing signs of lost momentum nationwide. Louis Constant, a salesman at Tommy Bahama, which sells high-end resort wear, said he blames slow business in Natick on customers being more conservative with their spending. Across the industry, sales at stores open at least a year have fallen recently at upscale merchants, including Saks Inc. and Nordstrom, which reported declines of 2.9 percent and 9.1 percent respectively.

But in Natick, department store Nordstrom is one of the exceptions. Retail analysts say the newness of Nordstrom - Natick was the first location in the state - along with its broad price points make it more accessible for shoppers, offering $1,200 Versace top coats and $30 T-shirts. Nordstrom spokesman Michael Boyd said the company has "been really pleased by the results we've had in Natick," but would not comment on whether sales had met or exceeded expectations.

Riaz, owner of boutique Stil, said she has followed Nordstrom's lead and changed the mix of her wares in Natick to include more lower-priced items over the past two months. She now sells T-shirt dresses for under $100 alongside her $800 dresses.

Nadia Nielsen, 21, of Wayland, recently had a dose of sticker shock after walking out of Neiman Marcus empty-handed. As she headed to the older part of the mall, Nielsen questioned the idea behind the upscale shopping experience.

"Out here in the suburbs, people are pretty casual," she said. "When you go to Whole Foods and wear heels, you feel too dressed up."

But the Natick Collection does have its hard-core loyalists, like 32-year-old Vivian Wexler.

"Yes, it's conspicuous consumption at its finest, and I am ashamed to admit that it rocked my world down to the core," Wexler said. "However, even if you're not a die-hard capitalist, you'll be astounded at how . . . convenient it is to go to one mall and be able to get your entire list of holiday gifts. They've got such a diversity of stores that it's mind-boggling."

But her last visit to Natick? December.

Jenn Abelson can be reached at abelson@globe.com.
 
We have to educate our customers on style. It's hard. I thought it would be easier in Natick
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Ouch, bad market research. But charging $5 for slightly closer parking at a mall lot is hilarious.
 
One of the most disjointed, awkward, weirdest articles Scotty has ever written...



After a rocky start, Natick?s urban oasis is taking root
Suburbanites, drawn by price cuts, trade lawns for high-rise living at mallBy Scott Van Voorhis, Globe Correspondent | August 26, 2010

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Dr. Michael Robinson fondly recalls his New York childhood, and says he never lost his love of city living despite decades as a suburban homeowner in Natick.

This spring, Robinson managed to return to his roots without leaving town, trading in his five-bedroom home for a three-bedroom, $544,000 penthouse condominium overlooking the Natick Collection.

As the real estate boom was going bust in 2008, the Nouvelle at Natick complex appeared to be in deep trouble. It opened amid the worst recession in generations, with some critics scoffing at the idea of a Boston-style condo tower in the heart of the Route 9 shopping district.

But after some tough early struggles and a big markdown in prices ? penthouses were originally on the market for well over $1 million ? the Nouvelle at last count had sold 152, or roughly 70 percent, of its 215 units.

Robinson, a podiatrist whose patients included Boston Bruins hockey players and members of the Boston Ballet, is one of a growing number of restless suburbanites who have found a sense of city at the Nouvelle.

For them, living in a building attached to one of New England?s largest malls is considered a plus, not a hassle.

?It?s kind of like a little urban oasis within a suburban situation,?? Robinson said.

The Nouvelle?s decision to slash prices ? in many cases by half or more ? was undoubtedly a selling point, note some new residents.

General Growth Properties had big plans back in 2006 when it launched an ambitious revamp of the aging Natick Mall into the upscale Natick Collection, capped by a 12-story luxury condo high-rise with prices mirroring those of downtown Boston.

Its penthouse units hit the market at $1.2 million to $1.6 million, while two-bed, two-bath condos ranged from more than $600,000 to $900,000, according to news accounts at the time, and sales records, along with original asking prices, compiled by a Boston brokerage firm, CondoDomain Inc.

Littleton-based PrimeTime Communities, which is marketing the property, declined to release the original price ranges for Nouvelle units, citing sensitivity for those who bought before the reductions.

But by last fall, a year after the high-rise opened, both the real estate market and the economy were spiraling downward, and extended sales efforts had succeeded in moving only a few dozen of the Nouvelle?s units.

General Growth responded by dumping its traditional unit-by-unit sales campaign, and hiring a marketing firm to auction dozens of units at greatly reduced prices.

The move kicked-started sales, with one penthouse unit that had been on the market for $1.6 million selling for about a third of its original figure.

Commenting that ?I enjoy real estate,?? Robinson said he had long kept an eye on the Nouvelle but was willing to wait for prices to drop, and recalled the original figures as ?rather lofty.??

?I thought this was a particularly good buy. In the long run, the building is going to hold its value extremely well,?? he said.

Not every cost associated with the complex has come down, with the Nouvelle retaining its original monthly condo fees; they range from $400-plus for a one-bedroom to $1,760 for a penthouse. Residents note that the fee covers everything but the electric bill.

Among at least some of its new owners, Nouvelle at Natick appears to have tapped into a desire for urban living among suburbanites tired of mowing sprawling lawns and maintaining big houses they no longer need. Living in a high-rise attached to the Natick Collection is considered a bonus, providing convenience and variety to everyday life.

The upscale mall, while not exactly an intrusive presence inside the well-insulated tower, is an inescapable fact of life at the Nouvelle. Its 1.2-acre garden on a sixth-floor rooftop nestles alongside the mall?s glass dome, which glows picturesquely at night, residents say.

But that?s just fine for some newly minted Nouvelle owners like Maria Babb, a vice president at Middlesex Savings Bank. Babb sold her 4,000-square-foot home in Hopkinton to buy a two-bedroom unit at the Nouvelle for $426,400, moving in last month.

Babb said she quickly became a big fan of her unusual next-door neighbor.

Late on the evening of moving day, Babb found herself surrounded by packing boxes and realizing she had not had any dinner. To her surprise, she found that one of her favorite haunts ? P.F. Chang?s ? was just a short walk away. All told, the round trip for dinner took just a half hour.

?I didn?t have to get in my car and drive anywhere,?? she recalled. ?I thought, ?This was great.? ??

Cynthia Maloney, a special education teacher in Sudbury, and her husband, Rich, have found a different use for the mall ? as an indoor recreation center.

During the winter, the Maloneys take a 3-mile walk through the mall. (Nouvelle residents have 24-hour access to the mall through a hidden door leading onto the second floor.)

The Maloneys sold their Sudbury home to buy, at a steep markdown, a Nouvelle unit that was once listed for more than $1.5 million.

No more need to jump in the car for a shopping trip, Cynthia Maloney said. ?You would never know that there was a mall attached, except when your iron breaks and you can run to Sears and get another one in five minutes.??

For his part Robinson, the New York native, is struck by the many choices he has within a short walk, both at the mall and in the surrounding retail district.

The AMC Framingham cinema multiplex is within a 15-minute walk, as is a bus depot with service to Boston and Logan Airport. He?s also counted 20 places to eat at the Collection, from Dunkin? Donuts to the Cheesecake Factory.

?It?s almost like walking into Disneyland,?? he said.

Still, for all its convenience, the mall lacks one essential, notes Dennis Callahan, who moved into a seventh-floor unit with his wife, Sandy, in January.

?The only thing that is missing is a grocery store,?? said Callahan, who works in financial services.

And some residents say they tire of the perception among friends and colleagues that they literally live at a mall.

?When I say where I live, a lot of people will say ?Oh, how is it living at the mall?? ?? notes Adam Rogers, who bought an 11th-floor penthouse with his partner, Sean Martin. ?I don?t think I live at the mall. If I don?t walk into the mall, it?s irrelevant to me.??

For others, the Nouvelle complex provides its share of urban stimulation ? and a newfound sense of community as well.

Joon-Seok Oh, who works in research and development, recently moved to the area from Japan with his wife and 2-year-old daughter.

He found a comfort level in the Nouvelle?s urban, high-rise feel, which is more like Asian living than the typical American single-family home, he said.

Oh, who is Korean, also believes he scored a deal, with his $374,000, three-bedroom unit assessed by the town at more than $600,000.

?In Korea and Japan, they don?t have as many single-family homes,?? Oh noted. ?The land is very small compared to America. I wanted my family to feel more comfortable.??

For his part, Martin enjoys the views from their penthouse?s broad windows, with the hills and trees in the distance more compelling than the mall below. The sunsets and sunrises are spectacular, he said.

The software salesman also likes to recline on a couch on the unit?s narrow terrace, which overlooks the JC Penny store.

After renting for several years in Natick, Martin and Rogers say, they have found much more of a neighborhood feel than they ever experienced in the suburbs. They bought the 1,900-square-foot unit, originally on the market for $1.2 million, for $545,000.

?I feel more connected here in this building with my neighbors than any other establishment I have lived in,?? Martin said. ?I haven?t lived in a high-rise on the 11th floor like we do today. I would do it again in a heartbeat.??
 
What a totally unfathomable living situation. How can these people enjoy their terrace view of the mall parking lot? They could have the same situation in the city, perhaps in one of the Pru buildings of something adjacent to Copley Place or the Cambridgeside Galleria if the mall thing is so attractive to them. But a small condo in a highrise at a suburban mall that they need to drive to access? Sounds like the worst of all worlds.

I mean, this is really common in Europe or Asia, but in the US, you don't have to settle for a condo surrounded by concrete if you really want to live in suburbia. And you don't have to settle for a view of mall parking lots if you want a highrise condo.
 
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