Natick Mall Expansion

I would take Ocean Ave in Revere to look at the water before choosing a mall and asphalt view any day. (can't say much for the neighborhood feel though)

Question though. I know there was a recent article regarding a tax hit by the town. Wouldn't the residents still have to pay taxes on the assessed value anyway? If so, great to get a good deal on the unit, but you still end up paying taxes on an over-assessed turd...?
 
You'd file for an abatement, and have a pretty good case. Most communities do a property revaluation every couple of years. The valuation for all the units is likely to drop quite a bit in the next reval, notwithstanding the higher, older non-auction sale prices.

Intuitively you'd think that if property values are declining, municipalities would take a tax hit. Not so, because as assessments fall, tax rates (expressed as a dollar amount per $1000 of assessed value) go up. So there is a certain equilibrium.

Municipalities aren't in trouble because of property tax declines (a decline that, generally speaking, doesn't exist). They are in trouble because property tax hasn't fully funded municipal services in the 30 years since the adoption of Prop 2 1/2. Historically, state aid ("local aid") made up the difference between property tax revenue and actual municipal costs. Now that the state is broke, it can't cover the gap because it can't fund local aid. So municipalities are in trouble. (And you will see proposals like casino gambling and legalized medical marijuana clinics gain traction on the promise that the municipalities will wet their beaks by tying some of the new revenue streams to a promised increase in local aid.)

Some time ago I posted Toby's theorem of pendulum development, which explains such phenomena as the Liberty Mutual addition and the City Council's comments thereon. A factor I think I omitted (I couldn't find the post) was the role of "new growth" in municipal finance. Municipalities are initially allowed to tax new growth outside the limits of Prop 2 1/2. For at least the first year, it is like free money. This is part of the ineluctable law of economics and self interest that underpins the theorem, factors that cause councillors to say complimentary things about undeserving proposals.

Sorry to digress....
 
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Sounds interesting, Toby - please repost your theorem if you ever find it...
 
and then say something funny. That was a far too "sober"ing post from you Toby.

Also, if I read that post right... these were not owners of "small" condos who were loving it. Not that I would like to live there either. Especially with $400-$1500 condo fees. I left my only condo ever when the fee exceeded 200 bills a month.
 
I read that article and was hit by conflicting feelings of horror and hilarity.
"a different use for the mall ? as an indoor recreation center."
"20 places to eat at the Collection, from Dunkin? Donuts to the Cheesecake Factory."
?It?s almost like walking into Disneyland,?? he said.
"The software salesman also likes to recline on a couch on the unit?s narrow terrace, which overlooks the JC Penny store."

In the future we will all be forced to live at the mall. Do developers pay the Globe to run "stories" like this?
 
"a different use for the mall ? as an indoor recreation center."
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People have been 'mall walking' for many years. It makes sense in the wintertime if you want to take a reasonably long exercise walk without braving snow, sleet, ice, or sub-freezing cold. (Though I'd pick the Copley-Prudential complex over Natick for this.)
 
Joe_Schmoe said:
In the future we will all be forced to live at the mall.
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Several of my clients, I, and employees already do this. We work out of a Panera with wifi, and we're descendants of Mahler, Kafka and Dr. Johnson.

I've been dealing with a guy from Now Orleans for years; his cell-phone soundtrack is clanking dishes.
 
What I found interesting about the article was the owners praising how "everything they needed was a short walk away." No need to drive to the cheesecake factory, or nordtrom!

Why, it's almost like living in the city!

Of course nobody accuses the residents of the Avalon tower of living in the mall, which they are essentially doing.
 
ablarc said:
Several of my clients, I, and employees already do this. We work out of a Panera with wifi, and we're descendants of Mahler, Kafka and Dr. Johnson.

I've been dealing with a guy from Now Orleans for years; his cell-phone soundtrack is clanking dishes.
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Some people have tried doing this at the Buttery, although I think management got tired of them tying up limited space all day over buying the smallest coffee available. There is at least one architect in town I know whose office is a different Starbucks location every day of the week. According to her no client has really caught on in the past two years.
 
czsz said:
Sorry, guys, the era of free wireless and unlimited seating in cafes is coming to a close... (wonder how long Starbucks' contretemps will last):

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/dining/25coffee.html
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Looks great.

I never understood the business model behind letting people take a table for 5 hours and buy a single drink.

Further, how social is a coffee place when 95% of the people have headphones and are typing?
 
I get the "it's a shitty business model" thing, but I don't see why cafes need, necessarily, to be social.

And even if they did, the emerging thought that stand-up coffee bars will be more social than sit-down cafes is pure bullshit. How in-depth of a conversation can you have leaning against a counter? It's just a profit-maximizing move designed to cram in as many customers as possible.
 
czsz said:
I get the "it's a shitty business model" thing, but I don't see why cafes need, necessarily, to be social.

And even if they did, the emerging thought that stand-up coffee bars will be more social than sit-down cafes is pure bullshit. How in-depth of a conversation can you have leaning against a counter? It's just a profit-maximizing move designed to cram in as many customers as possible.
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Its easier to start up a conversation with someone looking out the window than someone looking into a laptop with headphones.

And whats wrong with having more customers? It's a business, if people want an office, thats why we have libraries.
 
czsz said:
I get the "it's a shitty business model" thing, but I don't see why cafes need, necessarily, to be social.

And even if they did, the emerging thought that stand-up coffee bars will be more social than sit-down cafes is pure bullshit. How in-depth of a conversation can you have leaning against a counter? It's just a profit-maximizing move designed to cram in as many customers as possible.
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Change the word counter to bar, and think about the deep philosophical, hours long, conversations held over a Lowenbrau or a glass of scotch. This is not a new idea, just one with coffee that won't work as well. Maybe if they served Irish coffee....
 
jass said:
Looks great.

I never understood the business model behind letting people take a table for 5 hours and buy a single drink.

Further, how social is a coffee place when 95% of the people have headphones and are typing?
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But isn't that the whole point of Starbucks? Give people a sense of community without the obligations of having to actively participate in the community.
 
Arborway said:
That's modern suburbia.
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ZING!

I noticed that my local Starbucks has a bar in front of the prep area. I always thought it was a unique set up and due to the fact that it's a larger Starbucks than your typical location (like the one three blocks away - there are 120 Starbucks locations in the city of Toronto alone!). That said, the bar is usually not used partially because it's where all the people waiting for their drinks are milling. Usually, if someone is sitting, they're waiting for their drink and they go.

Personally, I don't see what's wrong with offering both. Maybe cutting back on tables and chairs to include a bar, but not getting rid of the tables completely. Why can't there be a 'grey' solution?
 
Arborway said:
That's modern suburbia.
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what are you basing that on? In my own experience (18 years in the suburbs followed by 14 in the urbs) suburbanites were far more entrenched in their communities, knew their neighbors, were actively engaged in what was going on in their community. Not that that added up to much, I'd never move back, but to think that the typical person living in the North End or (pick your urban neighborhood) is somehow really plugged into the community is out of touch with reality, or the reality that I've known anyway. If anything living in a dense environment gives you a condition-less sense of community, you have enough neighbors that you can pick the one or two you will talk to and be able to live anonymously among the rest.
 
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