New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

[datadyne007]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Looking at the map, though, this is super isolated. even between southie, south end and south station. Go to north station area on a non-event night and check those bars out. Empty and it is infinitely more accessible and surrounded then some sports bars would be here. The parking isn't bad covering train tracks and ramps and a tow lot. Plus, Southie and south end are close enough you can have a cool march from the neighborhood through the parking lot, picking up people, and into the stadium.

True. A less intense March to the Match like Seattle does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKz4ak1IoZ0

 

[sm89]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

It's not just the BTD Tow Lot and Enforcement Headquarters, it's also one of Public Works' main yards and hosts the maintenance division for the city's entire vehicle fleet. Their building was renovated a year or two ago and the city is currently constructing new buildings here for Public Works' operations. Where are they proposing to relocate such a huge, important operations base to?

I will say though, it would be nice to get the Tow Lot closer to transit if possible, since, you know, people don't have their cars to get there...

And why is there so much parking? I thought the whole point of it being in the city was so that it's fans, who also live in the city, can easily get there. It should have no more parking than Fenway has.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

It's not just the BTD Tow Lot and Enforcement Headquarters, it's also one of Public Works' main yards and hosts the maintenance division for the city's entire vehicle fleet. Their building was renovated a year or two ago and the city is currently constructing new buildings here for Public Works' operations. Where are they proposing to relocate such a huge, important operations base to?

Some early Allston interchange plans showed a potential replacement DPW lot. I hope that's not the choice, though.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

It's not just the BTD Tow Lot and Enforcement Headquarters, it's also one of Public Works' main yards and hosts the maintenance division for the city's entire vehicle fleet. Their building was renovated a year or two ago and the city is currently constructing new buildings here for Public Works' operations. Where are they proposing to relocate such a huge, important operations base to?

I will say though, it would be nice to get the Tow Lot closer to transit if possible, since, you know, people don't have their cars to get there...

And why is there so much parking? I thought the whole point of it being in the city was so that it's fans, who also live in the city, can easily get there. It should have no more parking than Fenway has.

You're assuming that the BRA actually talks to every city department before it publicly proposes to upset their well-made plans.

If they rarely bother to do that when it comes to state property, why start now when it's 'just' the lowly BTD.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Some early Allston interchange plans showed a potential replacement DPW lot. I hope that's not the choice, though.

This is the most transit-accessible replacement parcel to move it to...if they remember that towed car = no-car/¡must use T!.

Which is admittedly kind of hard to remember when you've got a personal driver chauffering you between meetings.

 

[Equilibria]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

This is the most transit-accessible replacement parcel to move it to...if they remember that towed car = no-car/¡must use T!.

Which is admittedly kind of hard to remember when you've got a personal driver chauffering you between meetings.

Does it need to be ground-level, or for that matter publicly-owned? Could BTD rent a floor of a parking garage somewhere? That would actually make more sense, since you could completely enclose it and eliminate the need for razor wire.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

Does it need to be ground-level, or for that matter publicly-owned? Could BTD rent a floor of a parking garage somewhere? That would actually make more sense, since you could completely enclose it and eliminate the need for razor wire.

Could be. I just don't have a count off the top of my head of such places within a couple-block, dead-obvious radius of a T stop. You pretty much are limited to the more bombed-out parts of Dorchester around Andrew and JFK for land that's not going to be a royal pain to lease/acquire. And that's assuming the BRA doesn't mess with the shortlist of Plan B's too.

It is an accessibility issue. You don't want to be telling some elderly person who got their car towed that they have to get off here, hang a left here for 2 blocks, then a right here. Much less explain the transit and fare-transfer gymnastics of reaching Beacon Park. The BTD phone lines would be jammed all day with frustrated people asking directions. It's gotta be...bam!...right there.

 

[FK4]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I'd rather see it built on the North Shore. I think the soccer fan base (Brasilians, many Spanish-speaking communities) and jobs needs would both do better up there than right near downtown Boston. I suppose it's very close to a lot of transit, but Suffolk Downs or Sullivan/Assembly are well-served as well. I also think the needs of the people of Boston - a permanent homeless shelter and detox units - should trump some stupid stadium. Sorry - I don't get why how it's in any way social justice to force homeless people who spend their days downtown to sit for hours on buses to get to Long Island. This site should be repurposed for that. Put the stadium where the soccer fans and high unemployement levels are.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I'd rather see it built on the North Shore. I think the soccer fan base (Brasilians, many Spanish-speaking communities) and jobs needs would both do better up there than right near downtown Boston. I suppose it's very close to a lot of transit, but Suffolk Downs or Sullivan/Assembly are well-served as well. I also think the needs of the people of Boston - a permanent homeless shelter and detox units - should trump some stupid stadium. Sorry - I don't get why how it's in any way social justice to force homeless people who spend their days downtown to sit for hours on buses to get to Long Island. This site should be repurposed for that. Put the stadium where the soccer fans and high unemployement levels are.

This.

I think placing the stadium at Suffolk Downs is the best idea for both that site and for Kraft. In between the stadium and the Blue Line, Kraft can have a mixed-use Revolution Village. The stadium would be a nice buffer between the gas tanks and the "village." Two stops to serve the stadium and development. Huge Hispanic and Brazilian populations in Eastie, Chelsea, Everett, Revere, and Lynn. A bit out of reach for Somerville, but I think we've already long passed peak-Braz in Somerville.

 

[tmac9wr]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Yea, I'd say the North Shore is the best location too for the reasons already listed. However, I'd love to see it in a more urban area--perhaps near NorthPoint or Assembly Square? Then it'd be right on the Orange Line and relatively close to the Green Line too.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

This.

I think placing the stadium at Suffolk Downs is the best idea for both that site and for Kraft. In between the stadium and the Blue Line, Kraft can have a mixed-use Revolution Village. The stadium would be a nice buffer between the gas tanks and the "village." Two stops to serve the stadium and development. Huge Hispanic and Brazilian populations in Eastie, Chelsea, Everett, Revere, and Lynn. A bit out of reach for Somerville, but I think we've already long passed peak-Braz in Somerville.

Suffolk Downs really feels right for the stadium -- I have to admit.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I agree that the stadium should really be somewhere on the North Shore on the Blue Line. I'm not thrilled by this location at all. It's literally just plopping a stadium in the middle of a wasteland in S Boston. That said, if it's what we get, I'll be happy we at least got it.

Edit: See below. I had a change of heart after some thought about this.

 

[underground]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

It's literally just plopping a stadium in the middle of a wasteland in S Boston.

5 min walk to JJ Foley's. 5 min walk to bars in Southie. 15 min walk to South Station. Sorry, but I rather hang around this "wasteland" pregame than Suffolk Downs where a 5 min walk gets you to a marsh, a tank farm, and residential neighborhoods.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

5 min walk to JJ Foley's. 5 min walk to bars in Southie. 15 min walk to South Station. Sorry, but I rather hang around this "wasteland" pregame than Suffolk Downs.

Fair. I need to snap out of the Patriot Place vibe I've gotten used to. I always envisioned the stadium as part of a larger master planned district; though Red Bull Arena's horrific failed master plan is all the reason not to do that now that I think of it. I guess the stadium really should just be on its own and the local bars should fill the demand for restaurants and bars instead of manufacturing a fake district with chain restaurants and such. Good points.

 

[fattony]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Fair. I need to snap out of the Patriot Place vibe I've gotten used to. I always envisioned the stadium as part of a larger master planned district; though Red Bull Arena's horrific failed master plan is all the reason not to do that now that I think of it. I guess the stadium really should just be on its own and the local bars should fill the demand for restaurants and bars instead of manufacturing a fake district with chain restaurants and such. Good points.

+1

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

For reference, this is what Red Bull Arena has looked like since it was built in 2010.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

5 min walk to JJ Foley's. 5 min walk to bars in Southie. 15 min walk to South Station. Sorry, but I rather hang around this "wasteland" pregame than Suffolk Downs where a 5 min walk gets you to a marsh, a tank farm, and residential neighborhoods.

Precisely. This isn't a wasteland, so much as a dead spot between two otherwise vibrant neighborhoods. I won't pretend that this repairs the damage done by the Expressway, but it certainly places the stadium near a lot more pre and post game activities than the Suffolk Downs location. It is also far better transit wise, having Red and Silver Lines, a reasonable walk to the Orange and Commuter Rail lines, and a fairly large walking distance population. East Boston has some significant merits, but in my opinion, Suffolk Downs is far more of a dead zone than this proposed location.

 

[stick n move]

Re: Somerville Soccer Stadium

You know what?

Never mind. It isn't worth it.

I'm just going to leave you all with this thought instead of the angry post I was originally going to write: none of you have any guarantee that this isn't just going to be a bait-and-switch for a Gillette Stadium replacement. The complete control that Kraft has over the burgeoning "lifestyle center" in Foxboro doesn't even begin to cover the difference relative to what he could be pulling down from a lifestyle center accessible to the entire urban core, and the Revolution will never be able to sell out a 60,000 or 70,000 or 80,000 seat stadium the way the Patriots can and do. The amount of parking proposed is more than enough space to satisfy the tailgating requirement, and the Krafts will be able to charge $50+ per space 365 days a year, instead of 8.

I don't even like football (either football), and I'd rather see zero new stadiums built, but from a simple business/math perspective there's simply no reason to waste valuable downtown real estate on a 20,000 seat "soccer-specific" stadium if you're Bob Kraft and you control both franchises and you have at least four times the raw earning potential if you build the 80,000 seat NFL stadium instead. Modern NFL stadiums have a life expectancy of about 30 years - Gillette is due for replacement on a time table that lines up quite nicely with the time table for working through the political and engineering challenges associated with this particular parcel.

I'd be stunned, honestly stunned, if this turned into a soccer stadium. I expect that it's going to mutate into Gillette 2.0, and the Krafts will finally get their downtown Boston stadium that they wanted for Gillette 1.0. Remember, it was only NIMBY opposition to the South Boston proposal that sent "the Pats" out of town the first time.

25 years from now, while the Patriots are celebrating their moving in to their new digs within spitting distance of South Station, we'll all still be arguing over a Somerville Soccer Stadium and I bet a few of the more devoted fans in this thread are going to be shaking their heads over what a massive injustice it is that the second-string soccer franchise is still a road team on their own home field that belongs to the Patriots first and forever.

I'm done with this thread. Good luck to everyone still posting here and I hope you all have fun dreaming about the new soccer stadium, but please do consider what I've said here.

Sorry but after the extreme amount of money put into Gillette Stadium and Patriots Place along with the fact that this is going to hold about half of the people that a football stadium would theres about a 0% chance that is going to happen here. This is honestly the perfect location for this, its close to the city in a spot thats not really in the street grid surrounded by a highway and train tracks, that means good transit options for the stadium and a bad neighborhood to build buildings in. This is a huge win if it happens.

 

[kingofsheeba]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I don't see how this is necessarily the worst location out there.


What I am befuddled about is the fact that an MLS stadium in South Boston is kosher, and placing the Pats and the Sox in the Seaport was so sacrilegious.

And if anyone says "well, a 30,000 seat soccer stadium compared to a 65,000 football stadium," then I'll know that they're just deflecting. What is it about the Revs playing in the Seaport that almost nobody (at least on BDC) is arguing about?

There's actually more animosity over where the Revs play right here on archboston, than on BDC.


Definitely bizarro world...

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

What is it about the Revs playing in the Seaport that almost nobody (at least on BDC) is arguing about?

The Seaport had a master plan that was supposed to create a large urban neighborhood. A stadium (especially of NFL size) there would have completely ruined that. NFL stadiums require massive expanses of surface parking for tailgating. Most soccer fans don't feel the need to do that. We just drink at a bar then go to the game. At the time, the Seaport was filled with surface lots which all probably would have remained if the stadium was actually built there. It's debatable how the Seaport actually turned out (see the current discussion in the Seaport thread), but the Seaport had way more potential for urban development than the site they just chose in South Boston (not the Seaport).